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MP Claims and Expenses


Macca

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.. facing each other in the manner they do is antagonistic to start with then the gap between them is just over 2 sabre lengths apart so that members are unable to fight each other with swords! The whole thing is worse than 2 kids standing pointing at each other saying "he started it" and leads to antagonism rather than being conducive to good government.

 

Does this sound familiar to Rochdale Road Enders? B)

Edited by Diego_Sideburns
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We had this discussion in the White Hart some time ago, I couldn't argue with your point then and I can't today but you could decide which is your least favourable outcome and do your bit to stop that happening. There are no guarantees that the result won't be your least favourable one but that is part of the strength/weakness of democracy.

 

i remember that conversation well..and nothing really has changed since them 4 years have passed in this shady world of politics.

voting for crackpot#1 though won't make a difference,unless everyone else is in the same way of tactical voting.

spoiling papers imo just gets a mention at the end of the voting results.if there was a huge huge amount and it came into a bigger number than some parties count,then it would get noticed.

not turning up sends a message-sick of it all,non are trustworthy.

but i know,i have to use my right to vote.and you are correct.

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The problem with this is that it's heavily reliant on everyone being politically clued up.

 

Not saying you, but a person saying they didn't vote because they weren't clued up politically is a person who has no right to complain about how the country is being governed. God forbid, but if people think the BNP would do a better job, then they should vote accordingly. The choice has to be to vote for the party you think s the lesser of all the perceived evils, but everyone should make the effort to vote.

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Yeah. Until or unless the system changes, using your vote is one of the few ways you have to influence change, so it's your responsibility to do it to the best of your ability. Someone who doesn't do their homework and votes without thinking it through gets no right to complain when it goes to pieces.

 

(Not aiming this post at anyone here.)

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I'm a big fan of people spoiling their paper <snigger> to make the effort to go to the booth and either scribble on it or write a message on is highly commendable, even if the only person who sees it is the person who is counting the ballots. It is democracy in action, you have the right to vote and the right not to use that right and the right to spoil your paper. As you say the amount of spoiled papers is read out as part of the count and at times I wish this number was higher, it also differentiates the people who just couldn't be arsed from the people who want to register their complaint.

 

Can't fault your thoughts but all this will take a long time. Meanwhile if everyone uses their vote, whoever gets into power will have a true majority, rather than a majority of the minority who make the effort to vote. Even if unhappy at the thought of voting a party in, at least you can have the satisfaction of keeping an unwanted party out.

 

Aye, it will take time but that is one thing we have in plentiful supply and is no reason not to start the process that will ultimately deliver us better government, better politics and hopefully a better world. Until then we have to make the best of the system we have and you are right, it does need a lot more people to engage with it to give it more credibility and to keep the lunatic fringes at all ends of the spectrum exactly where they belong.

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Not saying you, but a person saying they didn't vote because they weren't clued up politically is a person who has no right to complain about how the country is being governed. God forbid, but if people think the BNP would do a better job, then they should vote accordingly. The choice has to be to vote for the party you think s the lesser of all the perceived evils, but everyone should make the effort to vote.

 

I'm an unapologetic, unpolitically-clued-up non-voter. I have no idea how the government works; manifestos and the like baffle me. (I hasten to add that I don't complain about the government, either.)

 

It simply holds no interest for me. I agree that it probably should, but I'm an apathetic sort at the best of times.

 

My question now is: How should I vote?

 

(Another 'hasten to add': I'm not looking for a ruck :D)

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I'm an unapologetic, unpolitically-clued-up non-voter. I have no idea how the government works; manifestos and the like baffle me. (I hasten to add that I don't complain about the government, either.)

 

It simply holds no interest for me. I agree that it probably should, but I'm an apathetic sort at the best of times.

 

My question now is: How should I vote?

 

(Another 'hasten to add': I'm not looking for a ruck :D)

 

Some appropriate quotes for the current situation:

 

Abraham Lincoln:

If you once forfeit the confidence of your fellow citizens, you can never regain their respect and esteem. It is true that you may fool all of the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all of the time; but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

 

Aesop:

We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.

 

George Orwell:

In our age there is no such thing as "keeping out of politics." All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia.

 

Charles de Gaulle:

I have come to the conclusion that politics is too serious a matter to be left to the politicians.

 

George Burns:

Too bad that all the people who really know how to run the country are busy driving taxi cabs and cutting hair

 

 

Read the party leaflets pushed through your door, listen to the election broadcasts, consider which party is likely to run the country best and cast your vote* accordingly.

 

* In making your mark on the ballot paper, ensure it is a X and not the mark of Zorro, which will result in a spoilt paper and lost vote. :grin:

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not turning up sends a message-sick of it all,non are trustworthy.

but i know,i have to use my right to vote.and you are correct.

