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Benitez on Taggart/ManUre - Telling it like it is!


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Regular readers, and especially all the Red fans on here, will not be surprised at my support for anything perceived as anti-ManUre. So I applaud Rafael Benitez for his efforts to spell out what many football supporters have been saying about Taggart/ManUre for years. I’m no supporter of Liverpool but I admire Benitez for being brave enough to do this.

 

Benitez claims that Taggart is "the only manager who will not be punished" for outspoken attacks on referees. He has now got to a point where he can criticise the game's institutions with impunity.

 

"We had a meeting in Manchester with managers and the Football Association about the Respect campaign. And I was very clear, forget the campaign because Mr Ferguson was killing the referees, killing Mr (referee Martin) Atkinson, killing Mr (referees’ chief Keith) Hackett. How can you talk about the Respect campaign and yet criticise the referee every single week?"

 

"I want to talk about facts," he said. "I want to be clear, I do not want to play mind games too early, although they seem to want to start.

 

"During the Respect campaign - and this is a fact - Mr Ferguson was charged by the FA for improper conduct after comments made about Martin Atkinson and Keith Hackett.

"He was not punished. He is the only manager in the league that cannot be punished for these things.

 

"We know what happens every time we go to Old Trafford and the United staff. They are always going man to man with the referees, especially at half-time when they walk close to the referees and they are talking and talking.

 

"All managers need to know is that only Mr Ferguson can talk about the fixtures, can talk about referees and nothing happens. We need to know that I am talking about facts, not my impression. There are things that everyone can see every single week. To complain and to always have an advantage is not fair."

 

Benitez also poured scorn on Ferguson's recent suggestion that the fixture list is pitted against United. He said: "Then he was talking about the fixtures. Two years ago, we were playing a lot of early kick-offs away on Saturdays when United were playing on Sundays. And we didn't say anything. Now, he is complaining about everything, that everybody is against United. But the second half of the season will see them playing at home against all the teams at the top of the table. It is a fantastic advantage."

 

The smug pundits all come out and say if Benitez is going to say these things, then his team needs to put in a performance to back him up, which they didn’t at Stoke. What nonsense! If Benitez had said my team is better that ManUre and is going to win the title, then the pundits would have been correct.

 

ManUre are the best team and will win the title once again. IF, on the other hand, Liverpool win at Old Trafford, the title is theirs to be lost by inconsistent performances. But at least when going to Old Trafford Benitez will be quick to remind the media of what visiting teams are up against when it comes to administering the rules consistently.

 

Former Greedy League ref Graham Poll agrees with Benitez's suggestion that Taggart receives preferential treatment from FA disciplinary chiefs. He said Benitez has "articulated what referees have been thinking for years - that Sir Alex Ferguson can say what he wants about them and the FA will allow him to get away with it. The authorities could point to Ferguson's two-match ban imposed earlier this season as proof that he is not out of reach of their disciplinary department, but that was for marching onto the field after the 4-3 win over Hull and for comments made directly to the referee, Mike Dean, who in reporting the misconduct forced the FA's hand."

 

Benitez has continued his public attack on ManUre, Taggart and the relationship with the Football Association by questioning the role of ManUre’s Chief Executive David Gill, who is also a member of the FA’s board and on several committees inside the organisation.

 

Benitez added “They were saying we are a threat. Now they know we are, they are playing mind games. But I don’t think it’s a mind game when you have control over everything; it’s a mind game when you have the same level as the other people, then you can show you are cleverer than the others. But when you have control of everything and your chief executive is powerful in the FA and things like this, then that is not mind games. Is there a conflict of interest with David Gill at the FA? That is another fact. It is a fact that one person has a lot of power and control, and is on a lot of committees in the FA. To me that is very strange.”

 

I say keep ‘em coming Rafa. It probably won’t change anything, but why keep quiet about the lack of consistency in the treatment of managers and clubs? It needs to be said by someone who will be noticed by the media.

