BucksBlue Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I noted on other threads several misconceptions concerning the current BP land and the proposed new stadium. The (wrong) assumption is that the club is "giving up" BP and that "we" (the club) may end up as owners of a long term lease with the council. Firstly BP is not owned by the club. It is owned by TTA through some separate holding company. Therefore whatever money is raised from the sale of land at BP, or through any redevelopment in housing etc will be of no benefit to OAFC. it will be for the benefit of TTA or a future developer. Concerning the new stadium, it will presumably be owned by another property company (belonging to TTA individualy? or maybe this time by the club itself?) and the land will be held on a long term lease in order to facilitate the stadium investment. Either way OAFC is not really protected unless the owners of OAFC and the council each volutarily enter into a long term commitment to keep professional sport in this community. (The commitment on BP was I think only 5 years, and here we are at 6 years moving to another home). Times flies fast! The TTA have supported the club financially, for which (as a supporter) I am very grateful. But they also sought personal financial potential through the development of BP. The unforseen economic crisis has hurt those aspirations, which is no-ones fault, not least TTA. However, it is we the supporters who must seek to protect the long term interests of the club for the future. Owners will come and go. but the club has been here a hundred years. When we and the current owners move on, lose faith, sell out or simply die, then then the legacy must be there for the club to continue for future generations in the community. I would therefore ask that there is total transparency from TTA and the council concerning the lease arrangments, the commitments made and the investment strategies for the future. The last thing we want is BP sold (by TTA / for TTA) and the club is then either left stranded before the devlopment of the new stadium, or for a new stadium to be built with large debts to the club, or for a new stadium to have only a short lease between the owners of OAFC and the owners of the stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I noted on other threads several misconceptions concerning the current BP land and the proposed new stadium. The (wrong) assumption is that the club is "giving up" BP and that "we" (the club) may end up as owners of a long term lease with the council. Firstly BP is not owned by the club. It is owned by TTA through some separate holding company. Therefore whatever money is raised from the sale of land at BP, or through any redevelopment in housing etc will be of no benefit to OAFC. it will be for the benefit of TTA or a future developer. Concerning the new stadium, it will presumably be owned by another property company (belonging to TTA individualy? or maybe this time by the club itself?) and the land will be held on a long term lease in order to facilitate the stadium investment. Either way OAFC is not really protected unless the owners of OAFC and the council each volutarily enter into a long term commitment to keep professional sport in this community. (The commitment on BP was I think only 5 years, and here we are at 6 years moving to another home). Times flies fast! The TTA have supported the club financially, for which (as a supporter) I am very grateful. But they also sought personal financial potential through the development of BP. The unforseen economic crisis has hurt those aspirations, which is no-ones fault, not least TTA. However, it is we the supporters who must seek to protect the long term interests of the club for the future. Owners will come and go. but the club has been here a hundred years. When we and the current owners move on, lose faith, sell out or simply die, then then the legacy must be there for the club to continue for future generations in the community. I would therefore ask that there is total transparency from TTA and the council concerning the lease arrangments, the commitments made and the investment strategies for the future. The last thing we want is BP sold (by TTA / for TTA) and the club is then either left stranded before the devlopment of the new stadium, or for a new stadium to be built with large debts to the club, or for a new stadium to have only a short lease between the owners of OAFC and the owners of the stadium. Brilliant Post, over to TTA and the council... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I noted on other threads several misconceptions concerning the current BP land and the proposed new stadium. The (wrong) assumption is that the club is "giving up" BP and that "we" (the club) may end up as owners of a long term lease with the council. Firstly BP is not owned by the club. It is owned by TTA through some separate holding company. Therefore whatever money is raised from the sale of land at BP, or through any redevelopment in housing etc will be of no benefit to OAFC. it will be for the benefit of TTA or a future developer. Concerning the new stadium, it will presumably be owned by another property company (belonging to TTA individualy? or maybe this time by the club itself?) and the land will be held on a long term lease in order to facilitate the stadium investment. Either way OAFC is not really protected unless the owners of OAFC and the