oafc_ok Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 People who bought tickets in the main home stand and were willing to celebrate if Latics score were probably wondering, 'whats the worst that will happen?' Well that was near the top of the list. If I was going into the home end thinking "What's the worst that will happen?" my imagination would have stopped well short of what actually occurred. Over the course of 28 years watching football I've seen fans in the 'wrong' end on dozens of occasions, and I've seen trouble erupt on quite a few of them. I've never before seen such a sustained attack by such a large number of fans. At the semi final at Maine Road there was plenty of trouble due to Mancs in our end, but it was a series of isolated scuffles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchie82 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 If I was going into the home end thinking "What's the worst that will happen?" my imagination would have stopped well short of what actually occurred. Over the course of 28 years watching football I've seen fans in the 'wrong' end on dozens of occasions, and I've seen trouble erupt on quite a few of them. I've never before seen such a sustained attack by such a large number of fans. At the semi final at Maine Road there was plenty of trouble due to Mancs in our end, but it was a series of isolated scuffles. I think 'I might get battered if I celebrate a goal' would have crossed your mind at some point. I think the main point when you bought them would be if we score don't say anything. To jump up and celebrate is just plain stupid. The attack was OTT but as you have said you have seen trouble many times so why would your imagination stop you from thinking 'if we go one up and I celebrate most of the people in here will want to give me a shoeing' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 To be fair they saw the goal and didn't have to sit through the garbage we served up 2nd half so not all bad. lol never thought of that, that really is sunny side up! imagining some of them at home later thinking 'jeeeezz i wont do that again, bust my nose broke my wrist not worth cheering in a home end again. but at least we won 1 nil and still top of the league!!!' or, in smiley form.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc_ok Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I think 'I might get battered if I celebrate a goal' would have crossed your mind at some point. I think the main point when you bought them would be if we score don't say anything. To jump up and celebrate is just plain stupid. The attack was OTT but as you have said you have seen trouble many times so why would your imagination stop you from thinking 'if we go one up and I celebrate most of the people in here will want to give me a shoeing' Of course. That thought has crossed my mind when I've been in the wrong end. However, I would have expected a similar reaction to that which I have witnessed many times. What happened on Friday was not in my experience the typical reaction to opposition fans in your end. Have you seen anything like that before? It could have been that the reaction of Stockport's stewards was much slower than the reaction of stewards on the other occasions which allowed it to become such a sustained attack. I've forgotten myself when in the wrong end on two occasions and cheered a goal. One was at Old Trafford and it was probably only the fact that it was disallowed that saved me from harm - I think the Mancs jeering was worse than being attacked! The other was at St James' Park when no away fans were allowed - no reaction at all from the Geordies to my cheers, although I sat down and shut up pretty quickly when I realised what I'd done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
County boy Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I think 'I might get battered if I celebrate a goal' would have crossed your mind at some point. I think the main point when you bought them would be if we score don't say anything. To jump up and celebrate is just plain stupid. The attack was OTT but as you have said you have seen trouble many times so why would your imagination stop you from thinking 'if we go one up and I celebrate most of the people in here will want to give me a shoeing' Glad some have actual accepted the Police's part in this rather than the anti Stockport potshots which seem de rigueur post Friday. I should point out that it was not the celebrating of the goal per se which caused the reaction, it was the subsequent goading with "come on" gestures which caused some to indeed do so. I think it rather needs putting in that context, although it doesn't excuse the reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 bloke near to me covered his face with his scarf and shouted 'come on this is what we wanted' and a few other rallying cries as he lead a group across the front of the stand, from left to right as you look at the pitch. he then returned to sit with either his daughter or much younger girlfriend, who was very impressed with his actions, which made me think it was his girlfriend even if she was easily half his age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 If I was going into the home end thinking "What's the worst that will happen?" my imagination would have stopped well short of what actually occurred. Over the course of 28 years watching football I've seen fans in the 'wrong' end on dozens of occasions, and I've seen trouble erupt on quite a few of them. I've never before seen such a sustained attack by such a large number of fans. At the semi final at Maine Road there was plenty of trouble due to Mancs in our end, but it was a series of isolated scuffles. Sheffield Wednesday at BP 1991 'that game.' The Wednesday fans in The Chaddy hardly got a good reception after they scored, the game was halted for a time also, and it left West Ham waiting for our result to come in with the trophy engraved. We are no better than CountyIMO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prendy_1984 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 That was the biggest game in our history hardly a comparable situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martjs Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) You need to read this thread (and others) then because most of that is based on groundless asumption. You again seem to conveniently forget the Police were involved. Go and read the quote from your own club official in your local rag, I've quoted it in this or another thread, which is bang on the mark. The worst thing about the violence is that it seemed to take an eternity for your stewards and/or the police to get in there and break up the 'fighting'. I hope you're never involved in a disaster at a football match with that kind of stewarding. Unless, there was a motive in all this... Mind you, the steward in our stand was good at coming behind us and saying "Sit down now lads" every few minutes. Edited October 7, 2008 by martjs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 That was the biggest game in our history hardly a comparable situation In the biggest game in your history you're almost obliged to give away fans in your end a bit of a smacking. That's the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 In the biggest game in your history you're almost obliged to give away fans in your end a bit of a smacking. That's the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
County boy Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 The worst thing about the violence is that it seemed to take an eternity for your stewards and/or the police to get in there and break up the 'fighting'. I hope you're never involved in a disaster at a football match with that kind of stewarding. Unless, there was a motive in all this... Mind you, the steward in our stand was good at coming behind us and saying "Sit down now lads" every few minutes. Motive ? Please elaborate. The Police were in charge of security, you'd have to ask them why they positioned themselves as they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickster Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 The police may have been able to react more quickly had they not been occupied by Oldham fans playing up outside the ground having been removed from the Main Stand. Whilst I'm not particularly proud of the reaction, those Latics fans brought it on themselves. They invited the whole of the Cheadle End to "have a go" so surely they can't be too upset if a few take them up on their offer. If you're not prepared to take a beating then don't cheer an away goal in the home end and then goad the home fans to that extent, simple really. I'd fully expect the same to happen to me if I did that at the vast majority of grounds in England including Boundary Park. Personally I've got no problem with away fans sitting in the home end if the away end is sold out but ideally they should show some respect and also have some common sense. I'm sure there were plenty of Oldham fans elsewhere in the home end that managed it and were able to watch the game without any problems. I don't think you can blame a small allocation (regardless of whether the police or SCFC made that decision) for the way that particular group of Oldham fans behaved after you scored. I'm not suggesting that County are blameless in this but there seem to be a few on this board that think that the Oldham fans involved were innocent victims, frankly that couldn't be further from the truth. Te behaviour of Oldham fans in at least one Edgeley pub that I know of also left a lot to be desired so you have no moral high ground on this one in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martjs Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 (edited) Motive ? Please elaborate. The Police were in charge of security, you'd have to ask them why they positioned themselves as they did. Of course: A cynic could infer that your stewards wanted any other Oldham fans in the Cheadle End see that they weren't going to bail out any fans that got involved in fighting (no matter how heavily-outnumbered they were and/or one-sided it was). In addition, a conspiracy theorist might see that this type of "hands-off" approach to stewarding could send a message to any other League One visiting fans of teams that will easily sell out the pitiful allocation that County give them who are considering going in the Cheadle End - although I might be stretching it a bit here... Hope this helps. Edited October 8, 2008 by martjs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I know I'm stating the obvious here but putting the ticketing issue to one side. If you sit in the wrong end at a football match and celebrate a goal then in all likelyhood a few out of the 2,000+ opposing fans sat around you are going to take offense. Not only are they going to take offense they might have had too much to drink and might take irresponsible action. I'm not defending what happened, but get a clue! Anyone with half a brain would know not to put themself in that situation. Why are so many people posting here making it sound like the Oldham fans had no choice? Here are the options: 1) Buy a ticket early enough to get in the away end 2) Don't go to the game 3) Get a ticket in the County section but stay quiet 4) Get a ticket in the County section and make it well known you're Oldham fans when we score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 The police may have been able to react more quickly had they not been occupied by Oldham fans playing up outside the ground having been removed from the Main Stand. Whilst I'm not particularly proud of the reaction, those Latics fans brought it on themselves. They invited the whole of the Cheadle End to "have a go" so surely they can't be too upset if a few take them up on their offer. If you're not prepared to take a beating then don't cheer an away goal in the home end and then goad the home fans to that extent, simple really. I'd fully expect the same to happen to me if I did that at the vast majority of grounds in England including Boundary Park. Personally I've got no problem with away fans sitting in the home end if the away end is sold out but ideally they should show some respect and also have some common sense. I'm sure there were plenty of Oldham fans elsewhere in the home end that managed it and were