 

P.S. Before scotty_doesn't_know (or anyone else) asks, no I'm not a jealous person!

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:lol:

 

Whatever... the only FACT involved in this processs is that benitez is an idiot for letting Fergie get to him.... and meaning the title is even further away from the pitiful scousers...

 

Fergie is laughing is way to the top of the Premier league... with all the referees merrily dancing behind him...

 

:)

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:lol:

 

Whatever... the only FACT involved in this processs is that benitez is an idiot for letting Fergie get to him.... and meaning the title is even further away from the pitiful scousers...

 

You are saying what the pundits say, which I have already described as "nonsense"!

 

Fergie is laughing is way to the top of the Premier league... with all the referees merrily dancing behind him...

:)

 

That is the whole point behind Benitez's accusations.

 

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You are saying what the pundits say, which I have already described as "nonsense"!

 

 

 

That is the whole point behind Benitez's accusations.

 

I dont care - its funny!

 

The only manager who could ever withstand Fergie was Mourinho, cant wait for Man U Vs Inter.... and of course for when Mourinho takes his rightful place as Man U manger when Fergie retires....

 

The whole point behind this is the genius that is Alex Ferguson. The fact that he can get away with what he does is brilliant management, and a mark of how unrivalled Man U and he is in the Premiership...

 

... again, Fergie is laughing all the way to the title...

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The fact that he can get away with what he does is brilliant management

 

"Brilliant management" is sometimes not enough, but if you are also a law unto yourself, you are odds on to win things.

 

I appreciate that it's hilarious to ManUre fans, but I also wonder why they find it hard to understand why others dislike them so much.

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Well if its funny then I suppose its all ok...

 

 

There is a thread on the main site about what is ruining football.... I give you number 86: Piss poor refs

 

At number 1: piss poor supporters who allow football to be ruined in the first place....

 

Well done to Rafa and well done to everyone showing there support for him. Just hope Rafa realises that Liverpool are one of the teams that does actually get biased treatment.

 

Shame on everyone else for allowing such things to go on and trying to brush it off.

Edited by oafc0000
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Well if its funny then I suppose its all ok...

 

 

There is a thread on the main site about what is ruining football.... I give you number 86: Piss poor refs

 

At number 1: piss poor supporters who allow football to be ruined in the first place....

 

Well done to Rafa and well done to everyone showing there support for him. Just hope Rafa realises that Liverpool are one of the teams that does actually get biased treatment.

 

Shame on everyone else for allowing such things to go on and trying to brush it off.

 

I think you should retract that post.......I agree with it.

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Why when Ferguson has a rant is it "mind games".

 

Anyone else and it's all "they've lost it, he's done a Keegan".

 

Yeah because no one else can speak can they.

 

As for "brilliant management" I'd say having a legal team that the FA fear is brilliant management. Brilliant if you're intent on having nothing ever put against you.

 

Is that really how it should work? The governing body of English football are scared of one of their members and what they could do. As such they give them pretty much free reign to do as they please.

 

As for that silly old red nosed ****. Well we won't go into that :grin:

Edited by RoytonBlueLad
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Absolutely true, I've seen whisky nose lose it many times and they call it mind games.

 

It is. If the media weren't so far up his arse and afraid of being banned from press meetings, we'd be a lot better off.

 

You look abroad and the press just throw it out. If they're banned, the manager doesn't get his message across via the press. It's as simple as that. If they ban the reporter then their match is no longer covered in that newspaper until the ban ends.

 

Over here it's all about friends in the media, lunches with journalists and keeping everybody sweet.

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All the talk of mind games goes back to Keegan, and Ferguson really did put one over on him, he knew 100% what he was doing when he was nodding at the camera and I bet he soiled himself when he was watching the resulting breakdown. He’s been trading on that for a long time though.

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"We had a meeting in Manchester with managers and the Football Association about the Respect campaign. And I was very clear, forget the campaign because Mr Ferguson was killing the referees, killing Mr (referee Martin) Atkinson, killing Mr (referees’ chief Keith) Hackett. How can you talk about the Respect campaign and yet criticise the referee every single week?"

