help_shiny Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6484279.stm ifteen British Navy personnel have been captured at gunpoint by Iranian forces, the Ministry of Defence says. The men were seized at 1030 local time when they boarded a boat in the Gulf, off the coast of Iraq, which they suspected was smuggling cars. The Royal Navy said it was doing everything it could to secure the release of the sailors and marines who are based on HMS Cornwall. They were said to be carrying out a routine patrol in Iraqi waters. Gulf map The Ministry of Defence said: "The group boarding party had completed a successful inspection of a merchant ship when they and their two boats were surrounded and escorted by Iranian vessels into Iranian territorial waters. "We are urgently pursuing this matter with the Iranian authorities at the highest level. "The British government is demanding the immediate and safe return of our people and equipment." It is understood the men being held are safe and well. Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett has summoned the Iranian ambassador to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, in an attempt to get the sailors and marines released as quickly as possible. HMS CORNWALL FACTS Multi-national force flagship in the North Arabian Gulf Type 22 frigate Crew: 250 (Max 301) Length: 148.1m / 485.9ft Speed: 30 knots Source: Royal Navy In a statement, leader of the Liberal Democrats, Sir Menzies Campbell, also called for their immediate release. "Whatever the rights and wrongs of military action, British forces in Iraq are now there with the authority of a UN security council resolution... and the Iranian government should be left in no doubt of the serious implications of their action," he said. In 2004, Iran detained eight British servicemen for three days after they allegedly strayed over the maritime border. The UK claimed the men were "forcibly escorted" into Iranian territorial waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Uh-oh, a job for the SBS? Nice, tidy and quiet. No mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 puppy poo. Think my mate who is in the Navy is on HMS Cornwall in the Gulf. :sad: Edit: FFS! Puppy Poo? Berlox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
help_shiny Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 it looks like they're going to be held as political pawns for the time being. How delightful for them to be held as 'guests' of the Islamic Republic. Once we get them back then the next time they try and pull a stunt like this we should vapourise a couple of their patrol boats and say 'oops, sorry you were five miles within Iraqi waters and we thought you were an Al Qaeda suicide squad. Sorry, wont do it again' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Thats a great way to fix the problems we created mate yeh... just kill a few people, that'll do the trick! There is a reason the USA is hated across the world, and its because (without looking for the exact quote) "we'd have fought back and killed them rather than be captured". There is little doubt this is not a 'misunderstanding' but killing them isn't going to help the situation is it!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
help_shiny Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 Thats a great way to fix the problems we created mate yeh... just kill a few people, that'll do the trick! There is a reason the USA is hated across the world, and its because (without looking for the exact quote) "we'd have fought back and killed them rather than be captured". There is little doubt this is not a 'misunderstanding' but killing them isn't going to help the situation is it!? we shouldnt be there in the first place. Its a catastrophic ballsup from start to finish. Blair,Bush, the lot of them should be up in court. HOWEVER...we're there, we're stuck there and if we just let the Iranians tip up whenever they feel like it and kidnap our servicemen without anything stronger than the Foreign Office getting a little bit cross then we are putting the safety of every single serviceman and woman out there at even greater risk. This is the second time this has happened - they can act with impunity and they will kidnap more and this time or maybe next time we wont get them back. They'll be paraded up and down on Iranian TV and then probably be given some comfy lodgings at an Iranian nuclear power plant. Kidnapping our people in Iraqi waters is an act of aggression - doing the Ghandi act wont work with this lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Neither will killing a dozen of them! It's called the reasonable middle ground! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
help_shiny Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 Neither will killing a dozen of them! It's called the reasonable middle ground! Yes, just what the Dutch like to tell themselves about Srebnica. If the Revolutionary Guard knew full well that if they turn up in their boats to kidnap people they are just about to get an imminent air strike on them then methinks they wouldnt do it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I know little of the Serb conflict, but I doubt that the 'threat of an air strike' would work - they already have that from the Yanks, and they know that just becuase they're Brits who've been taken wouldn't stop the Americans going in guns blazing! The Americans, for better or worse (depending on your point of view), have conducted most of their actions in a 'shoot first' manner, and it hasn't prevented them from massive casualties and losses, not just now but for the last 50 years! It's all perspective and I am always interested to hear other peoples, but in my opinon being there is bad enough, being there and shooting anything which you're not sure of is a sure fire way of dragging more nations into the conflict on the 'wrong' side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Let these boys get their mates out, no worries - it's all in hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
help_shiny Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 Let these boys get their mates out, no worries - it's all in hand... I think the yanks thought the same twenty odd years ago - didnt work too well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I think the yanks thought the same twenty odd years ago - didnt work too well They were American. It was twenty years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
