garcon Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Now I just go out of sheer dogged loyalty and a wish to see the club survive in the long-term. I find it difficult, after the last decade, to imagine the club actually thriving, however. I hope one day your loyalty is rewarded by proving your outlook to be pessimistic. The club could do with two or three thousand more fans continuing to go out of sheer dogged loyalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 What recovered ground has been lost then? Shall I be just as selective at choosing my seasons bench mark? So up to say Yeovil we had indeed lost ground with the 2 successive away defeats but at the end of that game with Yeovil we were 1 point outside the playoffs, 4 off second, 5 off top. Now we're 3 points clear in the play offs 4 off second 6 off top, hardly losing ground eh? Anyway nice to see you set the seasons benchmark at 6 games in, when we were top, how logical and utterly credible of you. Lets be honest though when we were top you'd still have been using the phrase "I still don't feel optimistic" How many times? I'm not interested in logic or credibilty. I just want out of this divsion, and you only usually get that by winning most of your games, particularly against those sides not challenging for promotion. I'll leave the logic to you. Hey-that could be your name; you remind me of that Viz character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I just want us to get to an automatic promotion place and stay there. Latics sides in the past have managed it; why not this one? Because the gap between divisions wasn't the gulf of class that it is now? Ahhh, but other clubs the same size as ours know how to do it don't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I hope one day your loyalty is rewarded by proving your outlook to be pessimistic. The club could do with two or three thousand more fans continuing to go out of sheer dogged loyalty. As I and others have side many times-we all know plenty of Latics who've lost their faith in this horrible past decade. Most of them don't attend BP any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Because the gap between divisions wasn't the gulf of class that it is now? Ahhh, but other clubs the same size as ours know how to do it don't they? I don't accept that Barnsley or Blackpool are bigger or 'classier' than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 How many times? I'm not interested in logic or credibilty. I just want out of this divsion, and you only usually get that by winning most of your games, particularly against those sides not challenging for promotion. Hmmm. Hang on a mo, wouldn't winning games against sides in and around us have more of an impact on pushing up the league considering we'd be then taking points off them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I don't accept that Barnsley or Blackpool are bigger or 'classier' than us. Based on what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Hmmm. Hang on a mo, wouldn't winning games against sides in and around us have more of an impact on pushing up the league considering we'd be then taking points off them? The best thing is winning against whoever we come up against. It's what success in football is built on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Based on what? On anything. Blackpool might have won summat or other in 5,000 BC, but had been down in the dumps far longer than we have, and can't command support any bigger than we would in the division above. Barnsley but might currently be able to attract bigger crowds due to being in a cushy geographical position, but historically they're less succesful than we are. It's a sad pass we've come to if hardcore fans think we're smaller than Barnsley or Blackpool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Barnsley but might currently be able to attract bigger crowds due to being in a cushy geographical position, but historically they're less succesful than we are. It's a sad pass we've come to if hardcore fans think we're smaller than Barnsley or Blackpool. Is that right then? We won the FA Cup then did we? Historically? We've won no more than what Barnsley have won. Historically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 (edited) Is that right then? We won the FA Cup then did we? Historically? We've won no more than what Barnsley have won. Historically. I can, due to childhood anorakness, remember most FA Cup winners, but failed to recall Barnsley's. What year was it? And how does winning the cup donkey's years ago make a club bigger or 'classier' than us? On that criteria we'd be smaller than Bury. Edited December 8, 2008 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 I can, due to childhood anorakness, remember most FA Cup winners, but failed to recall Barnsley's. What year was it? And how does winning the cup donkey's years ago make a club bigger or 'classier' than us? On that criteria we'd be smaller than Bury. It was 1911 I think. And anyway, it was to point out the gaping hole in your statement about them being less successful historically than we are. You see, I take historically to mean the whole of time, rather than since the 1989-90 season. Mind you, we won the Lancashire cup 3 times. Would it be unfair to include it given Barnley aren't qualifyable for that? I'll clarify one thing, I never said they are 'classier' than