 

"During the Respect campaign - and this is a fact - Mr Ferguson was charged by the FA for improper conduct after comments made about Martin Atkinson and Keith Hackett.

"He was not punished. He is the only manager in the league that cannot be punished for these things.

 

"All managers need to know is that only Mr Ferguson can talk about the fixtures, can talk about referees and nothing happens. We need to know that I am talking about facts, not my impression. There are things that everyone can see every single week. To complain and to always have an advantage is not fair."

 

A correspondent to the Lancashire Telegraph pointed out:

The United manager isn't Mr Ferguson any more since being given a knighthood. The correct form of address is 'Sir Alex'.

 

That's why Benitez called him Mr. Ferguson, numpty!

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  • 2 months later...

As stated at the start of this thread Benitez alleged that Taggart was allowed to operate above the law by the Premier League and the Football Association. He also accused Taggart of intimidating match officials and damaging the FA's Respect campaign.

 

Week after week as Liverpool faltered the media kept referring to Benitez’s outspokenness against Taggart and ManUre, saying it had backfired and cost Liverpool the Title, which I’ve already explained was complete nonsense, as Benitez’s allegations were nothing to do with the merits of the two teams.

 

Taggart said he could not comprehend why Benítez was such "an angry man" and "talking with venom" and he insisted that, if it was intended as psychological warfare, it had failed. When asked what he thought of the "facts" that Benítez had listed as grievances, Taggart said "Weird. I really don't know what he was talking about. He'd obviously worked himself up into something, because he was reading it out."

 

Benítez’s name was conspicuous by his absence when Taggart was asked to name the best other managers in the Premier League: "You'd have to say Arsène Wenger, David Moyes and Martin O'Neill."

 

Rio Ferdinand accused Benítez of "falling into the trap" but Benitez pointed out once again "I was just talking about the facts. I don't expect a bad situation. We will shake hands. There is still respect between us. I was not giving an opinion. These were facts and everyone can judge whether they are true or not."

 

On the eve of the ManUre v Liverpool game at Old Trafford, Taggart also made fun of Benitez by saying "I would need to read more of Freud before I could understand what he [benitez] was talking about".Taggart mischievously noted Benítez never celebrated his team scoring a goal. "My instinct is to celebrate because I'm a football man and that is what football supporters do.“

 

“Rafa’s cracking up” had become the slogan and at Old Trafford on 14th March the camera focussed on two fans holding a banner with that slogan, as the ManUre fans subjected Benítez to chants of "cracking up".

 

After ManUre’s 4-1 defeat Taggart’s spokesman said that they had no complaints about anything, which was difficult to argue against. HoweverTaggart argued that the better team had lost the match. "We have lost a game. We need to respond and that is what we will do. It is a hard one to take because I felt we were the better team," he said. This prompted the braver members of the media to question whether it was Taggart who was cracking up rather than Benitez.

 

Then last Saturday at Craven Cottage it all went pear-shaped. Scholesy grabbed with two hands the opportunity to watch Joe Royle’s boys in the next three games

 

Manchester-Uniteds-Paul-S-001.jpg

 

and Rooney demonstrated once again why he is a liability when it comes to England’s efforts to win something. Taggart’s spokesman on the BBC blamed the defeat on the officials’ lack of control.

 

In addition to the BBC, since 2002 Taggart has boycotted the Mirror, Daily Express, Sunday Express, Daily Star, Daily Mail, Manchester Evening News, the Press Association, Five Live, Century FM ("F**king idiots, you all are"), plus a whole press conference in May 2002: "On you go. I'm no' f**king talking to you. Verón's a great f**king player. Youse are all f**king idiots." Also in November 2002, Taggart tried to boycott his own channel, MUTV, one month before fronting a UEFA conference on how managers should handle the press.

 

Meanwhile, I understand that Taggart has also boycotted Sky when it comes to giving interviews. Presumably ManUre’s television money will be reduced proportionately for breach of Sky’s contractual conditions with the Greedy League.

