So ... What now?

[Guest oa_exile]

Fair do, apologies for my part in hijacking your point!

 

No problem at all , also this has been done to death on here many times now , but of course Corp just wants to keep raising the same old points , it's like copy and paste and brings nothing new on a discussion point(s).

Hence my initial post of response which some picked up on

[bpmarko]

My "Point" earlier is that we have made ground improvements steadily over the years , in fact we have spent a fare few bob or two actually over the years on all the four sides of BP.

My point is the Corp has decided to forget about the past and concentrate on now which we all know is not fault of the Club, which is losing money and has been as long as I can remember.

 

And back at your point, I think 'sit tight' should be the order of the day. We need get as much dosh as we can for the land, which means waiting for the economy to turn round, and also we still can't fill the reduced capacity we have anyway, except for maybe two games a season.

Only problem is, if when we get promoted this season, we'll have at least one season in the championship, seeing vital revenue go blowing in the wind whilst get the building done. Don't see a way round that one though.

 

 

 

Edit due to typo.

Edited September 29, 2008 by bpmarko

[Diego_Sideburns]

I'd only add the complacent, lazy or whatever fanbase. Where are the 10k from the Premier days or even the 'fans' we took to Everton? 5k for a town of Oldham's size is an utter disgrace!

 

Agree 100%

 

We had economic boom and now we have recession. The one thing constant throughout has been the unwillingness of the people of Oldham to make the Club viable through attendances at BP.

 

We mustn't assume that TTA will continue to show their wilingness to lose money in this way, but I pray that they do in order to give the diehard fans a Club to support through thick and thin.

[Guest oa_exile]

Agree 100%

 

We had economic boom and now we have recession. The one thing constant throughout has been the unwillingness of the people of Oldham to make the Club viable through attendances at BP.

 

We mustn't assume that TTA will continue to show their wilingness to lose money in this way, but I pray that they do in order to give the diehard fans a Club to support through thick and thin.

 

I have resigned myself to the fact that the crowds will only return for the big games and when we return to the Championship.

[Diego_Sideburns]

I have resigned myself to the fact that the crowds will only return for the big games and when we return to the Championship.

 

So have I but it's not you and I who picks up the tab.

[Corporal_Jones]

You forgot to add "deceitful owners who will sell us off and run away with swag bags brimming with cash!!!"

 

 

 

I've never called the current owners deceitful.

 

Don't be such a self-righteous prig that you have to make it up, superfan.

 

Ahem , another week of

 

Corp you are clueless !

 

 

 

So we are not years behind clubs in similar towns to Oldham, such as Bolton, Burnley, Preston etc?

 

And there was I, thinking we were. Thanks to the Shapers of an Alternative Reality on here, like oa_exile, I can sit every fortnight in a modernised stadium, with up-to-date facilities. It may not look or feel like it but, hey-what does that matter?

 

To be fair to the Corp he is having a pop at the previous boards of directors and council not TTA who talked about a new stadium for years and never had the drive to make it reality so he does have a point on this one. Only TTA have had the drive to push it through and because the way the world is at this moment that will have to be but on hold and take a little longer than first hoped.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

The problem on here is that some people let their emotions get in the way of reality.

 

And while some seem able to write (in a fashion), they don't seem able to read.

 

Not being funny, but you must've missed some of his endless incessent ramblings if you think that. Corps has laughed at TTA and their promise of plans. Often asking "what plans?" I am of the ilk that it is healthy to question. Sadly though, Corps doesn't do this but merely snipes and one minutes suggests throwing ridiculous money at a promotion chase and new stadium but then denies it'd be anything like Chris M****'s era of chasing the dream/showing "ambition".

 

 

 

I haven't laughed at TTA but at the incoherent burblings of those like you, who talk of five-year plans, and the like, that exist only in their imaginations (nobody within the club has, to my knowledge, ever spoke of any such plans).

 

Nor have I ever suggested throwing ridiculous money at anything. The likes of Boundary Blue, blinded by his own emotions, doesn't seem able to tell the difference between the suggestion that keeping a strong squad together, and maybe adding one or two astute signings within the alloted budget, instead of starting anew every season, might have a bearing on whether we get promotion or not. He might notice that no such discussion has ensued this season, because...TTA kept a good squad together and strengthened it with some astute signings within the alloted budget. It's a miracle!

