Ground development

[al_bro]

I'm copying this article in from the Telegraph.

 

Residential building land, one of the core assets of most housebuilders, plummeted in value by 20pc in the first six months of the year and could fall by up to 50pc before the current slump is over.

 

Research by estate agent Savills shows the value of brownfield sites, down 19.8pc, and greenfield sites, down 22.5pc, fell by roughly four times the rate of the housing market as investors deserted the sector.

 

With development land a key part of most housebuilders' asset bases, the valuations will be a major concern for the struggling sector.

 

This does not look good as far as redevlopment of Boundary Park goes. The price of the land is dropping fast, whilst construction prices are rising. Can the sale of the land ever pay for the building work which TTA has planned? I doubt it, and therefore scaling back will no doubt have to occur.

 

I think TTA made a big mistake in demolishing the Lookers stand before money was available to rebuild. We face a three sided ground with capacity of just over 10,000 (unless the police cut it) for years to come. This would be a disastrous loss of revenue in the Championship.

[ghostofcecere]

I'm copying this article in from the Telegraph.

 

Residential building land, one of the core assets of most housebuilders, plummeted in value by 20pc in the first six months of the year and could fall by up to 50pc before the current slump is over.

 

Research by estate agent Savills shows the value of brownfield sites, down 19.8pc, and greenfield sites, down 22.5pc, fell by roughly four times the rate of the housing market as investors deserted the sector.

 

With development land a key part of most housebuilders' asset bases, the valuations will be a major concern for the struggling sector.

 

This does not look good as far as redevlopment of Boundary Park goes. The price of the land is dropping fast, whilst construction prices are rising. Can the sale of the land ever pay for the building work which TTA has planned? I doubt it, and therefore scaling back will no doubt have to occur.

 

I think TTA made a big mistake in demolishing the Lookers stand before money was available to rebuild. We face a three sided ground with capacity of just over 10,000 (unless the police cut it) for years to come. This would be a disastrous loss of revenue in the Championship.

Totally agree with this. I think we are looking at a Micah Richards sale now to get this new Main Stand built otherwise I just can't see anything happening for a few years with the ground.

[garcon]

All things considered, I think demolishing the Lookers was probably the right thing to do. There is no overstating the drain it had become in terms of day to day maintenance.

 

Yes, hopefully, we'll be in the Championship very soon. But even then, I don't see our reduced capacity being a limiting factor in more than a handful of games.

 

It was a bit of a risk, and it looks like we've been unlucky in terms of timiing. We might be 3 sided for a while, but at least the physical fact of the stand demolition shows intent - and seems to have silenced those who were convinced the whole redevelopment plan was nothing more than a paper/virtual reality pipedream.

[ghostofcecere]

................and seems to have silenced those who were convinced the whole redevelopment plan was nothing more than a paper/virtual reality pipedream.

Well TBH I'm not sure it has, can we really be sure it isn't until a brick is layed????

[Diego_Sideburns]

Well TBH I'm not sure it has, can we really be sure it isn't until a brick is layed????

 

That's what keeping the Faith is all about.

[fleetwood Blue]

That's what keeping the Faith is all about.

 

swap Wolfy for a pallet of bricks and a bag of cement theres a start.

[BigfinLatic]

swap Wolfy for a pallet of bricks and a bag of cement theres a start.

 

 

... and JP for a spade, and get Thommo re-trained as a brickie as part of his rehab!

 

Back on the topic, its annoying, but we always knew this would be the case... what is the best option? Had we dont this a year earlier we may currently be in a position with a load of unsellable flats and a half built ground, and even more up proverbial creek without a paddle...

 

For me, we have done exactly the right thing, knocked down a massive drain on our resources in a decrepit stand, and the plans in place to improve the ground when the time is right...

 

I simply cannot believe the 10,000 capacity is a major worry on income, even in the championship we would get no-where near that on a regular basis... the lack of hospitality revenue is a blow, but we have save money with knocking down the lookers...

 

Have faith, we will get there... however, I could see a new plan being thought up... if we were simply to build a smaller stand, with the hospitality infrasturucture, then i'm sure it would do us just fine.... and reduced houses would pay for it...

[Blue_Guru]

 

... and JP for a spade, and get Thommo re-trained as a brickie as part of his rehab!