 

The Guardian is advocating that, in a manner similar to the days when the IRA gave interviews to the media, which the BBC broadcast by using an actor speaking the words, Martin Sheen should play the part of Taggart to deliver the speeches given to those remaining members of the media which have not crossed Taggart.

 

So there’s still all to play for. Despite losing two Greedy League games in a row for the first time in 47 months, the best team in the world is still in the driving seat and is still on schedule for winning the quintuplet. Taggart claims that this is his best ever squad, so he will not be worried.

 

There are strong echoes of March 1994, when a previously untouchable ManUre suddenly fell apart, with four players sent off in five games.. They still won the double, but it was uncomfortably tight. Had Mark Hughes not scored that goal in the last minute of extra-time in the FA Cup semi-final, it is feasible that ManUre would have won nothing.

 

The drama is not a crisis, but I think just a little bit of arrogance and smugness has evaporated over the last eight days. I think minds will be concentrated on the job in hand rather than undermining those perceived as a threat.

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For Benitez to pull that piece of paper out in that press conference and pre-arrange the question which brought it all out with the reporter from the Liverpool Echosuggests it was a rant, pre-meditated or not, it made him look quite a tit.

 

As for the impact on the 2 teams, thats hard to qualify, as that press conference alone may not have damaged Liverpool but a change in a managers general demeanour can have serious repercussions.

 

It hasnt cost them the league, only the team that holds its nerve for the last 9 games can say they didnt "crack up", united will still probably win it. As for Ferguson not mentioning Benitez in the best other managers - in context, he isnt in the same league as Moyes or O'neill. End of.

 

Rooney on saturday - disgraceful, to allow the degree of hacking that went on and then book him for throwing the ball back to where the free kick was being taken from, ah well, at least Phil Dowd will be able to dine out on that with the a.b.u brigade for a long while. Any other player from any other team (say, for example, the press' darling "Stevie Me") there is no way on the face of this earth it would have resulted in a yellow card.

 

Just one question though Diego, i know this is a "general football" room, but why the obsession and so much hatred for a manager and a team that have absolutely nothing to do with Oldham? it goes for a few others on here, after the Liverpool-United game last week, there were posts on here by people saying it was ok for Oldham to lose like that as United getting stuffed made it bearable. :shock: Obsessed.

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For Benitez to pull that piece of paper out in that press conference and pre-arrange the question which brought it all out with the reporter from the Liverpool Echosuggests it was a rant, pre-meditated or not, it made him look quite a tit.

 

As for the impact on the 2 teams, thats hard to qualify, as that press conference alone may not have damaged Liverpool but a change in a managers general demeanour can have serious repercussions.

 

It hasnt cost them the league, only the team that holds its nerve for the last 9 games can say they didnt "crack up", united will still probably win it. As for Ferguson not mentioning Benitez in the best other managers - in context, he isnt in the same league as Moyes or O'neill. End of.

 

Rooney on saturday - disgraceful, to allow the degree of hacking that went on and then book him for throwing the ball back to where the free kick was being taken from, ah well, at least Phil Dowd will be able to dine out on that with the a.b.u brigade for a long while. Any other player from any other team (say, for example, the press' darling "Stevie Me") there is no way on the face of this earth it would have resulted in a yellow card.

 

Just one question though Diego, i know this is a "general football" room, but why the obsession and so much hatred for a manager and a team that have absolutely nothing to do with Oldham? it goes for a few others on here, after the Liverpool-United game last week, there were posts on here by people saying it was ok for Oldham to lose like that as United getting stuffed made it bearable. :shock: Obsessed.

 

When speaking facts, it is best to have your information written down for accuracy, hence Rafa's piece of paper.

 

Rafa not in the same league as Moyes or O'Neill - end of - I assume that would be the Champions League.

 

Rooney "throwing the ball back to where the free-kick was being taken from" - that's not what I saw!

