kellys_discopants Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 People say put Fleming in but from what ive seen of the lad he`s been pretty poor. Was at fault for two of the goals at Burnley, i missed the Morecambe match, and against Hereford he looked abit wobbly, with Jones clearing one of the line and Fleming also giving them a chance from a very dodgy goal kick. I know he hasnt played much from what i`ve seen, Crossley everytime. People see the mistakes but you need to look at what else Crossley brings. His organisation at the back with Gregan, his distribution has improved massively, his balls on Saturday to Liddell on the right were brilliant ... everyone moved to the left for a long hoof and he pinged it over to Lidds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsLee Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 KD Is right fleming has looked very very dodgy in net and to be honest i wouldnt want him to be in net. crossley is fine... for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoasis Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 what do you mean what error take it you wasnt at the game either then.................... basic keeping to stop a shot that is the right hight from 35 yards I seemed to have lost a day and my ability to know what a well taken goal is somewhere!!! Late night Dean? Seems that way mate. All this talk of Flemming needing to step in .... anyone got evidence he will be better than Crossley?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 KD Is right so am i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 All this talk of Flemming needing to step in .... anyone got evidence he will be better than Crossley?? Well no. He's hardly played at all has he. Until he does the same questions will be asked when these mistakes (can we say that?) happen. People want to see those who have been signed and see what they are like. That way they can label them brilliant or bobbins. I've even seen Williams mentioned in the last few weeks and he is just a kid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeykieran Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 He was a promising player and could've gone to bigger teams in higher divisions but came here because of Crossley being able to coach him, AND to play. So let him play I say, he needs a couple of matches to keep everything in perspective, may do crossley some good too (Crossley to take time out to work on crosses shocker). As has been mentioned how do we know if he's going to be any good if we don't play him? It's not like we've been perfect displays off Crossley of late (at least some people have criticised him for pretty much every goal in the last 4 games), however he has had some great saves, that doesn't mean we shouldn't give the young lad a start and what better in this mini-slump period than to have some healthy competition for places between player and mentor? As his coach Mark should be proud to see him play and develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordy Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 When are people going to realise how bad Crossley is. It's only because we have a good team infront of him that he hasnt been exposed more, he's made 2 absolute howlers this season and last night is one of a number of shots that he should have saved comfortably, the only thing that bothers me is that Fleming isnt much better either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 When are people going to realise how bad Crossley is. It's only because we have a good team infront of him that he hasnt been exposed more, he's made 2 absolute howlers this season and last night is one of a number of shots that he should have saved comfortably, the only thing that bothers me is that Fleming isnt much better either. Utter, utter, utter , utter Rubbish yong man. Garbage. "Oldham Fans" like you make me shake my head in disbelief - Crossley never has been, and still isn't a 'bad' keeper. His shot stopping is up there with the best in the division, his distribution is cracking & his experience & (considerable) pressence is invaluable to the team. Fleming has been brought in as one for the future, just like stephens / lee / williams etc of this lot. He is being coached by MC everyday, and will be learning loads & loads from. Expect Fleming to be next seasons #1, but for this season, big Norm is the obvious choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neiladamsheadband Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I didnt go to the game last night - but since the 1st game of the sesson people hve been calling for his head and love to blame him everytime we concede despite the fact he has kept six clean sheets and the same people do not give any praise his way when he does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Utter, utter, utter , utter Rubbish yong man. Garbage. "Oldham Fans" like you make me shake my head in disbelief - Crossley never has been, and still isn't a 'bad' keeper. His shot stopping is up there with the best in the division, his distribution is cracking & his experience & (considerable) pressence is invaluable to the team. Fleming has been brought in as one for the future, just like stephens / lee / williams etc of this lot. He is being coached by MC everyday, and will be learning loads & loads from. Expect Fleming to be next seasons #1, but for this season, big Norm is the obvious choice. Aye. Crossley must have been winging it in the Premier League for nigh on 20 years now if he's ':censored:e'. I think a few years ago and a few stone lighter and Crossley may have saved the first goal last night, but overall he's not having a bad season and has contributed to the side with a few penalty saves and by earning a few points for us with other timely blocks. But that's it all along with keepers. They make one error and people like Lordy are hanging them out to dry. Check out how many errors outfield players make which go unpunished. It's safe to assume this is probably Norm's last season as a player anyway, but I think Greg Fleming couldn't have anyone better to show him the ropes as he prepares to step in as numero uno next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordy Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) His shot stopping is up there with the best in the division, his distribution is cracking & his experience & (considerable) pressence is invaluable to the team. Last night would seem to suggest very much otherwise. Edited October 22, 2008 by Lordy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 It's safe to assume this is probably Norm's last season as a player anyway, but I think Greg Fleming couldn't have anyone better to show him the ropes as he prepares to step in as numero uno next season. I'd not be surprised to see him still on as player coach next season if Fleming does take over as first choice. I don't see why Temple is going to lose so much form and fitness in the next 9 months that he couldn't be at least an able deputy, as well as everyone around the club singing his praises for the influence he has with the younger players. Hold on, Lordy didn't get his belt back did he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordy Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) 1 Aye. Crossley must have been winging it in the Premier League for nigh on 20 years now if he's ':censored:e'. 2 I think a few years ago and a few stone lighter 3. They make one error and people like Lordy are hanging them out to dry. Check out how many errors outfield players make which go unpunished. 