us; that's you doing your quote-what-you-feel-like thing innit? I actually said "because of the gulf in class" between divisions. Granted, there will be a few teams in all divisions who are punching above their conceived weight - Fulham, Wigan, Stoke in the Premier:censored:e. Blackpool, Barnsley, Doncaster in the Championship. Altrincham and Lewes in the Conference thingummybob. But there is certainly a gulf in class between the top 3 divisions generated by the flooding of money. And when there wasn't a gulf in class, such as in 1991 for example, that's when Latics could manage it. You never know, if we persevere we might even get the chance to punch above our weight again in the not too distant future. Maybe your getting cold feet because you might not be alive to enjoy* it. * Or in your case, winge, squeal and moan because it costs about £10 more to get in than it already does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 (edited) It was 1911 I think. And anyway, it was to point out the gaping hole in your statement about them being less successful historically than we are. You see, I take historically to mean the whole of time, rather than since the 1989-90 season. Mind you, we won the Lancashire cup 3 times. Would it be unfair to include it given Barnley aren't qualifyable for that? I'll clarify one thing, I never said they are 'classier' than us; that's you doing your quote-what-you-feel-like thing innit? I actually said "because of the gulf in class" between divisions. Granted, there will be a few teams in all divisions who are punching above their conceived weight - Fulham, Wigan, Stoke in the Premier:censored:e. Blackpool, Barnsley, Doncaster in the Championship. Altrincham and Lewes in the Conference thingummybob. But there is certainly a gulf in class between the top 3 divisions generated by the flooding of money. And when there wasn't a gulf in class, such as in 1991 for example, that's when Latics could manage it. You never know, if we persevere we might even get the chance to punch above our weight again in the not too distant future. Maybe your getting cold feet because you might not be alive to enjoy* it. * Or in your case, winge, squeal and moan because it costs about £10 more to get in than it already does. I think you might be mistaking me for somebody else. I might often say that football is absurdly expensive now, but I've never claimed that prices could be lowered by the club. To do so, in the present climate, would be financial suicide. It doesn't matter that Barnsley won the cup nigh on 100 years ago; for most of their history they've been around the same level as us. A club's stature in no way depends on a period of winning things amidst a sea on which you've coasted along unsuccessfully. Sheffield Wednesday, for example, have won more league titles than Manchester City, but few people would try to claim that they're a bigger club than City. I agree that a gulf in class has opened up due to the way that football in this country is now financially structured, and that we have suffered by having plumped for the suicide option at the very moment that unprecedented money came flooding into the game at higher levels. As I've pointed out before, the stature of the club has shrunk significantly over the past decade. I think it has yet to sink in with some fans that if we don't get out of this division sooner rather than later, the future of professional football in the town is open to question, particularly now that a severe economic crisis seems imminent. Edited December 8, 2008 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 The comparison I always think of is Bolton. Look at our relative fortunes over the past two decades. I see no reason why, in a different but identical world, we could not be where Bolton are now. That's not necessarily to blame anyone, the club, the fans, the manager(s), the owners past and present - just a simple truth. The saddening thing is that it will be so much harder over the next two decades to make the same progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeTripe Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 How many times? I'm not interested in logic or credibilty. I just want out of this divsion, and you only usually get that by winning most of your games, particularly against those sides not challenging for promotion. I'll leave the logic to you. Hey-that could be your name; you remind me of that Viz character. Forest didn't win most of their games, in fact less than half, mind they probably didn't slip up against teams not challenging eh? Chortle! Mr Logic, wow good one, fair sliced through me like a rapier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeTripe Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I just want us to get to an automatic promotion place and stay there. Latics sides in the past have managed it; why not this one? Well yes the usual sweeping generalisation from is partly right. The 90/91 stuck at the top like glue, mind they didn't win in 21 of the games that season, tsk dropping points against numerous non contenders along the way, Oxford, Bristol Rovers, Port Vale, Newcastle and even relegated Hull & WBA all stealing points from JR's all conquering battlers. Worse though, and it shows you perhaps shouldn't make such off the cuff tosh, it didn't look so good 21 games in 35 years ago, they weren't managing to stay in that