'The wider picture'

[peteharrop]

Just reading through the posts tonight someone mentioned the wider picture.

 

Tonight, for me more worrying than the second half performance, even more worrying than the our failure to string five passes together was Sheridan's inability to even attempt to change a game from 2 nil down.

 

If we're lucky enough to get there - picture the scene. Play off final we're two nil down at Wembly what does Sheridan do? Delve into his three years experience he has gained as a manager and think back to the games like tonight he has 'tried' to change?

 

The alarming thing for me is that games like tonight are surely the time to throw everything at a team. See what works and what doesn't. Take the last twenty minutes. If the options aren't on the bench why not throw Gregan up front and give it a good go. What did we really have to lose? Do the 3700 that made it tonight not deserve reverting to a 3-3-4 formation and see if the opposition can cope with it? Instead as per normal we get like for like changes and let what was a massive game just drift away.

 

I'm seriously disillusioned and the only positive I can take from tonight is that sky aren't turning up till next week.

 

Oh well remember for the interviews lads "Shez has got one of the lowest budgets in the league"!! Utter crap!

 

[Corporal_Jones]

The wider picture for this club involves only uncertainty, I fear.

 

Failure to go up once again looking likely; falling crowds despite a high league position and an ongoing major recession bound to affect an already poorer than the national average population, not to mention putting on indefinite hold the project that represents the only chance of this club becoming financially independent; veiled promises (if understandable ones) of cutting the playing budget if we don't go up, as well as hints that the current level of subsidies from the owners' pockets can't continue indefinitely; and one of our nearest neighbours able to offer the chance to watch world class players for little more than you can watch our own journeymen, loanees and kids.

 

All of it, I'm sad to say, sees us drifting towards that place with smelly water, and nobody knows where that wooden thing has gone.

[Stitch_KTF]

The wider picture for this club involves only uncertainty, I fear.

 

Failure to go up once again looking likely; falling crowds despite a high league position and an ongoing major recession bound to affect an already poorer than the national average population, not to mention putting on indefinite hold the project that represents the only chance of this club becoming financially independent; veiled promises (if understandable ones) of cutting the playing budget if we don't go up, as well as hints that the current level of subsidies from the owners' pockets can't continue indefinitely; and one of our nearest neighbours able to offer the chance to watch world class players for little more than you can watch our own journeymen, loanees and kids.

 

All of it, I'm sad to say, sees us drifting towards that place with smelly water, and nobody knows where that wooden thing has gone.

 

Have you watched todays interiew with Simon Blitz?

[Corporal_Jones]

Have you watched todays interiew with Simon Blitz?

 

 

 

No, but I've seen the summary on here.

 

Didn't notice anything that contradicts what I'm saying.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Corporal_Jones

[Stitch_KTF]

No, but I've seen the summary on here.

 

Didn't notice anything that contradicts what I'm saying.

 

He talks about the excellent financial security TTA have built over the last five years. He believes the club will get through the recession better than most and thus be in a position to push on as soon as it ends.

 

Fingers crossed.

[Corporal_Jones]

He talks about the excellent financial security TTA have built over the last five years. He believes the club will get through the recession better than most and thus be in a position to push on as soon as it ends.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

 

 

'Getting thorough the recession' means nothing in itself.

 

As far as I can see, the interview more or less confirms that budgets will be cut and that there is no sign of the stadium project getting off the ground. When you consider the fact that an enormous and politically varied body of opinion seem to think that this is no ordinary recession, this would seem to hamper the club's recent plans for promotion and financial self-sufficiency somewhat. We don't know how long this uncertainty will last, and if the wider Oldham public continues to stay away and more of the diehards drift away due to lack of progress on the pitch, what then?

 

I accept that we may be in a better financial position than many clubs at this level, and that other clubs will be in the same boat, but I suspect that further financial impoverishment of the lower leagues will see the gulf between us and the second tier, where there is a far bigger concentration of money, widen drastically, especially when you consider that there is no will to reform the financial structure of the game.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Corporal_Jones

[futchers briefs]

'Getting thorough the recession' means nothing in itself.

