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Tiananmen Square


Ackey

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You could say apathy with the more middle of the road parties lead to people gunning for extreme reformists that are the NAZI party. That will be an issue here if people don’t use their votes but those who haven’t learned from the past do.

On most issues you couldn't have fitted a cigarette paper between the Nazis and the left wing Socialists in Germany. Granted the issues where they did differ (world war and genocide spring to mind as the biggies) were quite important but their authoritarian and centralist policies were seen as the progressive way forward among many mainstream socialists around the world. I can't immediately remember the names but some German generals decided against moving against Hitler in his early days because they looked at FDR in the States and decided that Hitler's policies were going the same way as the rest of the world.

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Did A Level History, so i should know a bit about british politics, alas i hardly remember anything :grin: though i did get a B, just missing out on an A :D i do however vote whenever i know an election of any sort takes place, purely because of the sturggles i learnt of for us to be even granted the vote (or universal manhood sufferage for those in the know ;) ). I dont claim to be clued up on any parties at present, and i did vote ukip (is that okay for me to say?) though someone else seemed to suggest they were bad? wish i hadnt now, was tempted to vote for one of the major parties, but felt id vote for someone else instead.

 

Another reason i wanted to vote, was to hopefully have one more vote towards hopefully a party other than BNP elected. No way do i want (mind my language) those racist bastards near any sort of position of power. Our forefathers didnt go to war against the Nazis and bring some measure of peace to the world for a time and stop a powerful base of bigotry at the time for it to be all pissed away by these knobs!!! :ranting: No to BNP!!

 

Hopefully the vast majority of those who voted felt the same!

Edited by Oafc88
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There's the Jury Team - Their leading candidate states on his personal statement: "I also believe that the modern medicines taken by mothers during pregnancy and vaccinations given to children after birth are causing mind-bending leading to violence and crime".

 

I wonder if Ester Rantzen agrees?

 

Isn't that a plot to one of the Simpson's. I'm not going to bore you with how strongly I am in favour of vaccinations but you can guess by my user name.

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Yeah, but we can all play the game of sticking left/right wing politicians as one. Labour are nothing short of communists*, etc.

 

I think it quite reasonable that people either voted for the only party (within reason) really trying to prevent us going along with the Lisbon Treaty (the Conservatives may, in the same way that Labour will have a referendum about it). They are also the more harmless protest vote. They (hopefully) get your point made without causing any lasting damage. The only problem with this election is that the main parties will mis-interpret that some people want a referendum before committing all of our power (rather than nearly all of it) to central Europe, as a vote against a bunch of corrupt politicians who have been caught with their snouts in the trough.

 

 

 

*This no longer works since Labour became the Tories.

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Yep. I think there's a website now which is called the Jenny McCarthy Deathcount. I think it estimates those that have died due to ignoring conventional medicines and vaccines, and have alternatively used homeopathy, "magic potions" and other woo-woo.

 

I blame Operah Winfrey for this idiot.

 

 

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Isn't that a plot to one of the Simpson's. I'm not going to bore you with how strongly I am in favour of vaccinations but you can guess by my user name.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you on both the vaccinations and the simpsons plot lol. He also goes on to say that more (unproven) homeopathic medicines should be used instead. Is this supposed to be an alternative?

 

Not a medic myself but my mother’s a midwife and I advise Profs on financial stuff to do with Medical Research, so some of it rubs off.

 

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I don't know how much you know about homeopathy JLF, but it's just water in a bottle. The solution is diluted so many times that there is no trace of the minute remedy that was used in the first place. "The solution holds the memory of the rememedy" and "could release immaterial and spiritual powers, thereby making substances more active".

 

Bollocks.

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I don't know how much you know about homeopathy JLF, but it's just water in a bottle. The solution is diluted so many times that there is no trace of the minute remedy that was used in the first place. "The solution holds the memory of the rememedy" and "could release immaterial and spiritual powers, thereby making substances more active".

 

Bollocks.

 

Just to be clear – I am vaccinations good, homeopathy bad. Any possessiveness towards this Jury Team candidate was meant with a huge slice of sarcasm.

