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Manchester Congestion Charge Referendum


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Congestion Charge Referendum  

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    • Yes
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    • No
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Surely its a benefit to the people who would us it ?? I can grantee that % will be small...

 

A tram stop with no tram line is not of any use to anybody. This is a FACT.

 

No... But you can grantee it wont get better if we don't spend anything....

See the post below. You need only look at the billions of lost spending on public services to see that there is no necessary pay off between spending and delivery. Remember how OMBC dealt with the planning application? Imagine that x several thousand.

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oh do please explain ? :)

If people simply avoid going within the M60 ring as a result, every business inside will suffer.

 

The problem there is that many business inside the ring employ people who live outside the ring (e.g. Oldham).

 

If those businesses go under, there would be a ripple effect in to the styx.

 

And if you were a new business looking to invest in an area, you would avoid anywhere that has a congestion charge as this would inevitably add to labour costs.

Edited by opinions4u
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It wont reduce traffice in the congestion zone yet you freely admit your parents are planning on changing your sisters school to avoid it :lol:

 

I doubt everyone can afford a extra £200 a month... There is no doubt it will reduce traffic :)

 

 

ahh you see, i said it wont reduce the traffic in the city centre, where the traffic needs to be reduced the most. because there will always be busieness men who can either afford it or who's companys will pay it!

 

what it will do is reduce the traffic in the ''outter zones'' which wont really make a difference to anyone anyway!

 

 

Also, what happened in london after two years was they increased the price of the congestion zone by 60% and area by 50%, and many north west councils inc. OLDHAM refer to possible future charging schemes.

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What Oldham will gain!

 

Oldham

How the public transport investment would affect Oldham

 

The Metrolink would be re-routed through Oldham Town Centre. As well as the tram connecting people to more places, improvements would also be made to bus and rail services, Park and Ride facilities and cycling routes.

 

Metrolink

 

TIF improvements would include:

  • the tram entering the heart of Oldham town centre with new stops at Westwood, Oldham King Street, Oldham Central (Union Street) with a relocated stop at Oldham Mumps
  • on weekdays, trams would run every six minutes from Union Street to Shaw and Manchester city centre
  • an extra station at Kingsway Business Park, between Shaw and Rochdale town centre
  • extensions to Rochdale town centre, Manchester Airport, Ashton-under-Lyne and East Didsbury. Funding has also been earmarked for a potential Trafford Centre extension via the Trafford Park line
  • 62 new trams, 20 miles of additional track and 41 new stops equipped with new ticket machines for ‘Smartcard’ ticketing as well as debit and credit cards
  • there would be a major expansion of Metrolink across Greater Manchester with the capacity to carry an extra 30,000 passengers in each of the morning and evening peak periods
  • Bus improvements
Examples of proposed changes to buses in Oldham include:
  • Greenfield – Oldham – Manchester increased from two to four buses an hour, during Monday to Saturday daytimes; it will link to the Huddersfield /Diggle/Uppermill service at Grasscroft to give eight buses per hour to Oldham, continuing via Copster Hill to Manchester. Evening and Sunday services increased to every 30 minutes
  • the existing Shaw – Rushcroft - Buckstones circular service would be increased from every 30 minutes to every 20 minutes, Mondays to Saturdays. The service will start earlier, finish later and will additionally operate every 30 minutes on Sunday daytimes to provide a local feeder service for Metrolink at Shaw and Crompton station
  • the Shaw – Oldham – Middleton – Manchester service would increase to every seven or eight minutes during the day between Oldham and Manchester (every 20 minutes in the evenings and on Sundays)
  • West Chadderton – Oldham increased from hourly to every 30 minutes during the day, Monday to Saturday. Would start earlier and would be re-routed to serve Royal Oldham Hospital
  • additional circular (orbital) bus services to connect areas outside the city centre
  • 180 Yellow School Buses would be introduced across Greater Manchester providing customised services to schools, with seats allocated to pupils and drivers dedicated to the service
  • These are just some examples of proposed bus service and facility improvements, with Greater Manchester seeing an overall increase of 10% to bus services with more services starting earlier, running later in the evening and at weekends.
  • Rail improvements
  • Extra carriages would be added on peak-time trains using Mills Hill and Greenfield. Also additional refurbishment would take place at Greenfield station.
To reduce overcrowding, there would be extra rail carriages for services across Greater Manchester with capacity for an additional 2,950 passengers in the three hour morning peak period. This is as well as the additional capacity for 4,100 passengers in the three hour morning peak, which would be funded by the Government without TIF.