 

As far as I can see, the interview more or less confirms that budgets will be cut and that there is no sign of the stadium project getting off the ground. When you consider the fact that an enormous and politically varied body of opinion seem to think that this is no ordinary recession, this would seem to hamper the club's recent plans for promotion and financial self-sufficiency somewhat. We don't know how long this uncertainty will last, and if the wider Oldham public continues to stay away and more of the diehards drift away due to lack of progress on the pitch, what then?

 

I accept that we may be in a better financial position than many clubs at this level, and that other clubs will be in the same boat, but I suspect that further financial impoverishment of the lower leagues will see the gulf between us and the second tier, where there is a far bigger concentration of money, widen drastically, especially when you consider that there is no will to reform the financial structure of the game.

Does the 'better financial position', take into account the "massive" overhaul of players we would need if promoted, as this current crop are showing potential that the majority of them would not be good enough at a higher level, as they are struggling to consistently perform at this one?

[Lookers_Carl]

'Getting thorough the recession' means nothing in itself.

 

As far as I can see, the interview more or less confirms that budgets will be cut and that there is no sign of the stadium project getting off the ground. When you consider the fact that an enormous and politically varied body of opinion seem to think that this is no ordinary recession, this would seem to hamper the club's recent plans for promotion and financial self-sufficiency somewhat. We don't know how long this uncertainty will last, and if the wider Oldham public continues to stay away and more of the diehards drift away due to lack of progress on the pitch, what then?

 

I accept that we may be in a better financial position than many clubs at this level, and that other clubs will be in the same boat, but I suspect that further financial impoverishment of the lower leagues will see the gulf between us and the second tier, where there is a far bigger concentration of money, widen drastically, especially when you consider that there is no will to reform the financial structure of the game.

 

Dont think this will be us and am surprised it hasnt happened yet but I definately think we will see an established football league club liquidated within the next two years

 

And would also put money on some teams in the third tier of english football go part time

[Corporal_Jones]

Does the 'better financial position', take into account the "massive" overhaul of players we would need if promoted, as this current crop are showing potential that the majority of them would not be good enough at a higher level, as they are struggling to consistently perform at this one?

 

 

I suspect that it doesn't.

 

That's why I can't take any comfort from the fact that, if this euphemistically-titled recession turns out to be prolonged, most other third-tier clubs will be in the same boat. When you consider the gap in quality between this division and the next one up, how would a host of impoverished clubs be able to afford the necessary additional quality?

 

I can foresee a situation where this becomes a division that the likes of Leeds, Leicester, Forest, and possibly Charlton, Southampton, Watford etc yo-yo in and out of, with the rest making up the numbers.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Corporal_Jones

[opinions4u]

Does the 'better financial position', take into account the "massive" overhaul of players we would need if promoted, as this current crop are showing potential that the majority of them would not be good enough at a higher level, as they are struggling to consistently perform at this one?

I look through the squad and feel that a high percentage of them could do a job in the Championship (of the 11 starters last night, I'd say only Budtz, Whitaker and Windass might not have next season at a higher level in them - but based on the 90 minutes last night, none of them showed the commitment needed to do it at a higher level).

 

I look through the squad and feel that we should be comfortably in the top two in this division.

 

I look through the squad and see depth, ability and under achievement.

 

I look to the bench and see a manager who doesn't get the best out of the players at his disposal.

 

 

[Stitch_KTF]

'Getting thorough the recession' means nothing in itself.

 

As far as I can see, the interview more or less confirms that budgets will be cut and that there is no sign of the stadium project getting off the ground. When you consider the fact that an enormous and politically varied body of opinion seem to think that this is no ordinary recession, this would seem to hamper the club's recent plans for promotion and financial self-sufficiency somewhat. We don't know how long this uncertainty will last, and if the wider Oldham public continues to stay away and more of the diehards drift away due to lack of progress on the pitch, what then?

 

I accept that we may be in a better financial position than many clubs at this level, and that other clubs will be in the same boat, but I suspect that further financial impoverishment of the lower leagues will see the gulf between us and the second tier, where there is a far bigger concentration of money, widen drastically, especially when you consider that there is no will to reform the financial structure of the game.

 

But getting through the recession debt free does.