 

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The mind is a very powerful driving force, yet it is also very easily influenced. A simple example would be a parents ability to kiss a pain away in their child. The child knows no different, yet is persuaded to believe a kiss will soothe their bumped head, and accepts that the pain has indeed gone after the kiss.

The 'Placebo Effect' is well documented as having the same outcome - though both of these depend on the state of the mind beforehand. The child is already aware that pain hurts, yet doesn't know for how long, and the patient taking the placebo is not aware of how long the body's natural healing ability and endorphins take to kick in, so both may accept that the alternative therapy has worked when pain disappears.

The dangerous route to travel though, is believing that herbal remedies, homeopathy, acupuncture etc can cure any amount of illness. They most certainly can't, they can only serve to bolster a persons mind who already has a belief that alternative medicine works.

Pharmaceuticals are the only tried, tested and proven methods of curing.

 

As for the original topic, I remember speaking to some people in a small village called Baoji in central China back in 1993, and I asked why many of the villagers still wore the blue suits and carried the little red Mao books. I was told that these people were still afraid that government bodies would single them out as rebellious activists and they would 'disappear' if they did not appear to be pro-communist.

I asked the same question in a market place near Beijing zoo and was told that the few people still wearing the blue suits were showing their support for the old regime. It became clear from further conversation that the authorities were doing their best to intimidate small groups (i.e villages), yet had started to lose control of the larger proportion of the population.

To this day, the authorities attempt to stifle any political debate or rally, and continue to intimidate smaller communities into backing the old regime, whilst trying to appear (For the sake of their international trade economy) as though they have adopted the free democracy that the 'G' summits expect.

 

Sunday afternoons are fantastic in Tiananmen Square. Hundreds of kites are being flown in what appears to be wonderful family gatherings. Though if you speak to some people, they will tell you that their kite represents a loved one who disappeared at that very spot 20 years ago, never to be seen again.

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UKIP are just the BNP dressed as a pantomime horse.

The BNP are more like the nasty brother of the Greens if you read their policies. I don’t doubt that UKIP indulge in some, “whistle blowing,” to attract borderline racist voters but I don’t believe it’s anything to do with the core of their raison d’etre. I would like to see the UK withdraw unilaterally from the EU, not for any nationalist reasons, but because there isn’t a single activity it carries out that needs in any way to be done by any level of government anywhere. I don’t see a logical next step being for me to call for compulsory repatriation or sending kids to a fascist branch of the Scouts.

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The BNP are more like the nasty brother of the Greens if you read their policies. I don’t doubt that UKIP indulge in some, “whistle blowing,” to attract borderline racist voters but I don’t believe it’s anything to do with the core of their raison d’etre. I would like to see the UK withdraw unilaterally from the EU, not for any nationalist reasons, but because there isn’t a single activity it carries out that needs in any way to be done by any level of government anywhere. I don’t see a logical next step being for me to call for compulsory repatriation or sending kids to a fascist branch of the Scouts.

 

Hmmm so you don’t think that there is one single good point about the EU or being part of it?

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As in the model bird?

Yes. She has a child which "developed Autism as a result of his vaccination" (bollocks) and which has "since been cured" by alternative madicine (deliberate sp).

 

She, as Matt says, has a website dedicated to how many children she has killed though her ludicrous claims (she is now being supported by Oprah which could exponentially increase this figure due to the massive exposure she will get).

 

The guardian example I've given below has an excellent article about herd immunity. The writers child has been seriously ill because the herd immunity effect has been diminished by well meaning but misinformed parents. Parents who have been deliberatly misled by quacks and nut jobs like McCarthy (and to think she was my first crush! Bitch!)

 

 

Links I'd suggest:

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/

http://whatstheharm.net/

http://www.badscienceblogs.net/

http://skepchick.org/blog/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/series/badscience

 

And to a lesser extent:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/

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Yes. She has a child which "developed Autism as a result of his vaccination" (bollocks) and which has "since been cured" by alternative madicine (deliberate sp).

 

She, as Matt says, has a website dedicated to how many children she has killed though her ludicrous claims (she is now being supported by Oprah which could exponentially increase this figure due to the massive exposure she will get).

