RoytonBlueLad Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I was sent a link earlier today with some images from the day. Some of them are very, very graphic, one in particular. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/loc...Popup&ino=1 As I say, they're very graphic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I was sent a link earlier today with some images from the day. Some of them are very, very graphic, one in particular. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/loc...Popup&ino=1 As I say, they're very graphic. Not nice viewing...but important people see it, remember it, and never let it happen again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heath Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Liverpool Football Club will NEVER play a game of football on the 15th April. RIP to the 96 who died that day and the people who have tragically taken their own lives since that fateful day 20 years ago. I am off to the memorial today at Anfield, never a good day for a LFC supporter. RIP and Justice to the 96. Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Lots of people where at fault for what happened at Hillsborough: The Police (the vast majority of the blame has to rest here) The FA The Clubs The Fans - (I am talking about the general behaviour of Football fans at that time aka the reason for the fences in the first place) Thankfully for everyone the Taylor report put right many of these issues even if it might be time for a bit of a review in regards to it. Will never forget the day... Shock me to the core and had a lasting effect... RIP the 96 I'm curious about why you say the FA and the Clubs were at fault for what happened that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) I'm curious about why you say the FA and the Clubs were at fault for what happened that day. They have to share some of the blame for the state of the stadiums in the country. You only have to look at similar stadiums housing similar crowd sizes in America to see how far behind we was in sports stadium development. I heard some clubs state they where in compliance with safety regulations. Everyone knew these stadiums where not good enough, I was nine at the time and could tell how dangerous they where. Its not like we did not have incidents to learn from either. Bradford, Heysel, Ibrox as well as many more near misses... While the decision to open the main gate and not close the gate to the pen where the root causes... Something has simple CLEAR signs indicating the availability of other pens could of averted the disaster. Its also been well documented about the poor decision to allocate the Liverpool supporters to the West Stand. The decision to use Hillsborough for such an event is questionable as well. Everyone had lessons to learn from this disaster. Edited April 15, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 While the decision to open the main gate and not close the gate to the pen where the root causes... Something has simple CLEAR signs indicating the availability of other pens could of averted the disaster. Its also been well documented about the poor decision to allocate the Liverpool supporters to the West Stand. The decision to use Hillsborough for such an event is questionable as well. Everyone had lessons to learn from this disaster. The previous year’s FA Cup semi-final at Hillsborough was between Liverpool and Forest, with exactly the same stadium allocation to the two clubs. The match went off without any problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 We drew 2-2 at home to Sunderland that day. Remember the Match announcer of the time Chris Henthorne? Relaying the half-times and simply saying there had been a number of crush injuries at Hillsborough and nothing else really. It was only when I got home the true horror began to unfold. A day I will never forget and one unfortunately that had been an accident waiting to happen. When I think of the :censored:-holes I've been to over the years following Latics and how crowded some of those crumbling ends must have been when the big-biys rolled in makes it all the more surprising it hadn't happened time and time again. peopole penned in like animals and treated with contempt. West Brom, Middlesbrough and Notts County immediately spring to mind. Oh and the McGovern drama - harrowing! Watched it and it moved me to tears... Ah I was sure I was at BP that day and you just confirmed it for me. I remember the message being a bit more confused than that and me and my dad walking home after the match wondering what had gone on (there was some rumour going around near where we sat that a roof / wall had collapsed). When we got home there it was and it was shocking to see the pictures then. A sad day for our fan community...but if we can take a positive from it it is that the authorities began to wake up to the appauling way fans on-mass were treated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) The previous year’s FA Cup semi-final at Hillsborough was between Liverpool and Forest, with exactly the same stadium allocation to the two clubs. The match went off without any problem. I just finished watching "Hillsborough Remembered" (History Channel) with many people pointing