 

In the mean time budgets will be cut, player wages will be cut, across the board. So everyone is back where they were. There will still be the same amount of footballers looking for contracts, and the same amount of clubs looking to give them. To make myself clear the money involved will decrease yes, but that doesn't mean the standard of player decreases. We're lucky a lot of contracts will be up, whatever division we're in.

[Corporal_Jones]

But getting through the recession debt free does.

 

In the mean time budgets will be cut, player wages will be cut, across the board. So everyone is back where they were. There will still be the same amount of footballers looking for contracts, and the same amount of clubs looking to give them. To make myself clear the money involved will decrease yes, but that doesn't mean the standard of player decreases. We're lucky a lot of contracts will be up, whatever division we're in.

 

 

 

The gulf between this level and the one above, where considerably more money is likely to remain, will grow, however, as the more able players migrate to second-tier clubs. Football at this level will grow more stagnant and few clubs will be capable of making the leap to and surviving at the higher level.

 

[dfOAFC]

'The wider picture'

 

did anyone else click this thread expecting a photo of Windass???

 

[j@cko]

Just reading through the posts tonight someone mentioned the wider picture.

 

Tonight, for me more worrying than the second half performance, even more worrying than the our failure to string five passes together was Sheridan's inability to even attempt to change a game from 2 nil down.

 

If we're lucky enough to get there - picture the scene. Play off final we're two nil down at Wembly what does Sheridan do? Delve into his three years experience he has gained as a manager and think back to the games like tonight he has 'tried' to change?

 

The alarming thing for me is that games like tonight are surely the time to throw everything at a team. See what works and what doesn't. Take the last twenty minutes. If the options aren't on the bench why not throw Gregan up front and give it a good go. What did we really have to lose? Do the 3700 that made it tonight not deserve reverting to a 3-3-4 formation and see if the opposition can cope with it? Instead as per normal we get like for like changes and let what was a massive game just drift away.

 

I'm seriously disillusioned and the only positive I can take from tonight is that sky aren't turning up till next week.

 

Oh well remember for the interviews lads "Shez has got one of the lowest budgets in the league"!! Utter crap!

 

 

Big Joe regulaly threw 3 up top, remember Warhurst and Marshall became Strikers/Defenders, Dowie did it with big Fitz, how many times did he save us....sometimes it dosnt work, but if you dont have a go you will never know, AND as a fan you never felt cheated

[quark]

I look through the squad and feel that a high percentage of them could do a job in the Championship (of the 11 starters last night, I'd say only Budtz, Whitaker and Windass might not have next season at a higher level in them - but based on the 90 minutes last night, none of them showed the commitment needed to do it at a higher level).

 

I look through the squad and feel that we should be comfortably in the top two in this division.

 

I look through the squad and see depth, ability and under achievement.

 

I look to the bench and see a manager who doesn't get the best out of the players at his disposal.

This is as sensible a post as I have seen on this board today. We have a strong squad and some skilful players, but the management simply does not seem to know how to utilise their strengths to create a consistent team. I am not one for changing managers easily but the time seems to be coming rapidly. With proper motivation and consistent team selection, the present players would give us a real prospect of promotion. We are only going to achieve that, I fear, with a different man in charge.

 

If promotion did happen, that would bring its own problems. Our attendances, by Championship standards, are pitiful (we are in the top five after all, which should be some incentive to come) so there would be an expectation of further investment from TTA. I agree the three players picked out above would not have a future at that level, but other areas of the team would need to be strengthened if we were to compete - we would need a creative midfielder for one thing, and although Gregan and Hazell work fine in League One, the lack of pace there would certainly catch us out in the Championship.

[Corporal_Jones]

Our attendances, by Championship standards, are pitiful (we are in the top five after all, which should be some incentive to come)

 

 

 

Rightly or wrongly, the wider Oldham public, in which you can include many lapsed former hardcore supporters, doesn't seem to believe that the club is serious about promotion, probably because of the outright disasters and false dawns of the last fifteen years. Performances and results like last night's only confirms their view. This is why smaller clubs than us, lower down our division, average better crowds now.

 

[Corporal_Jones]

Our attendances, by Championship standards, are pitiful (we are in the top five after all, which should be some incentive to come)

 

 

 

Rightly or wrongly, the wider Oldham public, in which you can include many lapsed former hardcore supporters, doesn't seem to believe that the club is serious about promotion, probably because of the outright disasters and false dawns of the last fifteen years. Performances and results like last night's only confirms their view. This is why smaller clubs than us, lower down our division, average better crowds now.