automatic promotion place! As this 'ere linky will show, tsk damn stats eh. 01/01/1974 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Well yes the usual sweeping generalisation from is partly right. The 90/91 stuck at the top like glue, mind they didn't win in 21 of the games that season, tsk dropping points against numerous non contenders along the way, Oxford, Bristol Rovers, Port Vale, Newcastle and even relegated Hull & WBA all stealing points from JR's all conquering battlers. Worse though, and it shows you perhaps shouldn't make such off the cuff tosh, it didn't look so good 21 games in 35 years ago, they weren't managing to stay in that automatic promotion place! As this 'ere linky will show, tsk damn stats eh. 01/01/1974 Don't be so excitable that your writing style suffers. The above is barely readable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeTripe Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 (edited) Don't be so excitable that your writing style suffers. The above is barely readable. Good one, yes shouldn't post in haste, I was so excited I waited a day between posting, I had intended to post the previous day but tempus fudgeit as they say. So anyway do you agree that the team of 73/74 grabbed an automatic promotion place and held on to it or not, you know like what you said? Just curious like. Anyway I have re edited my barely readable effort just for you, the parts I missed in haste I've highlighted. Again one does so apologise for confusing you, although it doesn't seem to hard. Well yes the usual sweeping generalisation from you is partly right. The 90/91 team stuck at the top like glue, mind they didn't win in 21 of the games that season. Tsk dropping points against numerous non contenders along the way, Oxford, Bristol Rovers, Port Vale, Newcastle and even relegated Hull & WBA all stealing points from JR's all conquering battlers. Worse though, and it shows you perhaps shouldn't make such off the cuff tosh, it didn't look so good 21 games in to the season 35 years ago, they (Latics) weren't managing to stay in that automatic promotion place then ! As this 'ere linky will show, tsk damn stats eh. 01/01/1974 Edited December 10, 2008 by StipeTripe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 (edited) Stipe, your link does show that Latics were off the pace. But they also had 3 games in hand? Am I missing the point? Edited December 10, 2008 by Stitch_KTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeTripe Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Stipe, your link does show that Latics were off the pace. But they also had 3 games in hand? Am I missing the point? Yes. The illusion was that previous Latics teams grabbed an automatic promotion place and hung on to it. 01/01/74 they were 7 points off them, in fact with 1 game in hand and only 2 points for a win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Yes. The illusion was that previous Latics teams grabbed an automatic promotion place and hung on to it. 01/01/74 they were 7 points off them, in fact with 1 game in hand and only 2 points for a win! Yes-but they were better and more committed than the current lot, were together longer (as opposed to being just passng through like many players at most Div 3 sides now), and few played just for the money, which was paltry by comparison with today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeTripe Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Yes-but they were better and more committed than the current lot, were together longer (as opposed to being just passng through like many players at most Div 3 sides now), and few played just for the money, which was paltry by comparison with today. Did I question commitment? Or if they played just for the money, paltry or not. The question was to you, regarding your bogus statement, it went like this...... So anyway do you agree that the team of 73/74 grabbed an automatic promotion place and held on to it or not, you know like what you said? Just curious like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Yes-but they were better and more committed than the current lot, were together longer (as opposed to being just passng through like many players at most Div 3 sides now), and few played just for the money, which was paltry by comparison with today. Maybe true in all aspects, regarding committment, money etc, though unless you find a football tardis and pop back 30 years, you'd better get used to i think. Times have moved on Corp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Did I question commitment? Or if they played just for the money, paltry or not. The question was to you, regarding your bogus statement, it went like this...... So anyway do you agree that the team of 73/74 grabbed an automatic promotion place and held on to it or not, you know like what you said? Just curious like. I never even mentioned the 1973/74 side. You seem to be so obsessed with winning the argument that you begin to imagine things, or read into other posters statements whatever you want. (You are not alone in this.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Maybe true in all aspects, regarding committment, money etc, though unless you find a football tardis and pop back 30 years, you'd better get used to i think. Times have moved on Corp! Like most people, I'm only too used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.