johnny punkster Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 It's a trade off. I can't remember bugger all about Latics when I was a little 'un As a late seasonal note, the 3 Kings of Biblical fame were Iranians, as was Freddie Mercury by descent. And my mate Jon on the same principal. he was of zoroastrian decent...(wonderful thing wiki!!),but it must have been wayyyy back. his parents though where from bombay. anyway,back on topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Here is the Hamas version of proportionality: Suicide bombers in nightclubs, shops and buses packed with innocent, defenseless civilians. you're right,but the thing is,as previously mention,the IDF are supposed to play the rules of RoE. hamas are a terrorist organisation-they rip up the rules. still not right though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 he was of zoroastrian decent Or Parsees, as they are alternatively known... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Or Parsees, as they are alternatively known... now i KNOW you didn't look that up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Here is the Hamas version of proportionality: Suicide bombers in nightclubs, shops and buses packed with innocent, defenseless civilians. Isn't the difference that nobody is trying to say that Hamas is right to do those things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Isn't the difference that nobody is trying to say that Hamas is right to do those things? Do they not ? There'll be a fair few 'sympathisers' on the streets of your fair city today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Do they not ? There'll be a fair few 'sympathisers' on the streets of your fair city today. If you want to go down that road, I saw people out protesting against the Israeli actions last night when I was up in town. Also some supporting Israel. I didn't see any placards in favour of suicide bombing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) i'm too old for the army now , and this post will go on for years as there is now way there will be peace here with hamas / iran backed terroists as they both with hizbollar want to wipe israel and all the jewish people of the face of this earth .. and the only army i belong to is shez blue and white army Edited January 10, 2009 by boboafc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 i'm too old for the army now , and this post will go on for years as there is now way there will be peace here with hamas / iran backed terroists as they both with hizbollar want to wipe israel and all the jewish people of the face of this earth Round and round in circles we go. Neither will there be peace whilst there are people who believe that having a certain religious belief, or being descended from people who had that religious belief, gives them a God given right to live in a certain part of the world in spite of the interests of the people who have lived there for the past several thousand years. And I have to say Bob - I remember your remark on the old official message board when that Brazilian was mistakenly killed on the Underground, before it was found out that he wasn't a bomber - and you ought to reflect before you accuse anyone else of wanting to kill everyone who is a member of a different religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Are we allowed to pick sides on this? Are we allowed to pick sides on different conflicts (I don't know, 9/11?) Let's face it neither are solvable without complete obliteration of the opposition. With Israel, they both want the same land - they will both die for it. The only problem is that in my lifetime, they will probably both die for it (or a many many thousands). Although I see others commitment, I hope you'll also see mine. You want to kill yourselves, feel free. Just don't involve me even if we (Englanders) started it. And both sides, don't ask for my sympathy either as I wouldn't ask for yours when we slaughter the Scots in a few years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 i mean,the british army never went round bombing anything they though was a reasonable target in n. ireland ,DAY IN DAY OUT did they? things did happen that where deservingly condemed (bloody sunday etc),but whats happened in the last 2+weeks over there has been just OTT. Not in Northern Ireland but I doubt many bombing campaigns ever will compare to what the British did to Dresden in WW2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Not in Northern Ireland but I doubt many bombing campaigns ever will compare to what the British did to Dresden in WW2. what..like nagasaki..hiroshima? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I wonder how Israel will try to defend firing white phosphorous shells into Gaza's main UN compound (thus effectively halting any hope of UN relief for Gaza inhabitants)? Are they going to tell us the UN are hiding Hamas rockets now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 I thought Willie Pete's were deemed unauthorised for operations by the UN? I mean, there's killing people and then there's using WP grenades/shells.