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School Flattened by IDF


Matt

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You don't get it do you Bob?

 

NOBODY here is defending Hamas. Nobody disputes that they are evil terrorists.

 

But groups like Hamas will not be defeated militarily. The disproportionate Israeli action will only serve as a recruitment tool for Hamas. What will be the reaction of those bombed and shelled in their homes - will it make them realise that Israel is actually a friendly, peaceful nation? Or will they buy into all the propaganda fed to them by Hamas and similar groups? Parallels have been drawn between the current conflict and the Irish troubles. Should the RAF have bombed Nationalist areas? Would it have helped? I don't think so.

 

A few days ago, the Palestinian death toll reached 1000. Bob, how many Israelis have been killed by Hamas rockets and suicide bombs in, say, the last 5 years?

over 600 killed and 7000 hurt

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Last night I posted a reply thanking Bob for his answer, and with a link to the comments of a prominent Jewish MP (from the BBC web site). This post seems to have been deleted! :shock:

:shock:

 

I read an article about Gerald Kauffman, a long time supporter of Israel, saying that he resented people refering to the Holocaust in defence of current actions. Said his grandmother wasn't murdered in her bed to justify Palestinian grandmothers being murdered in their beds, was it that? To be far nobody has used that line in this debate here.

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:shock:

 

I read an article about Gerald Kauffman, a long time supporter of Israel, saying that he resented people refering to the Holocaust in defence of current actions. Said his grandmother wasn't murdered in her bed to justify Palestinian grandmothers being murdered in their beds, was it that? To be far nobody has used that line in this debate here.

 

Several long-term supporters of Israel, who in the past have excused or gone along with all sorts of atrocities, are turning their backs now. This might be the worst thing the IDF has ever done.

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I read an article about Gerald Kauffman, a long time supporter of Israel, saying that he resented people refering to the Holocaust in defence of current actions. Said his grandmother wasn't murdered in her bed to justify Palestinian grandmothers being murdered in their beds, was it that? To be far nobody has used that line in this debate here.

 

Yes, that was it. I find it strange and worrying that someone should see fit to delete a link to a quote from a British MP on the BBC News website.

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http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-fea...aza-peace-rally

 

I really cannot understand where this 'love-in' between the Reds/Socialists and all things Islam comes from. To me, Hamas/Iran/Saddam are about as near to Fascism as you can get yet the SWP will champion the pro-Islam cause at every opportunity.

 

Same when it comes to racist attacks....it always seems to be an attack on a person from an ethnic minority (usually of Indian sub-continent heritage) that springs the SWP into protest....never do they spring into protest when a white person is the victim.

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Funnily enough I said to someone a couple of days back I thought Israel might declare a ceasefire, a few more rockets will go over from Hamas and Israel will use it as justification for going in even harder..I hope I'm wrong

well as you wrote it 5more rockets were fired into ashdohd and askelon tonight

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I suppose it wouldn't be that straight forward as both sides stopping when Israel says so. I look at this cease-fire similar to the Russian incident last year, take up positions in OPFOR territory and then call a cease-fire when it suits the aggressor.

 

Both as bad as each other in my view, both are worryingly short sighted about their goals, and both equally hold no value on the loss of human life....

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Both as bad as each other in my view, both are worryingly short sighted about their goals, and both equally hold no value on the loss of human life....

 

 

which pretty sums up my thoughts on religion...because lets face it,apart from the land snatch,this has a huge factor on these troubles.

muslim and jewish religions...peaceful religions?

not much evidence to suggest such.

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http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-fea...aza-peace-rally

 

I really cannot understand where this 'love-in' between the Reds/Socialists and all things Islam comes from. To me, Hamas/Iran/Saddam are about as near to Fascism as you can get yet the SWP will champion the pro-Islam cause at every opportunity.

 

Same when it comes to racist attacks....it always seems to be an attack on a person from an ethnic minority (usually of Indian sub-continent heritage) that springs the SWP into protest....never do they spring into protest when a white person is the victim.

You may find that many people who hold no love for either socialism or Islam still find this war despicable.

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which pretty sums up my thoughts on religion...because lets face it,apart from the land snatch,this has a huge factor on these troubles.

muslim and jewish religions...peaceful religions?

not much evidence to suggest such.

 

FFS, Judaism and Israel are not the same thing.

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so they ain't seperable?

 

Torah teaching does not influence foreign policy. It barely impacts domestic policy.

 

EDIT: to futher this point, Sri Lanka is about 70% Buddhist...one would hardly call the actions of its government and a section of its people peaceful, yet most would label Buddhism a peaceful religion.

Edited by jsslatic
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ok,so this isn't a jewish/muslim (or releated -directly or indirectly) problem then?

thanks for clearing that up.

 

The protaganists are a Jewish state and a largely Muslim 'state'. There are of course religious tensions, a long standing and deep-rooted conflict in the region.

 

Your initial statement indicated Judaism is not a peaceful religion on the basis of Israel's actions. This is a quite simply ridiculous statement, representing little or no knowledge of the Torah and the Israeli culture, demographics and politics.

 

I'd argue Islam is a peaceful religion too, but that would be going off hearsay and I wouldn't make a statement, that I believe to be true from what I have been told etc, without having some facts to back it up. What I do know is that the bits of the Qu'ran which people claim make it bloodthirsty are highly open to interpretation, and the radical elements of Islam use those as their excuse for violence.

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There are many Christians and even Muslims in Israel, so it is by no means exclusively a Jewish state. Although the fact it exists at all is somewhat tied to Judaism.

 

If Israel WAS an exclusively Jewish state, do you think it would allow some of Christianity and Islam's most sacred sites to continue to exist (and be accessible) in Jerusalem?

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