out how the warning signs where visible that day.... Dodging a bullet once isn't the be all and end all is it... Edited April 15, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I just finished watching "Hillsborough Remembered" (History Channel) with many people pointing out how the warning signs where visible that day.... Dodging a bullet once isn't the be all and end all is it... Sorry, I don't understand your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) Sorry, I don't understand your post. What's not to understand ? The warnings signs of how dangerous that ground was where visible 12 months earlier... It was visible at every ground in the country! Their is a documentary on the History channel with people commenting about how the warning signs where visible 12 months earlier... Edited April 15, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) Just to clear this up regarding the clubs... Taylor made criticism of Sheffield Wednesday Football Club stating that they had contributed to the disaster because: The Leppings Lane end was unsatisfactory and ill suited. Others would criticise both the Club and Sheffield City Council for the fact that the ground did not have a valid safety certificate: The certificate took no account of the 1981 and 1985 alterations of the ground. http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/taylor.shtm Edited April 15, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 What's not to understand ? The warnings signs of how dangerous that ground was where visible 12 months earlier... It was visible at every ground in the country! Their is a documentary on the History channel with people commenting about how the warning signs where visible 12 months earlier... I don't understand what those warning signs were twelve months earlier, when everything went off satisfactorily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) I don't understand what those warning signs were twelve months earlier, when everything went off satisfactorily. I think thats a key word... Is cramming so many fans onto to standing terracing behind fences ok ? Watch the footage of that game and look at what happens at the front when the crowd "surge".. Taylor report said the following: He made no criticism of the Football Association in his Interim Report stating that their decision to use the Hillsborough ground as the semi-final for the second consecutive year was fine as the 1988 game : ...had been considered a successfully managed event. My opinion is that was it "considered a successfully managed even" because no one died ?? It certainly didnt look ok to me... None of what happen in the 80's looked ok to me... Watch the documentary other peopel have expressed this view point... and taylor drew the following conclusion... However in his Final Report he criticised the venue: ...in selecting Hillsborough as the venue for the cup semi-final, the Football Aasociation did not consider in any depth whether it was suitable.... Edited April 15, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markoasis Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Hillsborough Stadium was a regular venue for FA Cup semi-finals during the 1980s, hosting a total of five. A previous crush had occurred in the same stand during the 1981 semi-final between Tottenham Hotspur and Wolverhampton Wanderers, causing a total of 38 injuries. This prompted Sheffield Wednesday to alter the design of the Leppings Lane end, dividing it into three separate pens. This was further divided into five pens when Wednesday were promoted to the First Division in 1984. Liverpool and Nottingham Forest had also met at the semi-final stage of the same competition at the same ground the previous year with many Liverpool fans reporting crushing in the Leppings Lane end, leading to Liverpool FC lodging a complaint prior to the 1989 FA Cup Semi-Final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I think thats a key word... Is cramming so many fans onto to standing terracing behind fences ok ? Watch the footage of that game and look at what happens at the front when the crowd "surge".. My opinion is that was it "considered a successfully managed even" because no one died ?? It certainly didnt look ok to me... None of what happen in the 80's looked ok to me... I undestand now what you're saying. With the benefit of hindsight, you're saying crowd surges in the 80s were an accident waiting to happen. Not only was it "considered a successfully managed event" in 1988, because nobody died, but also because the arrangements, at a stadium used regularly for FA Cup semi-finals, worked satisfactorily. I was not aware of what Markoasis has posted about crushing in 1988: Liverpool and Nottingham Forest had also met at the semi-final stage of the same competition at the same ground the previous year with many Liverpool fans reporting crushing in the Leppings Lane end, leading to Liverpool FC lodging a complaint prior to the 1989 FA Cup Semi-Final. and I do not think that is referred to in the Taylor Report. I'm not defending anyone over what happened. Lord Taylor said "...in selecting Hillsborough as the venue for the cup semi-final, the Football Aasociation did not consider in any depth whether it was suitable....". As