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I wonder how Israel will try to defend firing white phosphorous shells into Gaza's main UN compound (thus effectively halting any hope of UN relief for Gaza inhabitants)? Are they going to tell us the UN are hiding Hamas rockets now? ENEVA – The international Red Cross said Tuesday that Israel has fired white phosphorus shells in its offensive in the Gaza Strip, but has no evidence to suggest the incendiary agent is being used improperly or illegally. The comments came after a human rights organization accused the Jewish state of using white phosphorus, hich ignites when it strikes the skin and burns straight through or until it is cut off from oxygen. It can cause horrific injuries. The International Committee of the Red Cross urged Israel to exercise "extreme caution" in using the incendiary agent, which is used to illuminate targets at night or create a smoke screen for day attacks, said Peter Herby, the head of the organization's mines-arms unit. "In some of the strikes in Gaza it's pretty clear that phosphorus was used," Herby told The Associated Press. "But it's not very unusual to use phosphorus to create smoke or illuminate a target. We have no evidence to suggest it's being used in any other way." In response, the Israeli military said Tuesday that it "wishes to reiterate that it uses weapons in compliance with international law, while strictly observing that they be used in accordance with the type of combat and its characteristics." Herby said that using phosphorus to illuminate a target or create smoke is legitimate under international law, and that there was no evidence the Jewish state was intentionally using phosphorus in a questionable way, such as burning down buildings or consciously putting civilians at risk However, Herby said evidence is still limited because of the difficulties of gaining access to Gaza, where Palestinian health officials say more than 900 people have been killed and 4,250 wounded since Israel launched its offensive late last month. Israel says the operation aims to halt years of Palestinian rocket attacks over the border. Human Rights Watch has accused Israel of firing phosphorous shells and warned of the possibilities of extreme fire and civilian injuries. The chemical is suspected in the cases of 10 burn victims who had skin peeling off their faces and bodies. White phosphorus is not considered a chemical weapon. This article can be found at: http://ws.collactive.com/points/point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 All true Bob. White phosphorous is not illegal, but when fighting in an urban environment full of civilians one might hope its use would be considered very carefully. To be honest Bob, none of what I post here is specifically aimed at you - it would be extremely unfair of me to ask you personally to justify what your country's military does to defend itself (and you as one of its citizens). The nearest situation most of us Brits have experienced is Northern Ireland. And I bet an awful lot of us would have considered anything British forces did (or might have done) in NI to halt mainland IRA bombing as fair game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) All true Bob. White phosphorous is not illegal, but when fighting in an urban environment full of civilians one might hope its use would be considered very carefully. To be honest Bob, none of what I post here is specifically aimed at you - it would be extremely unfair of me to ask you personally to justify what your country's military does to defend itself (and you as one of its citizens). The nearest situation most of us Brits have experienced is Northern Ireland. And I bet an awful lot of us would have considered anything British forces did (or might have done) in NI to halt mainland IRA bombing as fair game. all countries have a right to defend themselves from terroists , but in israel they are all around us hizbollar in lebanon, hamas in the gaza and al qyadda, iran all want to wipe israel off the map , i was gald that we attacked hamas in the gaza strip as they have been fireing rockets for over 8 years here and it had to stop , but when i see young kids and babies killed and innocent people killed it hurts me , but there is 1problem that the hamas scum are cowards they fire rockets from school's innocent people houses knowing well that when they fire the army will fire back at the terroists and innocent people get killed because of it , i hope there will be a cease fire ,but the problem is hamas will no use suicide bombers in our bus's school shops etc , sadly bloodshed here is a way of life , why do you think i carry a gun with me when i got out , to protect my family .. Edited January 15, 2009 by boboafc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 You're bombing the UN as well! Well done! However your country tries to twist it. No problem with fighting against terrorists if thats what actually happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 The nearest situation most of us Brits have experienced is Northern Ireland. And I bet an awful lot of us would have considered anything British forces did (or might have done) in NI to halt mainland IRA bombing as fair game. Or to look at it the other way – how many people on here would be up for firing a rocket or two if they lived in the same concentration camp* their grandparents had been born in and which there was every possibility their grandchildren will be born in? More than a few I suspect. * To clarify, I mean concentration camp in it's correct sense, not implying death camp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 this is why israel is at war hamas are terroists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 its all "eye for an eye". as the great boy george said.. "war is stupid and people are stupid" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 why do you think i carry a gun with me when i got out , to protect my family .. I'm sorry that you need to carry a gun to protect your family and that you live in such a spirit of fear Bob. Let me ask you a genuine counter-question though. Supposing that the Arabs who have been thrown out of their homeland