Ackey Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 This photo, taken on June 5th 1989, represents the most recognised image of what happened in Tiananmen Square, Peking (now known as Beijing) in June of 1989. It's startling to think that 20 years have passed since the culmination of months of Student protests (against the corruption and fascist behaviour of the Chinese government) which led to several thousand innocent and unarmed people being killed, as the Peoples Army used tens of thousands of troops armed with assault rifles, accompanied by hundreds of tanks, to forcibly clear the square. I'm privileged to have visited China and to have met many wonderful Chinese. I have stood in Tiananmen Square with tears in my eyes knowing what was given in that cold hard place to try and affect change. I was only six at the time of the events, but I have a memory of them, of knowing that there were events taking place that were unacceptable. Tomorrow, on the twentieth anniversary of this heroic day, take a moment to be thankful that you have freedom in your life, freedom that to this day Chinese never know. That generations of Chinese will never know. And use that thought to power your desire to vote. Utilise your opportunity that others have died for. Reject British fascism. Reject the BNP. Vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 What's your opinion on choosing not to vote, Ackey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 What's your opinion on choosing not to vote, Ackey? As above. I feel that whilst you may not like the options which are presented to you, often a valid argument, it is in this instance vital that all voters act to prevent the BNP from gaining any European seats. This is not a "first over the line" vote (like a general election). In this instance some areas of the country will be represented by the BNP if they gain as little as 11% of the vote. If you oppose fascism or racism in the slightest you should vote tomorrow. It's not a perfect world we live in. I am unhappy with the Labour, Tory, LibDem and Green options presented to me. None represent the majority of my political ideals. But apathy is a killer. Doing nothing is not acceptable when such venomous and evil people stand to benefit from it. I'm very passionate about this, I don't mean to rant at you mate, just the situation we find ourselves in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Rant away. I fully admit to being a political ignoramus. I'm not even registered to vote. The reason I ask is because surely democracy, by definition, is all about choice? Also, people who insist that others should vote share many traits with religious zealots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 I fully admit to being a political ignoramus. I'm not even registered to vote. The reason I ask is because surely democracy, by definition, is all about choice? People do indeed have a choice. However in all aspects of life those with passion often benefit form the apathy of others. You don't really care. You don't want the BNP to succeed (I assume for this example) but you're apathetic. Whilst some racist who does care will bother to go out and vote. +1 to the racists. Enough apathy leads to the succession of evil. 30's Germany is a testement to that. Further, you're not being democratic by not voting. Democracy relies upon the actions of the many to direct the few. Your lack of voting means you are not part of the democratic process, your in surplus to it. Also, people who insist that others should vote share many traits with religious zealots Nah. Religious zealots attempt to enforce their dogma onto others. I'm simply an advocate of action. You have the opporunity and you should take it. If you oppose something you should act. Just because the options presented are not ideal does not make them wrong. If you oppose fascism you have (an expression, poor English I know) to act, but I can't and wouldn't force you. But if my post makes one person go out tomorrow to vote for any party excluding the BNP (lord even the idiots at UKIP are better!) then I will have done my small part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Okay, I'll cut you a (very one sided) deal. Next time there's an election, I'll vote for A. N. Other party apart from the BNP. Cos I like you, and you're passionate about something. How does that sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Okay, I'll cut you a (very one sided) deal. Next time there's an election, I'll vote for A. N. Other party apart from the BNP. Cos I like you, and you're passionate about something. How does that sound? There's my one. Anyone else is a bonus. And on that note, I shall call it a night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 In fact, no. The deal will be two sided. You're going to teach me politics. - The parties - Their beliefs - How elections work (ie. local/general etc.) - Political jargon and its layman's translation - Anything else that springs to mind Deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 This photo, taken on June 5th 1989, represents the most recognised image of what happened in Tiananmen Square, Peking (now known as Beijing) in June of 1989. It's startling to think that 20 years have passed since the culmination of months of Student protests (against the corruption and fascist behaviour of the Chinese government) which led to several thousand innocent and unarmed people being killed, as the Peoples Army used tens of thousands of troops armed with assault rifles, accompanied by hundreds of tanks, to forcibly clear the square. I'm privileged to have visited China and to have met many wonderful Chinese. I have stood in Tiananmen Square with tears in my eyes knowing what was given in that cold hard place to try and affect change. I was only six at the time of the events, but I have a memory of them, of knowing that there were events taking place that were unacceptable. Tomorrow, on the twentieth anniversary of this heroic day, take a moment to be thankful that you have freedom in your life, freedom that to this day Chinese never know. That generations of Chinese will never know. And use that thought to power your desire to vote. Utilise your opportunity that others have died for. Reject British fascism. Reject the BNP. Vote. Well said. Although such eloquence on these boards is a bit unnerving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I preferred the lego version of that photo. http://enduringamerica.com/2008/12/09/lego-politics/ Regarding the BNP. Personally I reckon they'd get about a tenth of their votes if people would stop going round in an alarmest manner saying "Don't vote for these chaps, they're very bad men". They'd get about as much as the Jury Party if everyone would just ignore them as the idiots they are. Now they've been given the air-time, people will use them as their protest vote as they know it is the last thing all the politicians want - which at the moment they count as a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 In fact, no. The deal will be two sided. You're going to teach me politics. - The parties - Their beliefs - How elections work (ie. local/general etc.) - Political jargon and its layman's translation - Anything else that springs to mind Deal? Politics 101, eh? Not exactly easy! How about you just read the ever reliable Wiki page? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Wiki is bollocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Wiki is bollocks. I know, but I don't have the patience to spend 3 hours breaking down the British Political structure for you and the only For Dummies books I can find are for the US system, which is not even close to ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 People do indeed have a choice. However in all aspects of life those with passion often benefit form the apathy of others. You don't really care. You don't want the BNP to succeed (I assume for this example) but you're apathetic. Whilst some racist who does care will bother to go out and vote. +1 to the racists. Enough apathy leads to the succession of evil. 30's Germany is a testement to that. How so Ackey? 1930s Germany was a hotbed of political activism. Sadly the majority of them wanted one form or another of collectivist government and they were only fighting over what flavour it would be. It certainly wasn't apathy that got the Nazis into power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 How so Ackey? 1930s Germany was a hotbed of political activism. Sadly the majority of them wanted one form or another of collectivist government and they were only fighting over what flavour it would be. It certainly wasn't apathy that got the Nazis into power. What he said. A better example would have been France not so long back when Le Pen nearly got elected, ruddy frogs. - Woo hoo, managed to get casual xenophobia into a post decrying extreme right wing politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 How so Ackey? 1930s Germany was a hotbed of political activism. Sadly the majority of them wanted one form or another of collectivist government and they were only fighting over what flavour it would be. It certainly wasn't apathy that got the Nazis into power. An overly zealous example. Hopefully by now it will have worked! Woo hoo, managed to get casual xenophobia into a post decrying extreme right wing politics. An underrated art form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 An overly zealous example. Why go bringing radical Jews into it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I think I had a choice of 13 parties and 100+ candidates at 7.00am this morning. Of the 13 parties I think I narrowed it down to: 3 - caught with their hands in the till 2 - well meaning but silly 1 - totally evil 1 - beyond their headline policy (which I agree with) I don't see what else they offer 6 - didn't really have a clue who they were or what they stood for Of the 100 candidates on offer, I have no idea who any of them are. I do know that those elected will collect £200k a year in expenses for a handful of EasyJet flights to Belgium. While I resisted the temptation to spoil my ballot paper (a perfectly legitmate form of protest in my view) I wandered out of the polling station with an uneasy feeling of thinking British democracy is long dead and my voting has simply reinforced that. Maybe one of the 6 parties I don't have a grasp of offers some sort of hope, but I doubt it. If there is some way of dissolving the three main parties and rebuilding them with conviction politicians who believe in serving the people (and not the other way round) it should be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Why go bringing radical Jews into it? Because I apparently have a poor grasp on the English language? I will go sit in the corner and think about what I've done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkH73 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Because I apparently have a poor grasp on the English language? I will go sit in the corner and think about what I've done. Considering this is my first ever post on here, this is the last subject I expected to be commenting on! I'll be voting tonight when I get home, but I wont have a clue who for. Don't worry, it wont be the BNP numpty brigade. I was taking my GCSEs in 1989, but still remember the tragic events that occurred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Considering this is my first ever post on here, this is the last subject I expected to be commenting on! I'll be voting tonight when I get home, but I wont have a clue who for. Don't worry, it wont be the BNP numpty brigade. I was taking my GCSEs in 1989, but still remember the tragic events that occurred. We're a diverser group mate, welcome aboard. Need anything give me or one of the other Mod's a shout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) There's the Jury Team - Their leading candidate states on his personal statement: "I also believe that the modern medicines taken by mothers during pregnancy and vaccinations given to children after birth are causing mind-bending leading to violence and crime". I wonder if Ester Rantzen agrees? Edited June 4, 2009 by jimsleftfoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 How so Ackey? 1930s Germany was a hotbed of political activism. Sadly the majority of them wanted one form or another of collectivist government and they were only fighting over what flavour it would be. It certainly wasn't apathy that got the Nazis into power. You could say apathy with the more middle of the road parties lead to people gunning for extreme reformists that are the NAZI party. That will be an issue here if people don’t use their votes but those who haven’t learned from the past do. If we don’t like the Labour’s or the Tories, then vote for the liberals or even the green’s. Just don’t jump to the BNP’s or UKIP’S. That way we ensure that the politics stay middle of the road and re-focuses the main parties on what they should be doing to get back into power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 There's the Jury Team - Their leading candidate states on his personal statement: "I also believe that the modern medicines taken by mothers during pregnancy and vaccinations given to children after birth are causing mind-bending leading to violence and crime". Two words: Jenny McCarthy! I follow several sceptics, scientists and medical experts on my Twitter feed and the damage this woman has done with her anti-vaxination activities astounds me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Because I apparently have a poor grasp on the English language? I will go sit in the corner and think about what I've done. zealot c.1300, "member of a militant 1st century Jewish sect which fiercely resisted the Romans in Palestine," from L.L. Zelotes, from Gk. zelotes "one who is a zealous follower," from zeloun "to be zealous," from zelos "zeal" (see zeal). Extended sense of "a fanatical enthusiast" first recorded 1638. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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