able to watch the game without any problems. I don't think you can blame a small allocation (regardless of whether the police or SCFC made that decision) for the way that particular group of Oldham fans behaved after you scored. I'm not suggesting that County are blameless in this but there seem to be a few on this board that think that the Oldham fans involved were innocent victims, frankly that couldn't be further from the truth. Te behaviour of Oldham fans in at least one Edgeley pub that I know of also left a lot to be desired so you have no moral high ground on this one in my view. So are are saying that the oldham fan who was beaten up was not an innocent victim? and that you are therefore defending the 20 or so yobs that jumped on the Oldham fan in the lower part of the Cheadle End kicking 10 tons of cr*p out of him? and he should have been "prepared to take a beating" Be he innocent or not there is absolutely no excuse for that behaviour from your "fans" some of whom must have initially been 30, 40 or 50 yards away from him. Personally, I'd call it cowardice. Even I might fancy my chances of 20 against 1. Whilst I agree that visiting fans in the home end should show some respect, that is also to be expected in return. Your yobs had no right to dish out that treatment. What should have happened if the Oldham fan was out of order was that the Stewards/Police should have ejected /arrested him and your fans should have left them to it or at most reported the situation to them and asked them to take action. Finally, you say that the police may have been able to react more quickly had they not been occupied by Oldham fans playing up outside the ground having been removed from the Main Stand. Well you need to get your facts right before typing, because the Police actually were in with the Oldham fans in the popular stand and took ages before they reacted and went into the Cheadle End. They were just stood around talking and watching what was going on. The real question you should be asking is what were the Police doing in with the Oldham fans who were in the right part of the ground when every man and his dog had known for over a week that there were Oldham fans with tickets in the home stands. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martjs Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 The police may have been able to react more quickly had they not been occupied by Oldham fans playing up outside the ground having been removed from the Main Stand. Whilst I'm not particularly proud of the reaction, those Latics fans brought it on themselves. They invited the whole of the Cheadle End to "have a go" so surely they can't be too upset if a few take them up on their offer. If you're not prepared to take a beating then don't cheer an away goal in the home end and then goad the home fans to that extent, simple really. I'd fully expect the same to happen to me if I did that at the vast majority of grounds in England including Boundary Park. Personally I've got no problem with away fans sitting in the home end if the away end is sold out but ideally they should show some respect and also have some common sense. I'm sure there were plenty of Oldham fans elsewhere in the home end that managed it and were able to watch the game without any problems. I don't think you can blame a small allocation (regardless of whether the police or SCFC made that decision) for the way that particular group of Oldham fans behaved after you scored. I'm not suggesting that County are blameless in this but there seem to be a few on this board that think that the Oldham fans involved were innocent victims, frankly that couldn't be further from the truth. Te behaviour of Oldham fans in at least one Edgeley pub that I know of also left a lot to be desired so you have no moral high ground on this one in my view. Watch this and then explain what your stewards are doing... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XZF566CWiYM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca_is_GOD2 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 The police may have been able to react more quickly had they not been occupied by Oldham fans playing up outside the ground having been removed from the Main Stand. Whilst I'm not particularly proud of the reaction, those Latics fans brought it on themselves. They invited the whole of the Cheadle End to "have a go" so surely they can't be too upset if a few take them up on their offer. If you're not prepared to take a beating then don't cheer an away goal in the home end and then goad the home fans to that extent, simple really. I'd fully expect the same to happen to me if I did that at the vast majority of grounds in England including Boundary Park. Personally I've got no problem with away fans sitting in the home end if the away end is sold out but ideally they should show some respect and also have some common sense. I'm sure there were plenty of Oldham fans elsewhere in the home end that managed it and were able to watch the game without any problems. I don't think you can blame a small allocation (regardless of whether the police or SCFC made that decision) for the way that particular group of Oldham fans behaved after you scored. I'm not suggesting that County are blameless in this but there seem to be a few on this board that think that the Oldham fans involved were innocent victims, frankly that couldn't be further from the truth. Te behaviour of Oldham fans in at least one Edgeley pub that I know of also left a lot to be desired so you have no moral high ground on this one in my view. In my view your p*ss*ng in the same pot as us...so you think your fans are high on moral ground, when 30+ so called county fans are jumping on someone and kicking the life out of him or them. Your stewards are jokes i thought are's were bad!