 

For you to draw the conclusion that I have "the obsession and so much hatred for a manager and a team that have absolutely nothing to do with Oldham", I assume that you have not based that statement on reading this thread alone. In that case you must have read my many other posts on Taggart and ManUre. If so you will have read my lengthy explanations of the reasons for my dislike (not hated) of Taggart and I don't intend repeating them again. If not then I'll leave it for you to use the search facility to find my previous posts, from which you will deduce that it is neither hatred nor an obsession.

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When speaking facts, it is best to have your information written down for accuracy, hence Rafa's piece of paper.

 

Rafa not in the same league as Moyes or O'Neill - end of - I assume that would be the Champions League.

 

Rooney "throwing the ball back to where the free-kick was being taken from" - that's not what I saw!

 

For you to draw the conclusion that I have "the obsession and so much hatred for a manager and a team that have absolutely nothing to do with Oldham", I assume that you have not based that statement on reading this thread alone. In that case you must have read my many other posts on Taggart and ManUre. If so you will have read my lengthy explanations of the reasons for my dislike (not hated) of Taggart and I don't intend repeating them again. If not then I'll leave it for you to use the search facility to find my previous posts, from which you will deduce that it is neither hatred nor an obsession.

 

it was all prompted, it suggested strongly that benitex had been sitting on it for a while, and Liverpools performances suffered in the weeks that followed, therefore it was a case of mind games and in that instance, Benitez bit, hook line and sinker.

 

Regards the Champions League - correct, he is in the Champions League and they are not - however I did say in context, the context being expectation, money spent etc etc. in this context, the best manager in the premier league is arguably Moyes, having done it over several seasons. The best team doesnt always win the European Cup, however the best team always wins the league, and Ill stand or fall by that come May.

 

Rooney threw the ball back to where the free kick was being taken, the ref was a good 5 or 6 yards from this spot. 2 minutes prior to this, just before the 2nd fulham goal, an offside was given against a Fulham forward who then proceeded to hack the ball to the back of the stand. Guess phil dowd must have temporarily lost his card.

 

Maybe it isnt hatred, it does often seem to border on obsession, not just you, but many other Oldham fans on here and otherwise. I havent got the time or energy to sift through all your posts, but I'll take your word for it, although I dont seem to remember too many other occasions where you have been gushing in your praise for Ferguson or United, but ill be happy to be proved wrong.

 

 

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it was all prompted, it suggested strongly that benitex had been sitting on it for a while, and Liverpools performances suffered in the weeks that followed, therefore it was a case of mind games and in that instance, Benitez bit, hook line and sinker.

 

Regards the Champions League - correct, he is in the Champions League and they are not - however I did say in context, the context being expectation, money spent etc etc. in this context, the best manager in the premier league is arguably Moyes, having done it over several seasons. The best team doesnt always win the European Cup, however the best team always wins the league, and Ill stand or fall by that come May.

 

Rooney threw the ball back to where the free kick was being taken, the ref was a good 5 or 6 yards from this spot. 2 minutes prior to this, just before the 2nd fulham goal, an offside was given against a Fulham forward who then proceeded to hack the ball to the back of the stand. Guess phil dowd must have temporarily lost his card.

 

Maybe it isnt hatred, it does often seem to border on obsession, not just you, but many other Oldham fans on here and otherwise. I havent got the time or energy to sift through all your posts, but I'll take your word for it, although I dont seem to remember too many other occasions where you have been gushing in your praise for Ferguson or United, but ill be happy to be proved wrong.

 

Rooney threw the ball a long way past where the free-kick should have been taken, and your repetition of what Taggart said on the subject makes you both appear to be blind.

 

I have stated repeatedly what is obvious, namely that ManUre are the best team and play the best football. In a nutshell, my dislike arises from the refusal of the manager to be magnanimous in defeat, and there are many examples of this over the years, despite the fact that defeats come very infrequently. When one has proved oneself to be the best, it is a pity to lose respect by displaying what appears to be arrogance and contempt for those not as good as oneself.