 

[eddyblue]

Having supported the Latics for nearly 50 years I am trying to come to terms with the fact that hope died last night. It may be an overreaction but I have reached the conclusion that promotion is highly unlikely.*.

I do so reluctantly, because I am still, just about, in the Shez in camp. Also no manager can be blamed for seasoned pros missing a penalty, and fairly easy chances but it is frustrating to watch as time and time again we struggle against sides that are individually inferior.

But there is something wrong. The team looks laboured, and in the second half last night, as embarrassingly inept as I have ever seen from a Latics side. I also can’t help but think that under Frizz, with this squad, the results would be much better.

Previous threads have posed the possibility of an older head being brought in to guide the still relatively inexperienced current management. Shez is a legend, and very honest and I still think could come good. Loan players speak highly of him e.g Jones, and enjoy their time at BP and there does not seem to be any difficulty in getting players in on loan.

So is it a man management thing namely there needs to be a bit more of a fear of bollocking factor introduced? There is a fine line between a foulmouthed manager who loses respect by being too aggressive (that bloke at Peterborough when they brought Ron Atkinson in for example), and being too pally with the players. If it were possible to do without undermining Shez, I wonder if it would be worth approaching Sir Jim or Sir Joe for assistance in the man management area, and even possibly tactics.

Some may think this a daft idea, but something has to be done because frankly, last night, it would have made more sense to stay home and watch United on the box and as I left the ground I really wondered about my Laticsness. I wish I could come up with an answer. Fact is though the Corp’s warnings seem increasingly correct and we have to halt this slow downward spiral. I know we are still in the top six, but somehow it doesn’t feel like that.

*of course i hope i am proved wrong – but can you imagine a performance like last night with Wolves as opponents

 

[Corporal_Jones]

*of course i hope i am proved wrong – but can you imagine a performance like last night with Wolves as opponents

 

 

 

I thought it was daft when some people suggested that the collapse of the 2006/7 promotion challenge, when we were doing everything required and doing it in style, was due to some players being intimidated by the idea of having to perform week-in, week-out a the higher level. Now I'm not so sure.

 

In some ways it's easier to be a professional footballer at this level than it is at the top. You get paid more than the national average (in many cases far, far more) and nobody expects all that much from you. Not even most of the fans.

 

[futchers briefs]

Having supported the Latics for nearly 50 years I am trying to come to terms with the fact that hope died last night. It may be an overreaction but I have reached the conclusion that promotion is highly unlikely.*.

I do so reluctantly, because I am still, just about, in the Shez in camp. Also no manager can be blamed for seasoned pros missing a penalty, and fairly easy chances but it is frustrating to watch as time and time again we struggle against sides that are individually inferior.

But there is something wrong. The team looks laboured, and in the second half last night, as embarrassingly inept as I have ever seen from a Latics side. I also can’t help but think that under Frizz, with this squad, the results would be much better.

Previous threads have posed the possibility of an older head being brought in to guide the still relatively inexperienced current management. Shez is a legend, and very honest and I still think could come good. Loan players speak highly of him e.g Jones, and enjoy their time at BP and there does not seem to be any difficulty in getting players in on loan.

So is it a man management thing namely there needs to be a bit more of a fear of bollocking factor introduced? There is a fine line between a foulmouthed manager who loses respect by being too aggressive (that bloke at Peterborough when they brought Ron Atkinson in for example), and being too pally with the players. If it were possible to do without undermining Shez, I wonder if it would be worth approaching Sir Jim or Sir Joe for assistance in the man management area, and even possibly tactics.

Some may think this a daft idea, but something has to be done because frankly, last night, it would have made more sense to stay home and watch United on the box and as I left the ground I really wondered about my Laticsness. I wish I could come up with an answer. Fact is though the Corp’s warnings seem increasingly correct and we have to halt this slow downward spiral. I know we are still in the top six, but somehow it doesn’t feel like that.

*of course i hope i am proved wrong – but can you imagine a performance like last night with Wolves as opponents

Applause given for a very good, sensible and balanced post - how unusual to find one!