council each volutarily enter into a long term commitment to keep professional sport in this community. (The commitment on BP was I think only 5 years, and here we are at 6 years moving to another home). Times flies fast! The TTA have supported the club financially, for which (as a supporter) I am very grateful. But they also sought personal financial potential through the development of BP. The unforseen economic crisis has hurt those aspirations, which is no-ones fault, not least TTA. However, it is we the supporters who must seek to protect the long term interests of the club for the future. Owners will come and go. but the club has been here a hundred years. When we and the current owners move on, lose faith, sell out or simply die, then then the legacy must be there for the club to continue for future generations in the community. I would therefore ask that there is total transparency from TTA and the council concerning the lease arrangments, the commitments made and the investment strategies for the future. The last thing we want is BP sold (by TTA / for TTA) and the club is then either left stranded before the devlopment of the new stadium, or for a new stadium to be built with large debts to the club, or for a new stadium to have only a short lease between the owners of OAFC and the owners of the stadium. yes transparacy is a must. but as i understand it...bp will be sold to a developer or developers,in conjunction with pennine trust....and the money raised is going towards the new stadium which is costing 20 million.and not in t4a back pockets so to speak. the owners have always said they will sell when the time is right,but will put things in place so that the club continues to exist. this new development and the development on bp in the future is good for everybody,it will kick start things and hopefully put us in good stead for the future. to suggest that the owners will cut a deal and run away with the cash is somewhat bemusing to say the least. we are not dealing with chris moore. my only one little niggle....why only 12,000 capacity stadium??? hopefully it will be built so as to be able to add more seating etc when the need arises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Well said Bucksblue! Edited July 22, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) I noted on other threads several misconceptions concerning the current BP land and the proposed new stadium. The (wrong) assumption is that the club is "giving up" BP and that "we" (the club) may end up as owners of a long term lease with the council. Firstly BP is not owned by the club. It is owned by TTA through some separate holding company. Therefore whatever money is raised from the sale of land at BP, or through any redevelopment in housing etc will be of no benefit to OAFC. it will be for the benefit of TTA or a future developer. Concerning the new stadium, it will presumably be owned by another property company (belonging to TTA individualy? or maybe this time by the club itself?) and the land will be held on a long term lease in order to facilitate the stadium investment. Either way OAFC is not really protected unless the owners of OAFC and the council each volutarily enter into a long term commitment to keep professional sport in this community. (The commitment on BP was I think only 5 years, and here we are at 6 years moving to another home). Times flies fast! The TTA have supported the club financially, for which (as a supporter) I am very grateful. But they also sought personal financial potential through the development of BP. The unforseen economic crisis has hurt those aspirations, which is no-ones fault, not least TTA. However, it is we the supporters who must seek to protect the long term interests of the club for the future. Owners will come and go. but the club has been here a hundred years. When we and the current owners move on, lose faith, sell out or simply die, then then the legacy must be there for the club to continue for future generations in the community. I would therefore ask that there is total transparency from TTA and the council concerning the lease arrangments, the commitments made and the investment strategies for the future. The last thing we want is BP sold (by TTA / for TTA) and the club is then either left stranded before the devlopment of the new stadium, or for a new stadium to be built with large debts to the club, or for a new stadium to have only a short lease between the owners of OAFC and the owners of the stadium. Excellent post Bucks Its important that we know who the profits of the development go to and how they will develop in the future the ownership of the land , How this will affect the clubs revenue streams inparticularly its none footballing activities. The aspirations were for a stadium which would have facilities which would be used 365 days a year I hope this is still the case. P.S. don't know if anything has been arranged but some kind of fans forum would be a good idea round about now Edited July 22, 2009 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Brilliant Post, over to TTA and the council... Agreed. Super post. A word to the suits, this club is ours, not yours. Never lose sight of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I noted on other threads several misconceptions concerning the current BP land and the proposed new stadium. The (wrong) assumption is that the club is "giving up" BP and that "we" (the club) may