 

Park and Ride

 

The TIF proposals would double the existing number of Park and Ride spaces serving Greater Manchester. Money has already been dedicated to this and positive feedback in the recent consultations has resulted in additional funds being set aside in re-allocated Local Transport Plan budgets for further sites across the region – funds that might have been invested elsewhere without TIF.

 

Park and Ride facilities at Shaw and Crompton would be expanded. The Chadderton area would benefit from expanded park and ride facilities at Mills Hill.

 

Cycling

 

Improvements for cyclists with 125 miles of cycle routes and cycle parking across Greater Manchester and cycle hire schemes in Manchester and Stockport. Cycle routes planned for Oldham include:

  • cycle facility between Moston and Chadderton for safer cycling away from main roads
  • upgraded route alongside Rochdale canal between the city centre and White Gate
  • a new route between Failsworth and White Gate.
  • there would also be three improved cycle routes crossing the proposed charging rings
  • Improvements for passengers
Further passenger improvements would include:
  • a 20% reduction on public transport fares at peak times for low paid workers (statutory minimum wage)
  • better and more timely travel information via real-time electronic displays and improved safety and security with CCTV, help points and better lighting at stops and stations
  • an integrated ticketing and simplified fare structure using a new ‘Smartcard ticket’ would allow prepayment of fares for travel on trains, trams and buses
  • 80% of the public transport improvements would be in place across Greater Manchester with a significant improvement in public transport in Oldham, before the peak-time congestion charge would begin in summer 2013.

 

sounds great but I can't help thinking that every other "civilized" country I've been to &, especially, some allegedly not so civilized already have far superior public transport to us without paying x amount of pesos or baht for the privilige.

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oh do please explain ? :)

 

''Even if you don’t drive, additional costs to business will be passed on to you through shops, pubs and other outlets.'' - as found in london, damaging a lot of small businesses not just through loss of sales due to increased prices, but due to increased delivery costs ect.

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If people simply avoid going within the M60 ring as a result, every business inside will suffer.

 

The problem there is that many business inside the ring employ people who live outside the ring (e.g. Oldham).

 

If those businesses go under, there would be a ripple effect in to the styx.

 

:lol:

 

Im sorry but thats too funny to even warrant a reply :)

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I see the £5 charge a tax on the ignorant and selfish and I fully support it...

 

So oafc0000, can you please explain why i am ignorant and selfish for not wanting to pay to go to work. I work damn hard and feel justified in wanting to spend my hard earned money on a car so i dont have to stand in the bleedin rain waiting for 2 buses that dont turn up. Maybe i should quit my job and be a layabout pj wearing staffy with a studded collar walking stella during the day swilling leech?

 

You're arrogance to brand others ignorant or selfish is simply quite astounding and i for one think u are well and truly out of order.

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sounds great but I can't help thinking that every other "civilized" country I've been to &, especially, some allegedly not so civilized already have far superior public transport to us without paying x amount of pesos or baht for the privilige.

 

Have you got any idea how much those countries spend on public transport ?

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No... But you can grantee it wont get better if we don't spend anything....

 

i can guarantee it won't get any better if we do and I've got precedent on my side.

 

why not ask governments to stop spending and start getting NHS, Council employees and, especially, managers etc to put a shift in and have a bit of pride in their work like the rest of us in the real world?

 

that'll free up a load of money for trams.

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With 20% of revenue raised from the motorist in the form of fuel tax, VAT on fuel, road tax, car insurance tax etc. actually being spent on the road-user, is the remaining 80% not enough to spend on projects such as this? Or would it be more accurate to say this clueless government have wasted tax revenue over the years without any tangible benefits in many areas of life and cannot fully finance this scheme on it's own?

 

Also, how come the money was found for the first two Metrolink routes without having to resort to extortion?

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ahh you see, i said it wont reduce the traffic in the city centre, where the traffic needs to be reduced the most. because there will always be busieness men who can either afford it or who's companys will pay it!

 

what it will do is reduce the traffic in the ''outter zones'' which wont really make a difference to anyone anyway!

Also, what happened in london after two years was they increased the price of the congestion zone by 60% and area by 50%, and many north west councils inc. OLDHAM refer to possible future charging schemes.