 

.........and at the same time I came name dozens more club in the same position as us.... take Bury, Stockport, Rochdale and that's just within the local area.

 

 

 

I'm not really concerned with them but with Latics. I'd prefer us to emulate the more successful clubs, not the mediocre and the basket cases. But that's just me, I guess.

 

And the fact that they might be struggling too takes nothing away from my reasoning as to why we are.

 

Leave it out corp

 

 

Am I supposed to simply put up with people claiming that I've written what I haven't?

 

My "Point" earlier is that we have made ground improvements steadily over the years , in fact we have spent a fare few bob or two actually over the years on all the four sides of BP.

My point is the Corp has decided to forget about the past and concentrate on now which we all know is not fault of the Club, which is losing money and has been as long as I can remember.

 

 

 

There might have been ground improvements within the limits afforded by an unambitious board (note for BB: this is not a reference to TTA), but that doesn't mean that we haven't been left behind by other clubs in similar towns who have been lucky enough to have boards with vision at the right time economically to bring their facilities fully up-to-date.

Edited September 29, 2008 by sheridans_world

[Markoasis]

Thank you.

 

The problem on here is that some people let their emotions get in the way of reality.

 

And while some seem able to write (in a fashion), they don't seem able to read.

 

Leave it out corp

[Markoasis]

So we are not years behind clubs in similar towns to Oldham, such as Bolton, Burnley, Preston etc?

 

And there was I, thinking we were. Thanks to the Shapers of an Alternative Reality on here, like oa_exile, I can sit every fortnight in a modernised stadium, with up-to-date facilities. It may not look or feel like it but, hey-what does that matter?

 

 

.........and at the same time I came name dozens more club in the same position as us.... take Bury, Stockport, Rochdale and that's just within the local area.

[garcon]

We can learn from our own past, and the current struggles of other clubs. And I believe that's exactly what TTA are doing.

 

Given their starting point in 2003, I feel confident about the future of the club, more so than at any time since about 1994.

[bpmarko]

There might have been ground improvements within the limits afforded by an unambitious board (note for BB: this is not a reference to TTA), but that doesn't mean that we haven't been left behind by other clubs in similar towns who have been lucky enough to have boards with vision at the right time economically to bring their facilities fully up-to-date.

 

To be fair, this is a moot point. We have now what we have, and cannot reasonably blame the current owners, who have and continue to fund the club through thin and thinner, and should be rightly applauded for that. The question is what can, or should be done about it. Any ideas, anyone?

[Corporal_Jones]

I don't think he has actually had a go at TTA he certainly didn't in the last post he blamed the two PAST boards not the currrnet one. Ive read plenty of the corporals posts and challenged him on his views he seems to puts the blame more on the state of football generally and that we are forever going nowhere.

 

 

Precisely. Lack of ambition, local business disinterest (with some very honourable exceptions) and council incompetence has turned the club into one of football's helpless victims and Oldham into Poormesville.

 

To be fair, this is a moot point. We have now what we have, and cannot reasonably blame the current owners, who have and continue to fund the club through thin and thinner, and should be rightly applauded for that. The question is what can, or should be done about it. Any ideas, anyone?

 

 

 

I'm not blaming the current owners, as I and others have made quite clear. The fact is that we have been left behind by similar clubs in similar towns, both on the pitch and in terms of facilities, whichever way you look at it.

 

That there is, aparently, very little that can be done about it is the whole point.

 

We can learn from our own past, and the current struggles of other clubs. And I believe that's exactly what TTA are doing.

 

Given their starting point in 2003, I feel confident about the future of the club, more so than at any time since about 1994.

 

 

 

I t might well be what they're doing, but it's a seperate discussion to the one about why we are in this position in the first place.

 

Lol...maybe you've never actually written those words but we both know you've implied as much (despite the fact you'll argue you haven't). Just to remind you of lines like....

So they're lying to us then? Ala...being deceitful to us???

There are many more like this.