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickster Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 So are are saying that the oldham fan who was beaten up was not an innocent victim? and that you are therefore defending the 20 or so yobs that jumped on the Oldham fan in the lower part of the Cheadle End kicking 10 tons of cr*p out of him? and he should have been "prepared to take a beating" Be he innocent or not there is absolutely no excuse for that behaviour from your "fans" some of whom must have initially been 30, 40 or 50 yards away from him. Personally, I'd call it cowardice. Even I might fancy my chances of 20 against 1. Whilst I agree that visiting fans in the home end should show some respect, that is also to be expected in return. Your yobs had no right to dish out that treatment. What should have happened if the Oldham fan was out of order was that the Stewards/Police should have ejected /arrested him and your fans should have left them to it or at most reported the situation to them and asked them to take action. Finally, you say that the police may have been able to react more quickly had they not been occupied by Oldham fans playing up outside the ground having been removed from the Main Stand. Well you need to get your facts right before typing, because the Police actually were in with the Oldham fans in the popular stand and took ages before they reacted and went into the Cheadle End. They were just stood around talking and watching what was going on. The real question you should be asking is what were the Police doing in with the Oldham fans who were in the right part of the ground when every man and his dog had known for over a week that there were Oldham fans with tickets in the home stands. Cheers, Harry Just to clarify, I'm not looking to defend the County fans that were involved. The point I'm making is this: The Cheadle End holds over 5000 and for the sake of arguement lets say it was half full. That's 2500. If only 1% of that respond having been provoked (I'm talking about the goading and calling it on rather than celebrating your goal) then that's more than enough for the 10 or so Oldham fans to be heavily out-numbered. If you were to provoke a big group of people like that in any other situation I think it's far to assume that more than 1 in 100 will respond, so why expect any less at a football ground? My view is that the Oldham fans involved must surely have been aware of the risk they were taking so I have no sympathy at all. If you deliberately provoke people to that extent in any situation then there will usually be consequences, if you're not prepared to accept those consequences then don't do it. I'm not in favour of violence at football (or anywhere else) and as I said in my previous post I'm not proud of the reaction from those County fans at the front of the CE. The reason for my posts on the subject is that a lot of Oldham fans believe SCFC are fully to blame here and it's simply not true. Yes Oldham should have had a bigger allocation, yes the stewarding could have been better. But don't think for one second that the "victims" were sitting quietly and keeping themselves to themselves before being set upon by an angry mob, they provoked it so they should take responsibility for their actions. There is blame on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 This is quite a good video and should definately help the coppers with their enquiries as you can make out some of the faces involved, note watch for the guy in blue who jumps in from out of shot surely he wasn't provoked. (Lets hope the clip stays up long enough- unlike the one mentioned above) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Just to clarify, I'm not looking to defend the County fans that were involved. The point I'm making is this: The Cheadle End holds over 5000 and for the sake of arguement lets say it was half full. That's 2500. If only 1% of that respond having been provoked (I'm talking about the goading and calling it on rather than celebrating your goal) then that's more than enough for the 10 or so Oldham fans to be heavily out-numbered. If you were to provoke a big group of people like that in any other situation I think it's far to assume that more than 1 in 100 will respond, so why expect any less at a football ground? My view is that the Oldham fans involved must surely have been aware of the risk they were taking so I have no sympathy at all. If you deliberately provoke people to that extent in any situation then there will usually be consequences, if you're not prepared to accept those consequences then don't do it. I'm not in favour of violence at football (or anywhere else) and as I said in my previous post I'm not proud of the reaction from those County fans at the front of the CE. The reason for my posts on the subject is that a lot of Oldham fans believe SCFC are fully to blame here and it's simply not true. Yes Oldham should have had a bigger allocation, yes the stewarding could have been better. But don't think for one second that the "victims" were sitting quietly and keeping themselves to themselves before being set upon by an angry mob, they provoked it so they should take responsibility for their actions. There is blame on both sides. So despite what you say further on in the paragraph you are justifying the violence. Don't come on here and think that simply by saying you are not in favour of violence will make us think that you condem the actions of your fellow "fans" when you also say you have no sympathy for the victim. You bloody well should have sympathy, because, despite your protestations the oldham fan was not going in there fighting with the County fans, he was celebrating a goal. That as I have said previously is no excuse for the subsequent violence. The fact he shouldn't have been in there is a separate matter and the reason he was forced to go in there is one that we do agree could and should have been prevented. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 This is quite a good video and should definately help the coppers with their enquiries as you can make out some of the faces involved, note watch for the guy in blue who jumps in from out of shot surely he wasn't provoked. (Lets hope the clip stays up long enough- unlike the one mentioned above) Ooops >>CCTV<< footage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mckenzie Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Common sense would tell you there will be reprecussions from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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