 

Back on the topic, its annoying, but we always knew this would be the case... what is the best option? Had we dont this a year earlier we may currently be in a position with a load of unsellable flats and a half built ground, and even more up proverbial creek without a paddle...

 

For me, we have done exactly the right thing, knocked down a massive drain on our resources in a decrepit stand, and the plans in place to improve the ground when the time is right...

 

I simply cannot believe the 10,000 capacity is a major worry on income, even in the championship we would get no-where near that on a regular basis... the lack of hospitality revenue is a blow, but we have save money with knocking down the lookers...

 

Have faith, we will get there... however, I could see a new plan being thought up... if we were simply to build a smaller stand, with the hospitality infrasturucture, then i'm sure it would do us just fine.... and reduced houses would pay for it...

 

The main problem is that he planning permission is only valid for 3 years...if no progress is made then the validation expires and we would have to go through the whole process again. With the demolition of the lookers stand that has removed the barrier on that application and im guessing the demolition of the clayton arms has removed the time barrier on the application for the chaddy and main stand. We could theoretically lay one brick a month and this may be seen as progress...

[martjs]

- and seems to have silenced those who were convinced the whole redevelopment plan was nothing more than a paper/virtual reality pipedream.

 

That reminds me, where is the Corp these days...

[brad]

we could sell a player and get a good cup run get a thew bob from that and lets home that Micah richards would be sold for around 30 million don't care if he goes to man.u and thats where the money would come i cant see all that happening

[boboafc]

we could sell a player and get a good cup run get a thew bob from that and lets home that Micah richards would be sold for around 30 million don't care if he goes to man.u and thats where the money would come i cant see all that happening

lets all hope and pray that scity have a bad season and hughes gets the sack and scity get knocked out of all the cups early ,and with their chairman sent back to thailand scity will then have to sell micah to balance the books ,heres hoping

[Harry Dowds Green Shirt]

The main problem is that he planning permission is only valid for 3 years...if no progress is made then the validation expires and we would have to go through the whole process again. With the demolition of the lookers stand that has removed the barrier on that application and im guessing the demolition of the clayton arms has removed the time barrier on the application for the chaddy and main stand. We could theoretically lay one brick a month and this may be seen as progress...

 

The Housing market is current going through a blip or as some are calling it a correction. However, the reports published in the last few weeks, are suggesting strong growth in house prices over the next 5 years. Although we are seeing a fall in prices this year and falls may continue into next year, over the next 5 years prices are forecast to rise 23%.

 

Once the "blip" or "correction" is over, the basic problem within the housing market will remain. That is there is and will remain a shortage of housing. A net 3,000,000 new houses over and above those replacing demolished houses need to be built over the next 10 years to meet demand. Once the banks get their heads out of their backsides and start lending to each other again and mortgages become more freely available, house prices will start "creeping up" again.

 

So whilst the club & TTA have a short term problem in selling the land and therefore funding the stadium redevelopment, this will ease over the next 18 months to 2 years allowing the land to be sold and redevelopment to start (unless of course City sell Micah in the meantime) TTA will need to be patient until things improve, but once they do, the big boys, i.e. Barretts, Redrow, Persimmon etc will be falling over themselves for sites like BP and TTA should still get the money they were expecting.

 

Also don't expect to see nearly 700 apartments to be built around the ground. It will not happen. The housing industry has seen that multiple tall blocks of apartments are no longer the in thing. (Just go round Manchester and see the number of unsold new apartment blocks) I expect to see a mix of houses and smaller blocks of apartments with some 350-400 units being built instead.

 

 

With regard to the 3 year time limit on the planning permission, this only applies on the new Broadway stand. The rest of the site was only an outline consent and therefore there is a 3 year time limit to submit for the detailed consent and then a further 2 year period to start that part of the redevelopment. In any event, the principle of the redevelopment has been established and even if consent were to run out, any application to renew would be difficult to refuse unless there was a major change in circumstances, which because of the nature of the surrounding area is highly unlikely. The council would treat the demoilition of the Broadway stand, Clayton Arms etc as "enabling works" and not the start of development work so the 3 year period to start the work is still running.