 

 

 

Hey BB has been in the archives! Monday usually a slack day at work, or has the credit crunch started to hit business?

 

You're right-I didn't use the words you've attributed to me, or anything even vaguely like them. And I make no apologies for saying that with the sacking of Moore, the collapse of the best chance of promotion in decade the following season, and the seemingly pointless squad rebuilding every close season, which included getting rid of some of the best players, it did seem to me that the club lacked any sense of direction. Thankfully, in the last close season, problems like that seem to have been addressed.

Edited September 29, 2008 by sheridans_world

[boundaryblue80]

I've never called the current owners deceitful.

 

Don't be such a self-righteous prig that you have to make it up, superfan.

 

Lol...maybe you've never actually written those words but we both know you've implied as much (despite the fact you'll argue you haven't). Just to remind you of lines like....

 

Seems like message board talk to me. On the footballing side this club has no direction whatsoever.

 

So they're lying to us then? Ala...being deceitful to us???

 

 

There is no concrete evidence that there is any plan for any season in place.

 

It's words on a screen, that's all.

 

There are many more like this.

[owdhead]

.

Edited September 29, 2008 by owdhead

[boundaryblue80]

Hey BB has been in the archives! Monday usually a slack day at work, or has the credit crunch started to hit business.

 

You're right-I didn't use the words you've attributed to me, or anything even vaguely like them. And I make no perpetual squad rebuilding every close season, which included getting rid of some of the best players, that the club lacked any sense of direction. Thankfully, in the last close season, problems like that seem to have been addressed.

 

Lol...if I had more time I would be posting up more evidence that you don't trust our owners. We'll be waiting for you and your "told you so" should they pull out their swag bags!

[GlossopLatic]

Precisely. Lack of ambition, local business disinterest (with some very honourable exceptions) and council incompetence has turned the club into one of football's helpless victims and Oldham into Poormesville.

 

Good to see we have found something we agree on

 

However I don't think we are a helpless victim as you say, their is plenty to be optimistic about the future while the credit crunch has meant that the development of the stadium has had to be but on the backburner I am confident it will go through. The squad we have built is good, we have a manager with a good future and a youth system churning out good talent. We will go onto bigger better things.

 

In the ideal world TTA would have come in in 1995 which would have given them a much better starting position compared to where they picked us up in 2003 but it wasn't to be. Nevertheless they are here now and are taking the club forward.

[Corporal_Jones]

Are you having a laugh ! I have a better grip on reality than you do,as I posted earlier clueless ! you know nothing about the history of the Club and you know nothing about running a business either or you would not be posting absolute drivel about how the past owners have done nothing.

It all comes down to money or again are you failing to grasp the economics of it all ?

Personally I would rather sit in a :censored: hole watching Championship (Premiership is a pipe dream) football than a spanky nice new stadium watching third division drivel season in season out.

Let's get out this division and "think" about our nice stadium then.

 

 

 

And in addition to the downright liars and the hard-of-reading, we have those who fail to grasp what the discussion's been about entirely.

 

Here's the point again: the reason why we are currently enjoying neither Championship football nor up-to-date facilities is that past boards lacked both vision and the means (or will) to attract serious additional finance. The problem has been compounded by a so-called local busness community that doesn't care and a council that sees no role for the town's only asset of any note-its professional football club.

 

True, wider developments in football and society haven't helped, but other clubs in similar towns have coped better, for one reason or another. If people are comfortable with that, fine.

 

Good to see we have found something we agree on

 

However I don't think we are a helpless victim as you say, their is plenty to be optimistic about the future while the credit crunch has meant that the development of the stadium has had to be but on the backburner I am confident it will go through. The squad we have built is good, we have a manager with a good future and a youth system churning out good talent. We will go onto bigger better things.

 

In the ideal world TTA would have come in in 1995 which would have given them a much better starting position compared to where they picked us up in 2003 but it wasn't to be. Nevertheless they are here now and are taking the club forward.

 

 

 

The only thing about the present state of affairs at the club that I've commented on in this thread is the reason why it doesn't seem that we'll be sitting in the new main stand any time soon. And these reasons lie in the recent past.