 

The guardian example I've given below has an excellent article about herd immunity. The writers child has been seriously ill because the herd immunity effect has been diminished by well meaning but misinformed parents. Parents who have been deliberatly misled by quacks and nut jobs like McCarthy (and to think she was my first crush! Bitch!)

 

 

Links I'd suggest:

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/

http://whatstheharm.net/

http://www.badscienceblogs.net/

http://skepchick.org/blog/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/series/badscience

 

And to a lesser extent:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/

 

 

Cheers pal. I see its the MMR Jab thats shes having a go at despite their yet being no credible evidence to support her autism claims. Do you notice when they carry on about all this they never actually mention how many lives the jab saves in relation to the few who proport to get autism from it. Also, it seems also that even though Jenny thinks that her kid recovered, medical opinion actually is that her kid was misdiagnosed in first place and never had autism. On that note I read today that UK 4 out of 5 doctors want more help with diagnosing autism.

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Cheers pal. I see its the MMR Jab thats shes having a go at despite their yet being no credible evidence to support her autism claims. Do you notice when they carry on about all this they never actually mention how many lives the jab saves in relation to the few who proport to get autism from it. Also, it seems also that even though Jenny thinks that her kid recovered, medical opinion actually is that her kid was misdiagnosed in first place and never had autism. On that note I read today that UK 4 out of 5 doctors want more help with diagnosing autism.

It's an enigma of a disease and those who report on it (and I'm talking life long specialists) stil don't claim to have even a handful of answers. But one parent ranting about it (and in this case not even about it really, due, as you say, to a probable misdiagnosis) is taken as proof and reported across multiple media sources for weeks on end.

 

It's an embarrassment. I only began to read about it as a media case, not a medical one, but the two are obviously intrinsically linked and the whole thing is an embarrassment to a modern civilised society. People are being killed by diseases that were all but wiped out for two decades or more!

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Yes. She has a child which "developed Autism as a result of his vaccination" (bollocks) and which has "since been cured" by alternative madicine (deliberate sp).

 

She, as Matt says, has a website dedicated to how many children she has killed though her ludicrous claims (she is now being supported by Oprah which could exponentially increase this figure due to the massive exposure she will get).

 

The guardian example I've given below has an excellent article about herd immunity. The writers child has been seriously ill because the herd immunity effect has been diminished by well meaning but misinformed parents. Parents who have been deliberatly misled by quacks and nut jobs like McCarthy (and to think she was my first crush! Bitch!)

 

Actually the Doctor who first published something about autism and MMR was a well respected Doctor prior to the incident. He forgot to mention in his stuff that he was funded by some company with a vested interest against the MMR and that his research was flawed- a big % of children diagnosed with autism are diagnosed at 18 months- 2 years because of the nature of the disease and progression of childhood development (if a child isn't communicating and socially interacting well it is a problem - as opposed to someone being a late developer). In this country the MMR jab is given at 15 months (so just before). His sample size was 12 (or something similar). I could go on.

 

Thanks to the flawed research the doctor was struck off- his research will end up killing loads of people and I'm sorry to say someone that I fancied (not quite my first crush but close) and who aside from this has done some good work for autism has been taken in by it. She in turn has taken in Oprah but fortunately in the States vaccinations are compulsory if you want to send your child to some form of school so it won't catch on. Herd immunity is something that vaccinations need to survive as there are some people who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons (a common one being allergic to egg) but beccause of the poor uptake of vaccinations people will suffer.

 

 

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...a big % of children diagnosed with autism are diagnosed at 18 months- 2 years because of the nature of the disease and progression of childhood development if a child isn't communicating and socially interacting well it is a problem - as opposed to someone being a late developer). In this country the MMR jab is given at 15 months (so just before).

Yes, characteristically autistic behaviours are classed as normal, up to around the age of two years. If they are still around at that point, you've got something to worry about. The whole MMR thing blew up because people believed that autism was becoming more prevalent when the more likely truth is simply that diagnosis has improved drastically.

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The BNP are the only party saying anything close to what many of the British public want to hear on Immigration. Fortunately for the Etonians that run this country we have a global economic crisis and an MP expenses scandal that currently massively overshadow the immigration issue - if it were not for this I personally would expect a big BNP vote.

 

I voted Green.

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