 

In the meantime our 3 sided ground needs to be made to work to our advantage. It will be interesting to see what sort of atmosphere we have this week without the Millwall mob.

[losesome]

I'm copying this article in from the Telegraph.

 

Residential building land, one of the core assets of most housebuilders, plummeted in value by 20pc in the first six months of the year and could fall by up to 50pc before the current slump is over.

 

Research by estate agent Savills shows the value of brownfield sites, down 19.8pc, and greenfield sites, down 22.5pc, fell by roughly four times the rate of the housing market as investors deserted the sector.

 

With development land a key part of most housebuilders' asset bases, the valuations will be a major concern for the struggling sector.

 

This does not look good as far as redevlopment of Boundary Park goes. The price of the land is dropping fast, whilst construction prices are rising. Can the sale of the land ever pay for the building work which TTA has planned? I doubt it, and therefore scaling back will no doubt have to occur.

 

I think TTA made a big mistake in demolishing the Lookers stand before money was available to rebuild. We face a three sided ground with capacity of just over 10,000 (unless the police cut it) for years to come. This would be a disastrous loss of revenue in the Championship.

 

It has not stopped Blackpool from progressing and they only had 2 and a bit stands.

Capacity problems would be a nice problem to have !!!!!!!

[BlueJazzer]

... and JP for a spade

 

Thats shockin!!!!!!!!!!! Hope that was an oversight!!

[dish]

the lookers will never ever get rebuilt

[Diego_Sideburns]

the lookers will never ever get rebuilt

 

Please tell us why.

[OldhamSheridan]

Please tell us why.

 

Because we'll overspend, get relegated, the housing market will continue to collapse thus making the land worthless, the banking system will fail, inflation will reach Zimbabwe proportions, China will invade in the moment of opportunity (and now owning all the weapons in the World), ban football, flatten all stadiums and enslave us all as workers (including the now poor footballers). Sobviouslike.

[Diego_Sideburns]

Because we'll overspend, get relegated, the housing market will continue to collapse thus making the land worthless, the banking system will fail, inflation will reach Zimbabwe proportions, China will invade in the moment of opportunity (and now owning all the weapons in the World), ban football, flatten all stadiums and enslave us all as workers (including the now poor footballers). Sobviouslike.

 

Yeah, I realise all of that, but I thought dish might know something we don't know.

[LaticsPete]

Yeah, I realise all of that, but I thought dish might know something we don't know.

 

Probably got the word from Corp Jones!

[Diego_Sideburns]

I know, let's build the new stadium three miles from the town centre, with nowhere to park and devise a travel plan involving free shuttle buses from Mumps station.

[garcon]

I know, let's build the new stadium three miles from the town centre, with nowhere to park and devise a travel plan involving free shuttle buses from Mumps station.

Surely no-one would ever be that daft...

[BP1960]

Because we'll overspend, get relegated, the housing market will continue to collapse thus making the land worthless, the banking system will fail, inflation will reach Zimbabwe proportions, China will invade in the moment of opportunity (and now owning all the weapons in the World), ban football, flatten all stadiums and enslave us all as workers (including the now poor footballers). Sobviouslike.

 

And that's the optimistic view

[losesome]

the lookers will never ever get rebuilt

 

well i think you may be right for a few years anyway.

With land prices dropping and current capacity enough for any league games then i think it will be a few years before work starts.

 

Should have left it until land sale and everything else was agreed ,

or sue the useless council for dragging their heels for 2 years over the plans.

[Diego_Sideburns]

well i think you may be right for a few years anyway.

With land prices dropping and current capacity enough for any league games then i think it will be a few years before work starts.

 

Should have left it until land sale and everything else was agreed ,

or sue the useless council for dragging their heels for 2 years over the plans.

 

"A few years" is not the same as "never ever"!

 

The "land sale and everything else" could not be agreed until planning permission was granted, and suing the useless council is not an option.

[Eddie_m'gurk]

I love people who have no clue about a situation and feel the need to push their high powered opinion on other people when they are not a expert in finance or development. TTA are not daft, and TBH if I was them I would only constuct a new stand when they feel the time is right. And lets be totally honest, the ground is not bursting at the seems and even with promotion 10,000 could be catered for. Doom and gloom , cool your jets!!