 

Lol...if I had more time I would be posting up more evidence that you don't trust our owners. We'll be waiting for you and your "told you so" should they pull out their swag bags!

 

 

 

 

Headbanger. Ignore.

 

.

 

 

 

Withdrawn comments?

 

Another thing: you don't WATCH drivel. Will people please stop saying it? It irritates me slightly.

Edited September 29, 2008 by sheridans_world

[Scapegoat]

I cannot hide the disappointment that the ground development is not moving ahead and we face the likely scenario of having a 3 sided ground for a few years at least.

 

However, we cannot fill it, and economics tends to suggest we are better playing a waiting game on re-development rather than accepting cut-price valuations and building stands etc on the cheap.

 

What I do find surprising is that we must have known that re-development was on temporary (fingers crossed) hold BEFORE the Lookers was pulled down. If so, why did we not postpone that as well and keep a 4 sided ground?

 

Possible reasons:

 

1) We had already committed costs to the demolition operation before the decision to abort construction was made. Cancelling the demolition could have still incurred costs. If so - depending on the value of the wasted money, this might have been a good idea.

 

2) We don't have enough people through the gate to warrant opening and running 4 stands (power, water, staff etc) and therefore it is more cost-effective to knock the Lookers down and operate at reduced running costs for the same income. If so, this is a very cold business decision but again it might be better for the club overall. But its also potentially short-sighted - a cup match against Liverpool, a play-off game, promotion even would all mean we miss out on income as a result. How much have we saved v potential lost income?

 

Thoughts?

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

So we are not years behind clubs in similar towns to Oldham, such as Bolton, Burnley, Preston etc?

 

I'm glad you actually mentioned clubs this time. Rather than vaguely stating 'other' clubs like you usually do.

 

Burnley - Much larger catchment area there. They have vast expanses of northern Lancashire to exploit for fanbase, plus traditionally they have a richer history of top flight football. When you have an average gate of around 14,000 when you're doing shíte then you have more money in the pot. FA Cup winners.... European Cup games etc. etc.

 

Preston - See above. Massive catchment area above them and into Cumbria. Have an even richer heritige than Burnley and again summon gates of at least 9 and 10k when they're in the doldrums.

 

Bolton - Slightly smaller catchment area than the above mentioned. But again, lots of heritage there and have always been a kind of 'sleeping giant' when they were in the lower leagues.

 

The only heritage we have is the spurt of success we had under Royle, and to some extent the stability of being a 2nd Division club for nearly 20 years in the 70's and 80's. The FIFTY years before that we were a traditionally a bottom division club in the main and therefore can't really be classed as like-for-likes with Preston and Bolton.

 

One thing I will agree with is they all have a fairly ambitious and stable board. I think this is something we can also boast now, and if we maintain the progress we HAVE made since TTA's arrival then we'll maybe be able to compete on the same level as the clubs you mention.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Frankly Mr Shankly

[Corporal_Jones]

I'm glad you actually mentioned clubs this time. Rather than vaguely stating 'other' clubs like you usually do.

 

Burnley - Much larger catchment area there. They have vast expanses of northern Lancashire to exploit for fanbase, plus traditionally they have a richer history of top flight football. When you have an average gate of around 14,000 when you're doing shíte then you have more money in the pot. FA Cup winners.... European Cup games etc. etc.

 

Preston - See above. Massive catchment area above them and into Cumbria. Have an even richer heritige than Burnley and again summon gates of at least 9 and 10k when they're in the doldrums.

 

Bolton - Slightly smaller catchment area than the above mentioned. But again, lots of heritage there and have always been a kind of 'sleeping giant' when they were in the lower leagues.

 

The only heritage we have is the spurt of success we had under Royle, and to some extent the stability of being a 2nd Division club for nearly 20 years in the 70's and 80's. The FIFTY years before that we were a traditionally a bottom division club in the main and therefore can't really be classed as like-for-likes with Preston and Bolton.

 

One thing I will agree with is they all have a fairly ambitious and stable board. I think this is something we can also boast now, and if we maintain the progress we HAVE made since TTA's arrival then we'll maybe be able to compete on the same level as the clubs you mention.