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Jataal07, where do you live? im guessin not from oldham? this isnt a personal dig, as most oldham fans that i know hate united, as due to our proximity, our town is full of united fans (and city for that matter). My dad for example is constantly taking flak from workmates that support united, constantly smug about their results and taking the piss out of oldham when we lose or just because of were we are in the football league. He doesnt mind it though as thats part of being a football fan and he loves to give it back when they lose, its part an parcel of the banter. Same goes for my uncle who's a big red, he gives it, he takes it. There is other situations too where it occurs. Just because were not in the same league doesnt mean we cant share a rivalry, albeit a very one-sided one as i doubt most united fans bar the ones in oldham care too much about us.

 

On top of all this i suppose you can add in the semi final defeats at the hands of united which still hurt, and also united for being united. Anyone see the game last saturday? disgraceful from the united players, behaviour wise. Ronaldo shouldnt have been on the pitch after that tackle when he jumped in on danny murphy, thats usually a red card but due to it being united it was never a sending off as the ref would be too scared of fergie after!!

 

These are the reasons i can muster which i hope shed some light on it, maybe you also consider these possible reasons but dont consider them big enough as worthy to hate them, then fair play i suppose each to their own!! i just hope you might not understand a bit more why theres alot that dont particularly like united!!!

 

:ranting: rant over :grin:

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Jataal07, where do you live? im guessin not from oldham? this isnt a personal dig, as most oldham fans that i know hate united, as due to our proximity, our town is full of united fans (and city for that matter). My dad for example is constantly taking flak from workmates that support united, constantly smug about their results and taking the piss out of oldham when we lose or just because of were we are in the football league. He doesnt mind it though as thats part of being a football fan and he loves to give it back when they lose, its part an parcel of the banter. Same goes for my uncle who's a big red, he gives it, he takes it. There is other situations too where it occurs. Just because were not in the same league doesnt mean we cant share a rivalry, albeit a very one-sided one as i doubt most united fans bar the ones in oldham care too much about us.

 

On top of all this i suppose you can add in the semi final defeats at the hands of united which still hurt, and also united for being united. Anyone see the game last saturday? disgraceful from the united players, behaviour wise. Ronaldo shouldnt have been on the pitch after that tackle when he jumped in on danny murphy, thats usually a red card but due to it being united it was never a sending off as the ref would be too scared of fergie after!!

 

These are the reasons i can muster which i hope shed some light on it, maybe you also consider these possible reasons but dont consider them big enough as worthy to hate them, then fair play i suppose each to their own!! i just hope you might not understand a bit more why theres alot that dont particularly like united!!!

 

:ranting: rant over :grin:

 

i live in royton, originally from Manchester but have lived there for most of my life (bar about the first 4 years).

i dont see any rivalry with Oldham. as the team closest to where i live, i want to see them do well. when united arent playing (which is quite often at 3pm saturday infortunately) i go and watch Oldham as much as possible. This isnt as often as i would like but Im a season ticket holder at Old Trafford so im there every home game and aways when i can get a ticket/family circumstances (im a single parent) allow.

 

i hate the fact that the white hart or the grey mare are full of clueless united fans as much as you do. i hate the fact that these out of towners "support" United, when they dont ultimately have the first clue what "supporting" is about (ie not getting on the backs of players when they put the first pass out of play), but i equally hate being in these places watching united and having Oldham fans cheering the other team. in the white hart last season at one point it was amazing, there were the Derby County, then i think Tottenham, supporters branches in there in successive weeks. I dont know about anyone else but when Im watching football that doesnt involve United, i dont care who wins.

 

I give stick to my oldham supporting mates, but would never take the piss out of the league position/financial plight/whatever. your right about sharing a rivalry but surely it should be more of a jokey one, as you rightly say, apart from the reds in oldham not too many united fans register oldham. thats not having a dig, thats how it is. I also take stick from lads who support Oldham, but it does seem to verge more on the nasty side. No football is worth getting that wound up about is it really?