the 1988 arrangements had worked satisfactorily, it was reasonable to assume that everything would be OK on the day once again. The question is therefore what was different on the 15th April 1989? I would explain that I was present on both occasions on the Kop looking towards the Leppings Lane End and I refer to my own observations. In 1988 the Liverpool fans took up their places in the Leppings Lane End gradually over a period of 90 minutes leading to the kick-off, filling the centre and side sections of the End. In 1989 only the centre section looked full by 3:00pm. The Taylor Report says a large number of Liverpool fans, including what Lord Taylor described as a “drunken minority”, arrived at the Leppings Lane End shortly before the kick-off. No decision was taken to delay the kick-off and to relieve the dangerous congestion at the turnstiles, the decision was taken to open Gate C. The crucial mistake was that a person was not positioned at the entrance to the centre tunnel, to inform fans that that section was already full and direct them to the two side tunnels, leading to the comparatively empty terraces. The fans headed down the centre tunnel knowing that the game had already kicked off and in their determination to miss as little of the game as possible, they kept pushing each other as they inched their way down the tunnel, resulting in their fellow fans being crushed by the barriers and by the fencing at the front of the terrace. It really is a crying shame that this tragedy could so easily have been avoided, especially in the light of what Markoasis posted above R.I.P. the 96 victims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) I don't understand what those warning signs were twelve months earlier, when everything went off satisfactorily. Diego, there had been serious incidents in the Leppings Lane End at FA CUp Semi-Finals in both 1981 and 1986. Luckily no-one was killed but injuries did occur. Hillborough's Safety Certificate had expired in the 1970s - despite this it was used as a high-profile netral venue. In 1984 the crush barriers had been rearranged after Wednesday were promoted, nevertheless there were incidents in 1986. The rearranged terrace and barriers created a situation where that a 'pen' that was supposed to hold 2,000, in reality was only able to 'safely' hold around 1,600. The original terrace was modified into 3 pens in 1981 - again due to the incidences of crushing and over-crowding. In 1984 the lay-out was again changed to five pens. The year before the police had implemented a system of cordons to ensure that only fans with tickets could reach the turnstiles, this alleviated any chance of chaos at the turnstiles. Crucially police and the limited number of stewards in service directed fans to the other pens once the two central pens were full. Prior to the semi-Final Liverpool FC and fans made 100's of complaints regarding the ticket allocation and relayed stories of crushing and overcrowding the year before. One of the reasons given for Forest receiving the much larger allocation on the Hillsborough Kop was that it made good sense in a sergregational sense AND the end was easier for Forest fans to get back onto the M1!!! There were a number of factors which changed in 1989, firstly Liverpool were allocated 24,000 tickets - Forest 30,000. The Match commander was inexperienced and failed to incorporate the systems used successfully the year before. Road works on the M62 and a lack of direction from both police and non-existent stewards contributed to the chaos that ensued. The FA were accountable on a number of issues:- Choice of venue and allocation Using a venue with a history of incidents A venue without a valid safety certificate Failing to delay the kick off Edited April 15, 2009 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Diego, there had been serious incidents in the Leppings Lane End at FA CUp Semi-Finals in both 1981 and 1986. Luckily no-one was killed but injuries did occur. Hillborough's Safety Certificate had expired in the 1970s - despite this it was used as a high-profile netral venue. In 1984 the crush barriers had been rearranged after Wednesday were promoted, nevertheless there were incidents in 1986. The rearranged terrace and barriers created a situation where that a 'pen' that was supposed to hold 2,000, in reality was only able to 'safely' hold around 1,600. The original terrace was modified into 3 pens in 1981 - again due to the incidences of crushing and over-crowding. In 1984 the lay-out was again changed to five pens. The year before the police had implemented a system of cordons to ensure that only fans with tickets could reach the turnstiles, this alleviated any chance of chaos at the turnstiles. Crucially police and the limited number of stewards in service directed fans to the other pens once the two central pens were full. Prior to the semi-Final Liverpool FC and fans made 100's of complaints regarding the ticket allocation and relayed stories of crushing and overcrowding the year before. One of the reasons given for Forest receiving the much larger allocation on the Hillsborough Kop was that it made good sense in a sergregational sense AND the end was easier for Forest fans to get back onto the M1!!! There were