end up as owners of a long term lease with the council. Firstly BP is not owned by the club. It is owned by TTA through some separate holding company. Therefore whatever money is raised from the sale of land at BP, or through any redevelopment in housing etc will be of no benefit to OAFC. it will be for the benefit of TTA or a future developer. Concerning the new stadium, it will presumably be owned by another property company (belonging to TTA individualy? or maybe this time by the club itself?) and the land will be held on a long term lease in order to facilitate the stadium investment. Either way OAFC is not really protected unless the owners of OAFC and the council each volutarily enter into a long term commitment to keep professional sport in this community. (The commitment on BP was I think only 5 years, and here we are at 6 years moving to another home). Times flies fast! The TTA have supported the club financially, for which (as a supporter) I am very grateful. But they also sought personal financial potential through the development of BP. The unforseen economic crisis has hurt those aspirations, which is no-ones fault, not least TTA. However, it is we the supporters who must seek to protect the long term interests of the club for the future. Owners will come and go. but the club has been here a hundred years. When we and the current owners move on, lose faith, sell out or simply die, then then the legacy must be there for the club to continue for future generations in the community. I would therefore ask that there is total transparency from TTA and the council concerning the lease arrangments, the commitments made and the investment strategies for the future. The last thing we want is BP sold (by TTA / for TTA) and the club is then either left stranded before the devlopment of the new stadium, or for a new stadium to be built with large debts to the club, or for a new stadium to have only a short lease between the owners of OAFC and the owners of the stadium. Excellent post that raises some valid points. As I said elsewhere, we are still in early days of the project and a lot more flesh needs to be added to the bones. I'm sure taht we will get more information from the club in the next few days and weeks.. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafc88 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Excellent post Bucks Its important that we know who the profits of the development go to and how they will develop in the future the ownership of the land , How this will affect the clubs revenue streams inparticularly its none footballing activities. The aspirations were for a stadium which would have facilities which would be used 365 days a year I hope this is still the case. P.S. don't know if anything has been arranged but some kind of fans forum would be a good idea round about now One of the best suggestions all day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucksBlue Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 yes transparacy is a must. but as i understand it...bp will be sold to a developer or developers,in conjunction with pennine trust....and the money raised is going towards the new stadium which is costing 20 million.and not in t4a back pockets so to speak. the owners have always said they will sell when the time is right,but will put things in place so that the club continues to exist. this new development and the development on bp in the future is good for everybody,it will kick start things and hopefully put us in good stead for the future. to suggest that the owners will cut a deal and run away with the cash is somewhat bemusing to say the least. we are not dealing with chris moore. my only one little niggle....why only 12,000 capacity stadium??? hopefully it will be built so as to be able to add more seating etc when the need arises. Ed - you make my exact point ... but in reverse! ..... you say "bp will be sold to a developer in conjunction with" ... but the point to make is that the owner of the land at BP is NOT OAFC. It is TTA (or their holding company) in a private capacity. So any revenue from the sale or development of BP will NOT go to OAFC (unless TTA volunteer to give the proceeds to the club). It is like saying I will rent you a flat to live in, and, by the way, when I eventually sell the flat, I will also give you the sales proceeds". It isn't going to happen! TTA made two commercial decisions when they bought into OAFC. (1) they bought the club. They knew it was losing money and decided to invest because they wanted to fulfil their dreams of ownership of an FA club. (2) they did a separate personal and private deal with Oldham Council to buy back BP. They did this because they saw potential financial gain in the development of the land. This potential didn't materialize because of the economic crisis. So now the club wants to build a £20M stadium, with negative income streams. And no asset base (BP) to trade. So who pays for it all?? I have no "axe to grind" with TTA. Without their support, we would not even be discussing these matters. But the fact is that we are here, and OAFC is still there for all the community. And at this time of major evolution, the current supporters and the community deserve total transparency so we can see the commitments made today on behalf of future generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelaticsfan Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I