In London the authorities were panic stricken when it actually did reduce congestion in the first few weeks, as they'd already budgeted to spend the money, it reduced the traffic by more than they'd intended. It's reached a stage now where the London charge is small beer compared to what it costs to park in London anyway so people who were going to drive will pay it anyway. Relative to Manchester though there isn't so much of an issue of locals crossing the boundary, as the central London area doesn't have a huge amount of residential housing in it.

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No for me at the moment.

I dont trust these improvements will take place and thats the biggest problem i have the improvemts if they were to happen perfectly they sound OK for me as a non driver but i just cant see it happening and a lot of these improvements are "proposed" to me thats code for "we will change our minds to suit us" at a later date. These plans should be pretty much concreate by now not leaving things open to be changed at a later date people need to know how these changes will effect them with as much accurate info as possible

Ive heard the tram line will replace the rail line at mumps is this true?? - if so thats pointless y replace the train line that runs well and quick and then replace it with a metro that will take the same time as bus (give or take a few mins)

More early buses and more late buses sounds good but id rather more buses at peak times on busy routes instead of running 10 82s every 3 minutes which are usually half empty anyway. First are useless in organising themselves id dispair if they were given any money to play with.

To be honest with the financial situation being the way it is i dont think the charge will get voted in this time around but i could be wrong.

Remeber to vote people

Edited by bluehobbit
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''Even if you don’t drive, additional costs to business will be passed on to you through shops, pubs and other outlets.'' - as found in london, damaging a lot of small businesses not just through loss of sales due to increased prices, but due to increased delivery costs ect.

 

How many companies went bankrupt in London because of the congestion charge ?

 

Costs wont go up much... Companies like DHL will just manage distrubtion with in the city centre more efficiently....just like in they did in London!

 

Blatant scaremongering based on nothing....

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How many companies went bankrupt in London because of the congestion charge ?

 

Costs wont go up much... Companies like DHL will just manage distrubtion with in the city centre more efficiently....just like in they did in London!

 

Blatant scaremongering based on nothing....

 

 

DHL massive company with resources to change operations over night if they wanted to probably

What about smaller companies????? Not having a dig at all - but do u see if having a potentially adverse effect on smaller business who set up in oldham because of its proximity to the city centre or those who may be put off from being based here or setting up here because of the increased costs of driving into the centre?

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DHL massive company with resources to change operations over night if they wanted to probably

What about smaller companies????? Not having a dig at all - but do u see if having a potentially adverse effect on smaller business who set up in oldham because of its proximity to the city centre or those who may be put off from being based here or setting up here because of the increased costs of driving into the centre?

 

You kind of missed the point... DHL are a delivery firm... Delivery costs will not rise much...

 

Small business in Oldham will not be negatively effected...

 

Better transport links can only improve the town...

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OAFC0000, how many countries bus services are as fragmented as ours? I worked for a Bus company shortly after deregulation, and to be honest it was a bad day for public transport in this country. My sons buy weekly savers for their work/college journeys. They can't hop on any bus they like, as the fare isn't valid on all operators. To obtain a network wide pass becomes expensive, and as has already been said the service is poor.

 

Son number 2 was on the bus to college, when the bus broke down. Another bus (different operator) turned up and my son asked the driver of the broken bus if he'd be able to continue his journey on that bus. The driver said yes, but you'll have to pay your fare again. My son argued they are obliged to conclude his journey at no extra cost, the driver said 'yes I know.......the replacement bus will be here in half an hour'. To avoid being late he had to fork out the new fare.

 

More money for a service like that? Not likely.

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How many companies went bankrupt in London because of the congestion charge ?

 

Costs wont go up much... Companies like DHL will just manage distrubtion with in the city centre more efficiently....just like in they did in London!

 

Blatant scaremongering based on nothing....

It's impossible to quantify, for the same reason as it's impossible to centrally plan an infinitely complex system like public transport for a large system. I can tell you for a fact that the various London charges (C-charge, parking etc) have caused a number of businesses to close, and imposed very sever burdens on others. At the margin, this means less business and less jobs, and lower wages for those who still have a job.

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You kind of missed the point... DHL are a delivery firm... Delivery costs will not rise much...

 

Small business in Oldham will not be negatively effected...

 

Better transport links can only improve the town...

 

Considerable if you factor in the extra money for the charge to the individual and increased operating costs which will be passed on to the customer.

 

Affected.

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