a number of factors which changed in 1989, firstly Liverpool were allocated 24,000 tickets - Forest 30,000. The Match commander was inexperienced and failed to incorporate the systems used successfully the year before. Road works on the M62 and a lack of direction from both police and non-existent stewards contributed to the chaos that ensued. The FA were accountable on a number of issues:- Choice of venue and allocation Using a venue with a history of incidents A venue without a valid safety certificate Failing to delay the kick off I take your points about the history of semi-finals at Hillsborough. Just dealing with the comparison between the 1988 and 19i89 semi-finals, I have always believed that the allocation of the tickets between the clubs was the same for both years. I've already said elsewhere that iI was unaware of any reported crushing and overcrowding in 1988 as was the Taylor Report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I take your points about the history of semi-finals at Hillsborough. Just dealing with the comparison between the 1988 and 19i89 semi-finals, I have always believed that the allocation of the tickets between the clubs was the same for both years. I've already said elsewhere that iI was unaware of any reported crushing and overcrowding in 1988 as was the Taylor Report. Complaints were made to the FA and Liverpool though, but for the grace of God and a little better organisation in 1988 eh? Just think twelve months later we were standing at an FA Cup Semi-Final, it could have easily been fellow Latics caught up in that carnage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I was stood in The Chaddy that day for the Sunderland home game. A guy stood near me had a radio and said to us all that the FA Cup Semi had been stopped because Liverpool supporters were on the pitch. To my shame I said something along the lines of "bloody Scousers at it again." It wasn't until I got home and saw the drama unfolding on Grandstand that I realised the true extent and cause of what had happened. It was a truly, truly awful day. R.I.P the 96. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I was stood in The Chaddy that day for the Sunderland home game. A guy stood near me had a radio and said to us all that the FA Cup Semi had been stopped because Liverpool supporters were on the pitch. To my shame I said something along the lines of "bloody Scousers at it again." It wasn't until I got home and saw the drama unfolding on Grandstand that I realised the true extent and cause of what had happened. It was a truly, truly awful day. R.I.P the 96. A few stood around me on the Chaddy End that day Ghost laughed ironically and said the same 'bloody scousers!' No-one at that point knew what was unfolding at Hillsborough and as you say the horror to many who had stood on terraces throughout the country only unfolded when returning home to a very sombre Des Lynam and Bob Wilson. One thing I do remember about that day was the fact we scored a last-minute equaliser, the celebration seemed muted somehow - now on reflection perhaps the hand held transistors in the Chaddy had begun to reveal the horrors of what had happened. It is something that will stay with forever, like when Kennedy was shot, the twin towers were attacked....everyone knows where they were when the Hillsborough disaster unfolded. I was 12 at the time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I was stood in The Chaddy that day for the Sunderland home game. A guy stood near me had a radio and said to us all that the FA Cup Semi had been stopped because Liverpool supporters were on the pitch. To my shame I said something along the lines of "bloody Scousers at it again." It wasn't until I got home and saw the drama unfolding on Grandstand that I realised the true extent and cause of what had happened. It was a truly, truly awful day. R.I.P the 96. The ignorance you experienced about what was really happening at Hillsborough was the same for those of us who were there. There were no PA announcements about what was happening and it was not apparent from the opposite end of the ground. We left the stadium at 3:40pm after the Liverpool fans had demolished the goal and it was obvious the game would not continue. We were unaware of any deaths until we got back to the car and listened to the radio on the way home. In 1988 the Liverpool fans had gone on the pitch fans and taunted the Forest fans during Liverpool's victory celebrations. In 1989 the Forest fans had a collective guilt about their ignorant reaction to the Liverpool fans on the pitch. The police formed a cordon across the pitch to prevent the Liverpool fans reaching the Forest fans. It all seems so unbelievable now, but it's an experience I would never want to go through again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) I got home from the match to be met by mum who looked white... She had been shopping in town and had heard about a crush at a football ground and straight away worried it was BP... I am sure a lot of people had similar initial scares around the country... She had been watching it all unfold on TV while I was at a ground... Cant begin to think what was going through her mind... I remember coming into the house and just