 

As for saturday, yes ronaldos "tackle" on murphy (he didnt touch him to be fair but the intent was there) could have been a red card but having watched the whole match, if he had sent ronaldo off for that, Fulham would have easily ended the game with the same number of players. I will still maintain that any other player throws the ball back like Rooney did, he will get away with it, especially if he has already been booked, but hey, i suppose thats because were on different sides of the fence!

 

I can understand why some fans "hate" United, and there out of town fans (i see the silver lining that these out of towners when they do go spend a shed load in the tat shop and help keep my ticket price semi reasonable :) ), but both a sense of perspective and a bit of reality is needed sometimes. Surely if Fergie had the refs in his pocket so much, Rooney wouldnt have been sent off, Vidic wouldnt have been sent off last week, we would have been awarded at least some of the countless pens we have been denied this season (as im sure every side has), but its not as bad as a lot of ABU's make out, just as were not as squeaky clean, im sure, as a lot of united fans make out either, but then again, does every team play within the rules for 90 minutes every week?

 

A lot of these things are stock responses. When Fergie said we were the better side, although we deserved to get beat, we played the better football. Liverpool dealt in long balls (sorry, long passes when Stevie G tm executes his 3 out of 10 that stay in play), we didnt deal with it, end of. Everyone comes straight out with the sore loser crap. Well to an extent, yeah, we are sore losers, may go someway to explain the success we have had, but the truth, as usual, lies somewhere in the middle.

 

 

 

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Any other player from any other team (say, for example, the press' darling "Stevie Me")

 

Liverpool dealt in long balls (sorry, long passes when Stevie G tm executes his 3 out of 10 that stay in play

 

 

 

You ask Diego why he has a hatred (or dislike as he says) of a manager and team who have nothing to do with him. Yet the above quotes made by yourself would indicate something similar from you about a player who has nothing to do with Man U. I guess that's OK though in the little land of paranoia that Man U fans seem to inhabit.

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Any other player from any other team (say, for example, the press' darling "Stevie Me")

Liverpool dealt in long balls (sorry, long passes when Stevie G tm executes his 3 out of 10 that stay in play

You ask Diego why he has a hatred (or dislike as he says) of a manager and team who have nothing to do with him. Yet the above quotes made by yourself would indicate something similar from you about a player who has nothing to do with Man U. I guess that's OK though in the little land of paranoia that Man U fans seem to inhabit.

 

I used him merely as the most convenient example, could say the same about Lampard and "JT" (how cringeworthy) at Chelsea, Stevie "Superman" Ireland at city, could go on but wont.

 

I would have hoped that the rest of my post indicated that genuine, reasonable match going United fans (of which, despite popular belief, there are a few thousand left, thank god) dont occupy "a little land of paranoia", I acknowledge good football and good players when I see them. Didnt see the press mention the United fans who stayed on at the end the other week and applauded Torres off the pitch at the end of the match. He was, and is genuine top drawer world class (thanks Martin Ferguson for not recomending him!) and I will always recognise when we are beaten by quality.

 

In one sense Gerrard has nothing to do with us, but in another he is after all captain of our fiercest rivals who we are currently battling it out for that all important 18th title. i know im not obsessed with him or his club, i just want to see ourselves finish above them each and every season, same as i do the other 18 clubs.

 

i actually cringe when we are playing, say, Wigan or somebody similar, and all some reds sing about is bleeding Gerrard, Murderers and city, we have enough cracking songs for our own club and players without resorting to that.

 

Now as a united fan, im hoping some of what ive said makes some oldham fans realise were not all japanese tourists/arrogant gloryhunters or "in our own little land of paranoia" but i appreciate that some will read it and still think "red scum".

 

ah well, c'est la vie.