noted on other threads several misconceptions concerning the current BP land and the proposed new stadium. The (wrong) assumption is that the club is "giving up" BP and that "we" (the club) may end up as owners of a long term lease with the council. Firstly BP is not owned by the club. It is owned by TTA through some separate holding company. Therefore whatever money is raised from the sale of land at BP, or through any redevelopment in housing etc will be of no benefit to OAFC. it will be for the benefit of TTA or a future developer. Concerning the new stadium, it will presumably be owned by another property company (belonging to TTA individualy? or maybe this time by the club itself?) and the land will be held on a long term lease in order to facilitate the stadium investment. Either way OAFC is not really protected unless the owners of OAFC and the council each volutarily enter into a long term commitment to keep professional sport in this community. (The commitment on BP was I think only 5 years, and here we are at 6 years moving to another home). Times flies fast! The TTA have supported the club financially, for which (as a supporter) I am very grateful. But they also sought personal financial potential through the development of BP. The unforseen economic crisis has hurt those aspirations, which is no-ones fault, not least TTA. However, it is we the supporters who must seek to protect the long term interests of the club for the future. Owners will come and go. but the club has been here a hundred years. When we and the current owners move on, lose faith, sell out or simply die, then then the legacy must be there for the club to continue for future generations in the community. I would therefore ask that there is total transparency from TTA and the council concerning the lease arrangments, the commitments made and the investment strategies for the future. The last thing we want is BP sold (by TTA / for TTA) and the club is then either left stranded before the devlopment of the new stadium, or for a new stadium to be built with large debts to the club, or for a new stadium to have only a short lease between the owners of OAFC and the owners of the stadium. excellent post, maybe take this up with the club or alan hardy? or even get barry owen to raise this point on behalf of the fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUNGFOO Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 http://www.cncgrealestate.com/team.html i thought cncg was somthing else thay owned not real estate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martjs Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 http://www.cncgrealestate.com/team.html i thought cncg was somthing else thay owned not real estate? Yes, CNCG is a mobile phones supplier http://www.cncg.com/index.php But someone mentioned on here that they were diversifying into real estate now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Yes, CNCG is a mobile phones supplier http://www.cncg.com/index.php But someone mentioned on here that they were diversifying into real estate now... Nasty website! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I noted on other threads several misconceptions concerning the current BP land and the proposed new stadium. The (wrong) assumption is that the club is "giving up" BP and that "we" (the club) may end up as owners of a long term lease with the council. Firstly BP is not owned by the club. It is owned by TTA through some separate holding company. Therefore whatever money is raised from the sale of land at BP, or through any redevelopment in housing etc will be of no benefit to OAFC. it will be for the benefit of TTA or a future developer. Concerning the new stadium, it will presumably be owned by another property company (belonging to TTA individualy? or maybe this time by the club itself?) and the land will be held on a long term lease in order to facilitate the stadium investment. Either way OAFC is not really protected unless the owners of OAFC and the council each volutarily enter into a long term commitment to keep professional sport in this community. (The commitment on BP was I think only 5 years, and here we are at 6 years moving to another home). Times flies fast! The TTA have supported the club financially, for which (as a supporter) I am very grateful. But they also sought personal financial potential through the development of BP. The unforseen economic crisis has hurt those aspirations, which is no-ones fault, not least TTA. However, it is we the supporters who must seek to protect the long term interests of the club for the future. Owners will come and go. but the club has been here a hundred years. When we and the current owners move on, lose faith, sell out or simply die, then then the legacy must be there for the club to continue for future generations in the community. I would therefore ask that there is total transparency from TTA and the council concerning the lease arrangments, the commitments made and the investment strategies for the future. The last thing we want is BP sold (by TTA / for TTA) and the club is then either left stranded before the devlopment of the new stadium, or for a new stadium to be built with large debts to the club, or for a new stadium to have only a short lease between the owners of OAFC and the owners of the stadium. Excellent post...I want a little bit more than the emotional blackmail (as it sounded) of "OAFC is dying" from