 

 

 

How does heritage and the size of a club's catchment area account for the fact that when we were riding high seemingly nothing serious was done to attract the kind of financial backing that could have prevented us slipping back to where we came from? Success is something that comes and goes, and when it does you have to build on it. That's how heritage is accumulated, not to mention support. When we were in the Premier League Burnley, Bolton and Preston were existing on gates of half of those we were commanding, or even less.

 

And big catchment area or not, Oldham has a bigger population than Burnley and one that falls not far short of Preston and Bolton. It is up to the club to make itself attractive to as many of those people as possible one way or another.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[GlossopLatic]

I cannot hide the disappointment that the ground development is not moving ahead and we face the likely scenario of having a 3 sided ground for a few years at least.

 

However, we cannot fill it, and economics tends to suggest we are better playing a waiting game on re-development rather than accepting cut-price valuations and building stands etc on the cheap.

 

What I do find surprising is that we must have known that re-development was on temporary (fingers crossed) hold BEFORE the Lookers was pulled down. If so, why did we not postpone that as well and keep a 4 sided ground?

 

Possible reasons:

 

1) We had already committed costs to the demolition operation before the decision to abort construction was made. Cancelling the demolition could have still incurred costs. If so - depending on the value of the wasted money, this might have been a good idea.

 

2) We don't have enough people through the gate to warrant opening and running 4 stands (power, water, staff etc) and therefore it is more cost-effective to knock the Lookers down and operate at reduced running costs for the same income. If so, this is a very cold business decision but again it might be better for the club overall. But its also potentially short-sighted - a cup match against Liverpool, a play-off game, promotion even would all mean we miss out on income as a result. How much have we saved v potential lost income?

 

Thoughts?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but originally wasn't building meant to commence about Febuary time meaning opening for 2009-10 season so we were already going to knock it down while building on the residential development took place.

 

As things stand we have a capacity for 10,500 which is enough all considering at this level the only problems will be if we get promotion thats when the capacity constraints will become a problem.

[daznathe]

three sided fortress

[Scapegoat]

Correct me if I'm wrong but originally wasn't building meant to commence about Febuary time meaning opening for 2009-10 season so we were already going to knock it down while building on the residential development took place.

 

As things stand we have a capacity for 10,500 which is enough all considering at this level the only problems will be if we get promotion thats when the capacity constraints will become a problem.

 

Not sure on when the building work was due to start, but my point was that we knew it wasn't BEFORE we pulled down the Lookers. And then the question is Why?

 

Agreed that 10,500 is plenty for League One games. But when we pulled down the Lookers we knew we would not have a replacement by the start of 09/10 and therefore we risk not having capacity for Championship games next year. We also run the risk of missing out on money from cup games (albeit Shez'z concentrate on the league strategy means this is unlikely) and play-off matches this year.

 

And again the question is Why?

 

 

Its not a massive issue at present and I am not having a go at TTA (they have been a godsend) - but the timing of the demolition and the knowledge that construction was delayed is something that is a point worthy of discussion on the forum IMO.

[leeslover]

Not sure on when the building work was due to start, but my point was that we knew it wasn't BEFORE we pulled down the Lookers. And then the question is Why?

 

Agreed that 10,500 is plenty for League One games. But when we pulled down the Lookers we knew we would not have a replacement by the start of 09/10 and therefore we risk not having capacity for Championship games next year. We also run the risk of missing out on money from cup games (albeit Shez'z concentrate on the league strategy means this is unlikely) and play-off matches this year.

 

And again the question is Why?

Its not a massive issue at present and I am not having a go at TTA (they have been a godsend) - but the timing of the demolition and the knowledge that construction was delayed is something that is a point worthy of discussion on the forum IMO.

The Lookers will have been costing a fair bit of money in upkeep, and that would only have increased as it got older and crappier. The facilities were crap in it so it wouldn't have generated a lot by way of additional revenue, and there would have been little point investing in it only to pull it all down in a few years time. I don't think the hope of a big cup draw and selling the extra 3000 tickets as a one off would compare to the saving we are making having the same fans in the three sides - and don't forget, there's no Paddock cheap seats now either.