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i live in royton, originally from Manchester but have lived there for most of my life (bar about the first 4 years).

i dont see any rivalry with Oldham. as the team closest to where i live, i want to see them do well. when united arent playing (which is quite often at 3pm saturday infortunately) i go and watch Oldham as much as possible. This isnt as often as i would like but Im a season ticket holder at Old Trafford so im there every home game and aways when i can get a ticket/family circumstances (im a single parent) allow.

 

i hate the fact that the white hart or the grey mare are full of clueless united fans as much as you do. i hate the fact that these out of towners "support" United, when they dont ultimately have the first clue what "supporting" is about (ie not getting on the backs of players when they put the first pass out of play), but i equally hate being in these places watching united and having Oldham fans cheering the other team. in the white hart last season at one point it was amazing, there were the Derby County, then i think Tottenham, supporters branches in there in successive weeks. I dont know about anyone else but when Im watching football that doesnt involve United, i dont care who wins.

 

I give stick to my oldham supporting mates, but would never take the piss out of the league position/financial plight/whatever. your right about sharing a rivalry but surely it should be more of a jokey one, as you rightly say, apart from the reds in oldham not too many united fans register oldham. thats not having a dig, thats how it is. I also take stick from lads who support Oldham, but it does seem to verge more on the nasty side. No football is worth getting that wound up about is it really?

 

As for saturday, yes ronaldos "tackle" on murphy (he didnt touch him to be fair but the intent was there) could have been a red card but having watched the whole match, if he had sent ronaldo off for that, Fulham would have easily ended the game with the same number of players. I will still maintain that any other player throws the ball back like Rooney did, he will get away with it, especially if he has already been booked, but hey, i suppose thats because were on different sides of the fence!

 

I can understand why some fans "hate" United, and there out of town fans (i see the silver lining that these out of towners when they do go spend a shed load in the tat shop and help keep my ticket price semi reasonable :) ), but both a sense of perspective and a bit of reality is needed sometimes. Surely if Fergie had the refs in his pocket so much, Rooney wouldnt have been sent off, Vidic wouldnt have been sent off last week, we would have been awarded at least some of the countless pens we have been denied this season (as im sure every side has), but its not as bad as a lot of ABU's make out, just as were not as squeaky clean, im sure, as a lot of united fans make out either, but then again, does every team play within the rules for 90 minutes every week?

 

A lot of these things are stock responses. When Fergie said we were the better side, although we deserved to get beat, we played the better football. Liverpool dealt in long balls (sorry, long passes when Stevie G tm executes his 3 out of 10 that stay in play), we didnt deal with it, end of. Everyone comes straight out with the sore loser crap. Well to an extent, yeah, we are sore losers, may go someway to explain the success we have had, but the truth, as usual, lies somewhere in the middle.

 

Thats fine, i dont really mind the decent united fans (especially the ones who go) i suppose that due to the nature of who you are, theres alot more clueless supporters out there who follow united, there the ones who piss me off. I should imagine that those fans that are cheering on the other team they must know some united fans in there or whatever, and its there way of giving some stick back!! and lets face it we dont get much to take the mick out of you with :wink: I suppose thats where some of my hatred comes from for united really, among other things (your constant success, b***ards :grin:) !!

 

As for the game saturday, well i cant say i watched the whole game and regardless of whether who should have had who sent off, i felt ronaldo could of conducted himself better, thought it was poor sportsmanship from him especially when he didnt shake murphy's hand after the challenge. Also he could have been done for dissent a couple of times over from what i saw on motd. Dont get me wrong the fulham players looked to be getting away with a couple of things but nothing to bad.

 

As for Rooney, i dont believe any player will have got away with what he did, its all been highlighted more because he was sent off for it! we wouldnt be talking about it now if he'd have got a booking for it, which is exactly what it was, and it was his first yellow, there was no need imo to throw the ball as such. I suppose you could argue the ref got fed up with united players constantly in his face (ronaldo certainly looked it) and any chance of him not giving him the sending off wasn't likely.

 

Like you say though the answer quite possibly lies somewhere in the middle as i dont like united and your a united season ticket holder!!!

 

P.S. you dirty red!!! :grin:

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