Corney before I'm satisfied that we won't become another Oldham Bears story. I've got faith that TTA plan to leave us one day in a good shape but the more I read stuff lately the more I think...it's very strange how "OAFC is dying" wasn't the strapline not so long ago when redevelopment was still very very high on the agenda (even after the change in economic climate). A powerful and very very emotional comment to make...from someone who has slated OMBC for months on end at their stifling of our intent...yet now, happy to jump straight into bed with them. Will see how things play out...with a very watchful eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Good post Bucks, this is what I was on the tip of when posting in that messy thread this afternoon. I went along the less well thought out line of "TTA are set to make a butty". We can't really get any further until something is submitted for planning. Fingers crossed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelaticsfan Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Nasty website! agree, the real estate one is pretty dandy though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucksBlue Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 excellent post, maybe take this up with the club or alan hardy? or even get barry owen to raise this point on behalf of the fans I agree. As fans, we are NOT investors or stake holders in the future ground lease arrangements, but as suppoters of the club we DO have a vested interest to see the future of the club is protected. I think that transparency and the flow of information is EXACTLY what Mr Owen should be focusing upon in his role between the club and the supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Excellent post...I want a little bit more than the emotional blackmail (as it sounded) of "OAFC is dying" from Corney before I'm satisfied that we won't become another Oldham Bears story. I've got faith that TTA plan to leave us one day in a good shape but the more I read stuff lately the more I think...it's very strange how "OAFC is dying" wasn't the strapline not so long ago when redevelopment was still very very high on the agenda (even after the change in economic climate). A powerful and very very emotional comment to make...from someone who has slated OMBC for months on end at their stifling of our intent...yet now, happy to jump straight into bed with them. Will see how things play out...with a very watchful eye. The credit for the change of heart is given to the Council's new leadership in the form of Charlie Parker, Chief Executive. However I share your caution and applaud BucksBlue's assessment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Interesting indeed Bluebuck. Smells a little bit still unsure if all this was going on for the past few weeks what all the groundshare stuff was about; unless Failsworth Dyanmo are the other groundsharing club Not sure Rochdale would ever have been happy about shifting to Failsworth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 what concerns me is that i thought the hotel and flat rents etcetera, were to make the club self sufficent. if they dont now exist, then how will self sufficency be achieved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) what concerns me is that i thought the hotel and flat rents etcetera, were to make the club self sufficent. if they dont now exist, then how will self sufficency be achieved? This was my concern... Reported in the Chron that we will be building: two extra pitches Soccerdome with ten 5-a-side pitches sport injury clinic conference facilities Is that enough ? Debatable.... Edited July 23, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ste1987 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 This was my concern... Reported in the Chron that we will be building: two extra pitches Soccerdome with ten 5-a-side pitches sport injury clinic conference facilities Is that enough ? Debatable.... More than what we have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 More than what we have now. .....well yes...but whats your point... Is it enough / more than the Hotel / Offices / Gym and Conference facilities originally proposed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 to suggest that the owners will cut a deal and run away with the cash is somewhat bemusing to say the least. we are not dealing with chris moore. You're right we're not - but if I remember rightly Moore turned from hero to villain very quickly. With all the work and effort the TTA have put in I think we can safely say it's a completely different scenario. Even so, the fans deserve to have a look at the long-term plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticmad Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) The TTA are not stupid they knew what they were doing since the off. bought the area wich the ground is on lest say its worth 50 mill with houses built on etc. there going to pay 20 mill to build our new stadium plus however much BAE want for the grounds say 5 mill. theyll still walk out with a huge wedge in there back pockets. maybe its just me but thats the way i see it. unless they are building the houses and flats and we OAFC get the rents i dont know but i still think theyll get a lot of money out of this deal. Edited July 23, 2009 by laticmad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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