1. He was a good keeper as was Gordon Banks doesn't mean i want him in our side. 2. Why should we tolerate him being overweight he is a professional and surely the least he can do is be fit. 3. As for making one error, its not just one error is it, Last night was a simple save as were the goals against Millwall and Hartlepool, and i suppose the next gaffe he makes will be a one off too. Edited October 22, 2008 by Lordy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 As much as I don't really want to get into a pointless debate about him, I'll address your points. At the end of the day Shez deems him no. 1 and I'd most of the crowd agree with him. 1. He was a good keeper as was Gordon Banks doesn't mean i want him in our side. This wasn't the point. The point I made was he's carved a career out at the highest league level in England. I think this alone deserves a little bit of respect at least. 2. Why should we tolerate him being overweight he is a professional and surely the least he can do is be fit. He's not playing left wing as far as I know. I think having a little bit of extra weight isn't too bad as a keeper. He certainly makes centre forwards thing twice when they're going in for a 50/50 ball with him. I wouldn't class Gregan in the uber-fit bracket (he's certainly a stone or two overweight), but he shows you don't have to be a lean superfit induvidual to be among the best. 3. As for making one error, its not just one error is it, Last night was a simple save as were the goals against Millwall and Hartlepool, and i suppose the next gaffe he makes will be a one off too. But it is really isn't it? And most outfield players make far more than 1 error per game, which usually goes unpunished as they're made when its not a direct threat on our goal. As it goes, he made a pretty decent stop before the goal to push a similar shot round the post. I think the best thing we can judge him on, and any keeper for that matter, is how many clean sheets they keep. It's a fair enough yardstick even if the defence as a whole contributes to them, just like when we score a goal, other players are involved in the build up/assist. His clean sheet record has been pretty decent in his time here overrall, and he certainly deserves a bit more than the constant slating he recieves from the likes of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoasis Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Last night would seem to suggest very much otherwise. last night suggested not of the sort... last night neither goals were simple saves!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Fleming shouldn't be judged on the two and a half games he's played for Latics competitively. He should be judged on how he performs every day in training...how well he can claim crosses, kick, block shots and command his area in practice games. If Shez thinks Greg's performing better in training than Norm is in games...then he'll drop Norm and bring Greg in. Some people are saying that Fleming should be given a shot to prove himself, well if Shez, who watches him every day, thinks he isn't yet up to it, then who are you to argue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 What error ... the first was a great strike and the second was the defence error. Apart from that he wasn't troubled that much and handle those situations well. Whilst I am quite happy to say I've backed Norm in nets even thou his flexibility isn't there as much due to age, his covering of angles makes up some what. However last night sat behind the goal it was very clear Norm should have dealt with the first goal comfortably. A safe and easy parry was there with ease whilst stopping it and holding on was within the realms of standard goalkeeping. Norm himself will be and was rightly disappointed with that effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neiladamsheadband Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) so the argument is in peoples eyes is a proven keeper who some people believe is making too many mistakes - which for the record i disagree against a unproven keeper who may or may not be ready but who some believe should now be in the side, i have not see enough of him to make an opinion as to whether or not he is ready or not but dont think crossley should be replaced at this time Edited October 22, 2008 by neiladamsheadband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Forgot to add I'd keep Norm in nets for now until Fleming learns more from him. Still 1st goal last night was by a pro keepers standards easy to deal with. Maybe not hold it (and not cos of the power) but certainly parried round the post or away to the flank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoasis Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Whilst I am quite happy to say I've backed Norm in nets even thou his flexibility isn't there as much due to age, his covering of angles makes up some what. However last night sat behind the goal it was very clear Norm should have dealt with the first goal comfortably. A safe and easy parry was there with ease whilst stopping it and holding on was within the realms of standard goalkeeping. Norm himself will be and was rightly disappointed with that effort. Yes i'll openly admit that a younger keeper may have done better. Personally I think he still offers a lot more than a younger / quicker keeper can offer us.... it's a fine balance especially as its probally Crossley's last full season and I believe Shez must be confident he is getting it right at present with his choice. This with the invaluable experience he brings to the side is why Norm is number one at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordy Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 last night suggested not of the sort... last night neither goals were simple saves!!! But surely 'One of the best shot stoppers in the league' could have done something about the first ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordy Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 So mark your going back on your original statement that he did not infact make an error to saying now he should have done better ? Just because he is experienced doesnt mean he should be playing, he could still share his experience from his coaching role, as sheridan does, maybe Shez should become player manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) .....he has the Porter tag I'm afraid...for some fans, you either like him or you don't...bit like the Crossley brigade who are waiting for his next error (which like in any Lge One player, there'll be one.) Wow...I'm predicting things scarily well at present...like the knobhead referee on Saturday, our last two results and the above which I posted ten minutes before setting off yesterday...... Yes - I felt Crossley should've saved it last night, but he came to our rescue elsewhere esp late on when they broke on us No - It isn't a reason to open up the drop him debate again IMO... League One lads...players make errors...end of discussion. Edited October 22, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 But surely 'One of the best shot stoppers in the league' could have done something about the first ? Even the best do make mistakes. I bet you've scuffed a shot or pass even by your standards too. (not a personal assault, I've missed placed passes in the garden standard!) However the 1st was down to Crossley in the end. I say end cos we can say had an out field player closed down the ball Crossley wouldn't have needed to save it. The fact is he was required and a keeper of his standard should have dealt with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Just a little side issue regarding crossley being overweight /not fit etc - have you seen him close up (clothed of course!) he's a tall fella, but certainly doesn't look overweight close up - but regardless of this, crossley makes a mistake - you want him dropped, Fleming comes in, makes a few errors, he's not good enough - we sign 2 more keepers, they make mistakes - drop 'em, they're not good enough!! A pattern occurs! As BB said - This is 3rd division football, mistakes happen! Keep watching the TV and the premgreed for your athletes and perfect footballers (titus Bramble apart ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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