JP, honest question - not trying to have a go. If you don't vote to change the system, no matter how poor the options, do you act in other ways? Are you an 'activist' (for want of a better word) or are you simply so dejected as to do nothing?

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JP, honest question - not trying to have a go. If you don't vote to change the system, no matter how poor the options, do you act in other ways? Are you an 'activist' (for want of a better word) or are you simply so dejected as to do nothing?

 

me?

i'm completely in the "dejected do nothing camp" i suppose...and thats more than the actual voters of this country .

uk is in a mess,its going to be a bloody long time before it finds its feet again and unfortunately,the majority of this country feel the same.

i pointed out that there needed to be change about voting.making it compulsory is extreme,but there needs to get the apathetic types off to vote.change it on a sunday..have over the weekend?

this country must have one of the lowest turnout in europe ..no wonder we have crap crooked politicians running it.

i intend to vote in the next general election.fully.this will be the time everyone needs to show their contempt as to how this country has been drowning in its own greed by the have it alls,the banking system that has failed the british public,and the reckless taxpayers money continually being wasted and used for some pm's new massage chairs and home porn channels.

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Yeah. Until or unless the system changes, using your vote is one of the few ways you have to influence change, so it's your responsibility to do it to the best of your ability. Someone who doesn't do their homework and votes without thinking it through gets no right to complain when it goes to pieces.

If I find myself in a room where a group of people propose taking half of certain people in the room's money, enforcing certain ways of behaving on them, perhaps giving themselves and their friends positions of power in the room and so on, but propose that their idea be put to the vote in the room, it may well give me a practical reason for voting, but it certainly doesn't mean that I have no right to complain if they do it anyway, even if they win the vote on a 100% turnout.

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However your good point was that, like Adolf Hitler, Nick Griffin and the BNP, just like every other party, are using the technique of mass communication (election broadcast) to get the message across. Also like Hitler, this is being done against a background of economic depression and political turmoil. Against that background the Nazis grew stronger and in the 1932 elections became the largest party - the BNP hope to do the same.

 

Everyone who has a vote should use it rather than regret later.

 

Who's to say anyone would regret? Call me a 'racist', but I got a BNP flyer through my door last week and I thought it made some sense.....

 

I won't be voting for them mind, I won't vote for anyone ever. Makes no odds to me which idiots 'run' the country - the damage has been done.

 

Actually, maybe I'll vote for the Green Party. They seem to have an idea of what we should be all pulling together to achieve, rather than selfishly worrying about things like taxes, healthcare and cheap :censored: petrol.

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Who's to say anyone would regret? Call me a 'racist', but I got a BNP flyer through my door last week and I thought it made some sense.....

It does make sense. The contents of the leaflet on the face of it make absolute sense. They have moved in to ground that the mainstream parties have shamefully avoided.

 

The only problem I have with the BNP is that one or two common sense statements on an electoral leaflet does not hide the fact that they are nasty scumbags who are more interested in stirring up trouble rather than changing the country for the better.

 

Oldham is yet to elect a BNP councillor and despite the failings of the other parties standing I hope it remains that way forever.

 

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I wont be interested to see which puppets are manouvered into government.

 

you will..cause its a mess....and they will eventually drag YOU in this mess.

 

see that mp from dewsbury who was found out fiddling?

massage chair,hi fi system etc etc.."done nothing wrong" on tv he says and very proud he looked too...gets suspended from labour party pending"enquires"... lol yeah right!

 

his feckin labour party members in dewsbury where praising him on tv last night to the heavens saying it was all an "misunderstanding"!!

WTF!

 

its a feckin swizz..you .as tax payers,are paying for this.

koffman...got you and i to pay a carpet to be flown from new york to his home..cost?

£1800 !!!!!!!!

as the very great Lord Jonathon Of Rottenshire once stated...

 

"EVER GET THE FEELING YOU'VE BEEN CHEATED?"

 

YUP!

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you will..cause its a mess....and they will eventually drag YOU in this mess.

 

see that mp from dewsbury who was found out fiddling?

massage chair,hi fi system etc etc.."done nothing wrong" on tv he says and very proud he looked too...gets suspended from labour party pending"enquires"... lol yeah right!

 

his feckin labour party members in dewsbury where praising him on tv last night to the heavens saying it was all an "misunderstanding"!!

WTF!

 

its a feckin swizz..you .as tax payers,are paying for this.

koffman...got you and i to pay a carpet to be flown from new york to his home..cost?

£1800 !!!!!!!!

as the very great Lord Jonathon Of Rottenshire once stated...