standing their and thinking that could of been me and my dad... scared the living hell out of me... I was only about 8... Wont ever forget it.. Edited April 15, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I got home to be met by mum who looked white... She had been shopping in town and had heard about a crush at a football ground and straight away worried it was BP... I am sure a lot of people had similar initial scares around the country... She had been watching it all unfold on TV while I was at a ground... Cant begin to think what was going through her mind... I remember coming into the house and just standing their and thinking that could of been me and my dad... scared the living hell out of me... I was only about 8... Wont ever forget it.. I was there with oafc_ok and his schoolmate. Mrs Sideburns had been shopping and was at home watching Grandstand's coverage of it and hearing the rumours about what had happened - it was much later that the true story came out. There were no mobile phones then. We stopped at a phone box in Sheffield to let her know and oafc_ok's mate's parents know we were OK. The journey back home listening to the radio was heart-breaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I take your points about the history of semi-finals at Hillsborough. Just dealing with the comparison between the 1988 and 19i89 semi-finals, I have always believed that the allocation of the tickets between the clubs was the same for both years. I've already said elsewhere that iI was unaware of any reported crushing and overcrowding in 1988 as was the Taylor Report. From Lord Justice Taylor's Interim Report PART I - WHAT HAPPENED AT HILLSBOROUGH? CHAPTER 1 THE GROUND AND PRE-MATCH ARRANGEMENTS Fixing The Venue 21. On 20 March 1989, the Football Association (the FA) requested that their Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest be held on 15 April at Hillsborough Football Stadium. The corresponding semi-final between the same two teams had been held there in April 1988. The arrangements had been successful in the view both of the police and of the host club. Sheffield Wednesday (the Club) were therefore willing to accommodate the 1989 match. South Yorkshire Constabulary were prepared to police it but only if the ticketing arrangements were the same as those for 1988. Otherwise, the FA would have to look elsewhere. Those arrangements did not please Liverpool or its supporters either in 1988 or 1989. They thought the ticket allocation was unfair for reasons to be explained later. Reluctantly, however, the police requirement was accepted and the match was fixed for 15 April at Hillsborough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 From Lord Justice Taylor's Interim Report PART I - WHAT HAPPENED AT HILLSBOROUGH? CHAPTER 1 THE GROUND AND PRE-MATCH ARRANGEMENTS Fixing The Venue 21. On 20 March 1989, the Football Association (the FA) requested that their Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest be held on 15 April at Hillsborough Football Stadium. The corresponding semi-final between the same two teams had been held there in April 1988. The arrangements had been successful in the view both of the police and of the host club. Sheffield Wednesday (the Club) were therefore willing to accommodate the 1989 match. South Yorkshire Constabulary were prepared to police it but only if the ticketing arrangements were the same as those for 1988. Otherwise, the FA would have to look elsewhere. Those arrangements did not please Liverpool or its supporters either in 1988 or 1989. They thought the ticket allocation was unfair for reasons to be explained later. Reluctantly, however, the police requirement was accepted and the match was fixed for 15 April at Hillsborough. Unlike the Kop end, the west terracing has not only crush barriers parallel with the goal line but radial fences at right angles to it, dividing the area into pens. This division was begun after an FA Cup semi-final in 1981 when crushing occurred due to overcrowding and gates had to be opened. It proceeded in stages, the final arrangement being shown on the plan Appendix 1. The first section of the west terracing moving south to north contains gates 1 and 2 and is known as pens 1 and 2 although in fact constituting only one pen. Next is pen 3 with one gate; next pen 4 with one gate; pen 5, which is extremely narrow, was intended as a sterile area to divide pen 4 from pen 6. This was to isolate home and away fans on occasions when both might be accommodated on the west terracing in separate pens. Finally there is pen 7 at the north-west corner. Pens 5,6 and 7 each have a perimeter gate. At the back of the pens, under the front of the west stand, there is a gate in each radial fence. When those gates are open, the back row of the terracing is intended to permit access from pen to pen along the whole west side. In practice, when substantial numbers are present, those gateways are not readily visible or accessible. The present layout of the pens, fences, crush barriers and gates has resulted from a series of piecemeal changes. The nature and effect of those changes must be considered later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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