boboafc Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 You don't get it do you Bob? NOBODY here is defending Hamas. Nobody disputes that they are evil terrorists. But groups like Hamas will not be defeated militarily. The disproportionate Israeli action will only serve as a recruitment tool for Hamas. What will be the reaction of those bombed and shelled in their homes - will it make them realise that Israel is actually a friendly, peaceful nation? Or will they buy into all the propaganda fed to them by Hamas and similar groups? Parallels have been drawn between the current conflict and the Irish troubles. Should the RAF have bombed Nationalist areas? Would it have helped? I don't think so. A few days ago, the Palestinian death toll reached 1000. Bob, how many Israelis have been killed by Hamas rockets and suicide bombs in, say, the last 5 years? over 600 killed and 7000 hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 over 600 killed and 7000 hurt I suspect that includes soldiers killed and injured by Lebanese soldiers and civilians legitimately defending their country against illegal invasion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Becketts Anchor Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Last night I posted a reply thanking Bob for his answer, and with a link to the comments of a prominent Jewish MP (from the BBC web site). This post seems to have been deleted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Last night I posted a reply thanking Bob for his answer, and with a link to the comments of a prominent Jewish MP (from the BBC web site). This post seems to have been deleted! I read an article about Gerald Kauffman, a long time supporter of Israel, saying that he resented people refering to the Holocaust in defence of current actions. Said his grandmother wasn't murdered in her bed to justify Palestinian grandmothers being murdered in their beds, was it that? To be far nobody has used that line in this debate here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I read an article about Gerald Kauffman, a long time supporter of Israel, saying that he resented people refering to the Holocaust in defence of current actions. Said his grandmother wasn't murdered in her bed to justify Palestinian grandmothers being murdered in their beds, was it that? To be far nobody has used that line in this debate here. Several long-term supporters of Israel, who in the past have excused or gone along with all sorts of atrocities, are turning their backs now. This might be the worst thing the IDF has ever done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Becketts Anchor Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I read an article about Gerald Kauffman, a long time supporter of Israel, saying that he resented people refering to the Holocaust in defence of current actions. Said his grandmother wasn't murdered in her bed to justify Palestinian grandmothers being murdered in their beds, was it that? To be far nobody has used that line in this debate here. Yes, that was it. I find it strange and worrying that someone should see fit to delete a link to a quote from a British MP on the BBC News website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I suspect that includes soldiers killed and injured by Lebanese soldiers and civilians legitimately defending their country against illegal invasion? no people killed on buses in shops etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-fea...aza-peace-rally I really cannot understand where this 'love-in' between the Reds/Socialists and all things Islam comes from. To me, Hamas/Iran/Saddam are about as near to Fascism as you can get yet the SWP will champion the pro-Islam cause at every opportunity. Same when it comes to racist attacks....it always seems to be an attack on a person from an ethnic minority (usually of Indian sub-continent heritage) that springs the SWP into protest....never do they spring into protest when a white person is the victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 in a few minutes here the pm will be on tv saying i think a cease fire will be called by israel , but hamas refuse to call a cease fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 israel has called a cease fire ,but one sided cease fire hamas refuse to call a cease fire , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 cease fire from 2 am israel time thats 24..0 uk time , now lets see if hamas carry on firing rockets after 2am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebOAFC Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Funnily enough I said to someone a couple of days back I thought Israel might declare a ceasefire, a few more rockets will go over from Hamas and Israel will use it as justification for going in even harder..I hope I'm wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Funnily enough I said to someone a couple of days back I thought Israel might declare a ceasefire, a few more rockets will go over from Hamas and Israel will use it as justification for going in even harder..I hope I'm wrong well as you wrote it 5more rockets were fired into ashdohd and askelon tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 NO PLANES TANKS FIREING TODAY , BUT HAMAS FIRES 7ROCKETS IN THE TOWNS HERE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 I suppose it wouldn't be that straight forward as both sides stopping when Israel says so. I look at this cease-fire similar to the Russian incident last year, take up positions in OPFOR territory and then call a cease-fire when it suits the aggressor. Both as bad as each other in my view, both are worryingly short sighted about their goals, and both equally hold no value on the loss of human life.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Both as bad as each other in my view, both are worryingly short sighted about their goals, and both equally hold no value on the loss of human life.... which pretty sums up my thoughts on religion...because lets face it,apart from the land snatch,this has a huge factor on these troubles. muslim and jewish religions...peaceful religions? not much evidence to suggest such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-fea...aza-peace-rally I really cannot understand where this 'love-in' between the Reds/Socialists and all things Islam comes from. To me, Hamas/Iran/Saddam are about as near to Fascism as you can get yet the SWP will champion the pro-Islam cause at every opportunity. Same when it comes to racist attacks....it always seems to be an attack on a person from an ethnic minority (usually of Indian sub-continent heritage) that springs the SWP into protest....never do they spring into protest when a white person is the victim. You may find that many people who hold no love for either socialism or Islam still find this war despicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 which pretty sums up my thoughts on religion...because lets face it,apart from the land snatch,this has a huge factor on these troubles. muslim and jewish religions...peaceful religions? not much evidence to suggest such. FFS, Judaism and Israel are not the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 FFS, Judaism and Israel are not the same thing. so they ain't seperable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) so they ain't seperable? Torah teaching does not influence foreign policy. It barely impacts domestic policy. EDIT: to futher this point, Sri Lanka is about 70% Buddhist...one would hardly call the actions of its government and a section of its people peaceful, yet most would label Buddhism a peaceful religion. Edited January 18, 2009 by jsslatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 ok,so this isn't a jewish/muslim (or releated -directly or indirectly) problem then? thanks for clearing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Hamas HAVE called an immediate ceasefire. Let's hope it holds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 ok,so this isn't a jewish/muslim (or releated -directly or indirectly) problem then? thanks for clearing that up. The protaganists are a Jewish state and a largely Muslim 'state'. There are of course religious tensions, a long standing and deep-rooted conflict in the region. Your initial statement indicated Judaism is not a peaceful religion on the basis of Israel's actions. This is a quite simply ridiculous statement, representing little or no knowledge of the Torah and the Israeli culture, demographics and politics. I'd argue Islam is a peaceful religion too, but that would be going off hearsay and I wouldn't make a statement, that I believe to be true from what I have been told etc, without having some facts to back it up. What I do know is that the bits of the Qu'ran which people claim make it bloodthirsty are highly open to interpretation, and the radical elements of Islam use those as their excuse for violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 there is good and bad in every religion in this world. but the fact the israeli country is a jewish state kind of weaves themselves together. the actions of both sides for the last few decades haven't promoted much in the process of understanding,peace and harmony have they? eye for and eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 There are many Christians and even Muslims in Israel, so it is by no means exclusively a Jewish state. Although the fact it exists at all is somewhat tied to Judaism. If Israel WAS an exclusively Jewish state, do you think it would allow some of Christianity and Islam's most sacred sites to continue to exist (and be accessible) in Jerusalem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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