help_shiny Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 They were American. It was twenty years ago. even if our lot know where they are I dare say they're in a very secure prison somewhere. While I think hitting the Iranians with a bloody big stick is a good idea if they try it on with us I dont think we should go bowling in and kicking ass! I suspect we'd lose a lot of guys. Plus world opinion might not be too pleased with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I'm quite an opinionated person, and I stand by my opinions, however I also accept I am not always right, and if someone who knows more proves to me they were right I accept that and learn from it... I also accept that things are never set in stone, situations change... and as such I think it is now time to enter Iran and fix this mess. Iran are openly breaking a host of international agreements by showing prisoners on TV and it's about time we stopped it. There is a host of evidence from multiple sources which shows that our forces were not in Iranian water and they are, simply, taking the p**s now! Get in, sort it and get out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Get in, sort it and get out! Easier said than done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 True, but sitting and holding our collective balls clearly isn't working! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
help_shiny Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share Posted March 30, 2007 piling in will get us nowhere - we wouldnt stand a chance. However, our rules of engagement need to change - once we've got the 15 back - so that the next time they try this on (and there will be a next time) they get hammered. That is do-able, rescuing the 15 isnt. I'd like to see the EU do something - stop exports to Iran for example. Too much to hope for though unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 The EU will never be able to do anything without the US agreeing to it, becuase of the WTO, and the Yanks are the Yanks, you never know where they'll stand on something until they've worked out what will be the most profitable! Trade restrictions are immensly difficult to implement, especially in a quick threat kind of way... they would have no impact for months! I know it's not practical, but I think the time for debate is gone, I think we need to threaten, kick, punch and scream until they are released... it's mental that in the modern world they can just take these people and think that's ok! I support peace and I don't want to see Iranians and Britains die needlessly, but the time seems to be for action. How much is too much? A month? 6 months? a year? when do we say that we DEMAND them back and not ASK for them back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Maggie would have sorted this out days ago.... Get our lads and lasses out then it's seige tactics. Shell 'em, then starve 'em, then shell 'em some more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetramfixer Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 (edited) Maggie would have sorted this out days ago.... Get our lads and lasses out then it's seige tactics. Shell 'em, then starve 'em, then shell 'em some more... i think that we all assume that iran's forces are at the same state as iraq's!!! you have to bear in mind that iraq has been battered almost continously since jan 16th 1991..( i think thats when the GW1 air war kicked off!) iran is a different kettle of fish completely.. they apparently have some serious hardware that they have just got from the russians which would sort the ships lynx out in no time whatsoever as for special forces, well for what we all know they may/may not be already there.. but thats probably why they moved the 15 some interesting stuff on these two sites....... http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=4926 ........ http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=5073 and the navy one........ http://www.rumration.co.uk/cpgn2/index.php...mp;t=5275#90746 and even the army have got involved but are speedily closing their threads for security reasons... (ie scum journo's using them as info!!) http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=61924.html Edited March 30, 2007 by thetramdriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mckenzie Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Sad but true, this was a declaration of war by Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 No way in the world we could get them out through force. No doubt they'll let them go sooner or later, hopefully sooner, it's a tough call about how much pressure to apply as they will dig in to avoid humiliation. When they are out, get the hell out of the whole region and leave them to it. It makes no difference who controls the oilfields - let them sell it to the camels fi they can get a decent price from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 as for special forces, well for what we all know they may/may not be already there.. but thats probably why they moved the 15 some interesting stuff on these two sites....... and even the army have got involved but are speedily closing their threads for security reasons... (ie scum journo's using them as info!!) http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=61924.html I agree tramdriver, the special forces have been there since the very early days of the crisis. It's an option, although I figure the 15 are being moved around at least daily - which would render any intelligence gathered unusable very quickly. As for ARRSE - quality army community site that is, I've been a regular reader for some time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetramfixer Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 As for ARRSE - quality army community site that is, I've been a regular reader for some time... not as good as the goat though........ but being ex RAF i would say that!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Pleased to say, they're on their way home! >>>> LINK <<<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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