and dispersed around the world or been imprisoned, penned in for decades into horrible slums military controlled slums, kept permanently deprived, seen their children shot at and so on, decided to seek a new homeland where they could be in control of their destiny. Suppose they decided that Royton and Chadderton was their new homeland. They then spent a number of years buying crucial assets in Royton, Chadderton and surrounding areas and strategically important pieces of land which enabled them to force further landowners out of their properties. Eventually, the Arabs had enough control and got some outside help and took over the councils. All the Roytoners and Chaddertonians were driven from their homes and made to go and live in Shaw, to sleep in tents with no hope of any future for themselves or their families. Some folk in Tameside tried to intervene, so the New Oldham Government took half of Tameside as well. Although it said it would give it back at some point. So now we have refugees living in terrible conditions in Shaw, and not much better in Tameside. Oldham Council says it wants to be friends and only live in Oldham, but it plans nice new council estates in Shaw and Tameside, only people from Tameside and Shaw, or the people who used to live in Royton and Chadderton, can't live in them. Stockport, Burnley, West Yorkshire and other councils are sympathetic to the plight but aren't strong enough to intervene against the new mighty Oldham Council. Encouraged by the power of the Oldham Council, Palestinian Arabs from the diaspora around the world decide to go there. Many of them actually have no ancestral relationship with the land of Oldham at all, but they feel entitled because they share a religion with their fellow burghers. Oldham is by now one of the world's strongest military powers. Kids in Tameside eventually despair and start throwing stones at Oldham police. They are shot at. Israeli troops invade Huddersfield to attempt to quell a group of Chadderton refugees there, only to find that the locals don't like it, and kick the Israelis out with help from their rich mates in Keighly. Eventually, it all leads to some level of talks. Most people don't want to talk about Shaw - the bit we forgot about - as it was always a hell hole and what you do with it when there are 1.5 million refugees in it after 50 years, nobody knows. However, the Shaw Bovver Boyz and the Oldham Council agree a 6 month truce. This is broken by the Oldham Council bombing Shaw 3 days before the end of the truce. Shaw Boyz begin throwing stones. Oldham carries on bombing. Oldham sends the tanks in. Who are the brave people in this fight? Who are the heroes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 as the great boy george said.. "war is stupid and people are stupid" as a side order(and way off topic) it seems boy george falls into the "people are stupid" catagory big style.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7832565.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Becketts Anchor Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 this is why israel is at war hamas are terroists You don't get it do you Bob? NOBODY here is defending Hamas. Nobody disputes that they are evil terrorists. But groups like Hamas will not be defeated militarily. The disproportionate Israeli action will only serve as a recruitment tool for Hamas. What will be the reaction of those bombed and shelled in their homes - will it make them realise that Israel is actually a friendly, peaceful nation? Or will they buy into all the propaganda fed to them by Hamas and similar groups? Parallels have been drawn between the current conflict and the Irish troubles. Should the RAF have bombed Nationalist areas? Would it have helped? I don't think so. A few days ago, the Palestinian death toll reached 1000. Bob, how many Israelis have been killed by Hamas rockets and suicide bombs in, say, the last 5 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) You don't get it do you Bob? NOBODY here is defending Hamas. Nobody disputes that they are evil terrorists. But groups like Hamas will not be defeated militarily. The disproportionate Israeli action will only serve as a recruitment tool for Hamas. What will be the reaction of those bombed and shelled in their homes - will it make them realise that Israel is actually a friendly, peaceful nation? Or will they buy into all the propaganda fed to them by Hamas and similar groups? Parallels have been drawn between the current conflict and the Irish troubles. Should the RAF have bombed Nationalist areas? Would it have helped? I don't think so. A few days ago, the Palestinian death toll reached 1000. Bob, how many Israelis have been killed by Hamas rockets and suicide bombs in, say, the last 5 years? It's not just Bob who doesn't get it, unfortunately. In this latest conflict, it's obvious that the IDF has been deploying some sort of exponential escalation tactic. Each day, they've done something no one though they would ever do. The Government spokesman then goes on the telly that night and basically says, with as straight a face as he can manage: "The UN school was all in a day's work, wait and see what we're going to do next." The next night, he's on saying: "Those people we bombed after we shepherded them into that house? Child's play. We've got plenty more than that in the drawer." Hopefully (some will say that this is a forlorn hope) they'll get back in their box after next Tuesday, but what gives before then? What next? Edited January 16, 2009 by 24hoursfromtulsehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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