 

"EVER GET THE FEELING YOU'VE BEEN CHEATED?"

 

YUP!

 

Calm down mate. Had he bought a carpet in Oldham, or just paid for that one himself, our lives would be identical. I'd say that if the entire civil service expenses bill was in the governments 'coffers' it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to us. The only difference would be numbers on computer screens. It's just whinging for whinging's sake.

 

Fancy getting all pissed off about something as insignificant as this - people worry about the wrong kind of things.

 

Best thing to do is enjoy the simpler things in life. I have just uncovered an opportunity to go and live in a place called pacific beach if I want.....who cares about trudging down to the local primary school hall to vote for some :censored: who should only ever impact on your life if you're somehow sad enough to let them.

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BUT HE DIDN'T...IT WAS IN NEW YORK...SO WHY DID WE HAVE TO FOR IT????

 

I'd say that if the entire civil service expenses bill was in the governments 'coffers' it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to us. The only difference would be numbers on computer screens. It's just whinging for whinging's sake.

 

Ooh....have you counted up these rip off over the last 30 odd years???

its all added up! and we've all paid for it..you, me and the blues brothers!

 

Fancy getting all pissed off about something as insignificant as this - people worry about the wrong kind of things.

 

[i'm guessing here now,you aint arsed where your hard working paid for taxes go.......unless you work?]

 

Best thing to do is enjoy the simpler things in life. I have just uncovered an opportunity to go and live in a place called pacific beach if I want.....who cares about trudging down to the local primary school hall to vote for some :censored: who should only ever impact on your life if you're somehow sad enough to let them.

see ya then...be there when then kids grow up!]

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We haven't paid for :censored:. Do you realise what the national debt is? And don't say we have to pay that off.....because it never can be paid off.

 

And yes I pay tax and I don't mind one bit - keeps a quiet life and it's roughly the same deal for everyone so we're all roughly back where we were. Jesus - it's almost as if you believe all this money 'we pay' actually exists.... :wink:

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I have just uncovered an opportunity to go and live in a place called pacific beach if I want.

On a side note:

Jesus, go. It's fantabulous. The whole of San Diego is great, but I have a mate who lives five minutes from PB, and it is a whole different world. Easily the best place I've been to in America.

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We haven't paid for :censored:. Do you realise what the national debt is? And don't say we have to pay that off.....because it never can be paid off.

 

And yes I pay tax and I don't mind one bit - keeps a quiet life and it's roughly the same deal for everyone so we're all roughly back where we were. Jesus - it's almost as if you believe all this money 'we pay' actually exists.... :wink:

 

It's not the actual money, it is the principal.

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We haven't paid for :censored:. Do you realise what the national debt is? And don't say we have to pay that off.....because it never can be paid off.

 

And yes I pay tax and I don't mind one bit - keeps a quiet life and it's roughly the same deal for everyone so we're all roughly back where we were. Jesus - it's almost as if you believe all this money 'we pay' actually exists.... :wink:

 

ok..i'll put you in the "its ok..i don't care if they are taking the piss" corner.

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It's not the actual money, it is the principal.

 

But the principal appears to be born out of the sums involved? I don't think anybody is really bothered about the pack of tampons thing for example....it's just makes a good basis for a "did you know?" and a rant. Jonhny Punk seems upset that 'our' £1800 was spent on this carpet delivery where as I think the guy is something of a hero for getting it payed... :lol:

 

 

Edited by Stitch_KTF
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ok..i'll put you in the "its ok..i don't care if they are taking the piss" corner.

 

I don't - it's no skin off my nose. I say good luck to the bloke for making a butty - you ought to after the dope that authorised the payment!

 

You can stand in the corner with the people who get angry about minor issues whilst probably leaving be, or not even recognising, major ones which are much more costly to society.

Edited by Stitch_KTF
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But the principal appears to be born out of the sums involved? I don't think anybody is really bothered about the pack of tampons thing for example....it's just makes a good basis for a "did you know?" and a rant. Jonhny Punk seems upset that 'our' £1800 was spent on this carpet delivery where as I think the guy is something of a hero for getting it payed... :lol: ]

 

 

 

 

but don't you feel..."thats taking the piss?" feck.

what i or you could do with £1800 eh..but would you consider spending £1800 ..of your OWN money..just to import a carpet..would you???

nah..neither would he...but it WASN'T his MONEY...it was the taxpayers..you.me.blues brothers.

if you ain't arsed ,go away and don't reply.thats why this country is full of shruggers ..it happens and no one gives a :censored:.

well,its awoke my feckin life back into this scummy world of politics..i always knew they were scum,but it's hit the fan now :pow: ...and the country are beginning to realise now.

welcome to your summer of discontent!

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