Guest sheridans_world Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 It's gotta be mentioned. However, I find tremendous irony in the fact that "united against fascism" is trying to censor opinion. Very funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I'm all for him appearing, because hopefully in front of an intelligent audience and skilful panel he'll end up humiliating himself. And I've always believed that the best way to defeat the BNP is to give them a platform and a long enough piece of rope... I'm also all for the demonstrations, just to remind people what utter, vile, racist scum he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 It'd be good if Tony Benn was on the panel too. Or even Nigel Benn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Or maybe John Prescott ... (Anyone but the clueless wet blanket that is Jack Straw.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebOAFC Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I'm looking forward to this - my only concern is that the panel with him might not be strong enough to show him up for the odious scumbag he actually is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I think Baroness Warsi and Bonnie Greer will be more than strong enough to cope with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Its going to be interesting, its been in my diary since I heard he was on the show. I agree with garcon, enough rope etc. I dont agree with the demonstrations because they are not demonstrating because he is a fascist pig, they are demonstrating to stop him having his say because he is a fascist pig. There is a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Its going to be interesting, its been in my diary since I heard he was on the show. I agree with garcon, enough rope etc. I dont agree with the demonstrations because they are not demonstrating because he is a fascist pig, they are demonstrating to stop him having his say because he is a fascist pig. There is a difference. Very true. The arguement against his policy (or delusions) hs now been totally ignored due to the arguement against the big bad racist man appearing on TV. The problem is that if by some way or form he doesnt prove himself to be a total nobjockey to the average layman, there will be a hell of a lot of sypathy for him (if not his cause) If he essentially shuts up about his beliefs and tows a reasonably acceptable line (a big ask... but possible) there will be a lt of people willing to listen to him again, when of course he will turn up the volume. For me, that wouldnt be the BBC's fault for creating the initial platform, but the protestors fault for giving it so much attention. If he would have got no publicity, he would have probably had to say something hiddeous to get peoples attention. Now he doesnt need to, the hype has already multiplied the audience figures sufficiently that he could just smile, refuse to answer any questions and still gain voters. Should be interesting though. I'm hoping for a fight in the 'carefully selected' audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Apparently he gets an absolute pasting, and Jack Straw gets in a nice verbal jab at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Very true. The arguement against his policy (or delusions) hs now been totally ignored due to the arguement against the big bad racist man appearing on TV. The problem is that if by some way or form he doesnt prove himself to be a total nobjockey to the average layman, there will be a hell of a lot of sypathy for him (if not his cause) If he essentially shuts up about his beliefs and tows a reasonably acceptable line (a big ask... but possible) there will be a lt of people willing to listen to him again, when of course he will turn up the volume. For me, that wouldnt be the BBC's fault for creating the initial platform, but the protestors fault for giving it so much attention. If he would have got no publicity, he would have probably had to say something hiddeous to get peoples attention. Now he doesnt need to, the hype has already multiplied the audience figures sufficiently that he could just smile, refuse to answer any questions and still gain voters. Should be interesting though. I'm hoping for a fight in the 'carefully selected' audience. If they hadnt have caused a fuss, it wouldnt have been advertised over the 24 hour news channel and six pm news bulletins. The protesters are effectively their own worst enemies. Re: Bit in bold. The thing is though, he stated in 1997 that he was racist and harboured a load of other extremist views (including denying the holocaust). Since then, whether people like it or not, he has brought the BNP into a more main-stream train of thought. He's a very clever bloke, he's picking up on people's fears and running with that while keeping his extremist views on the back-burner. The scariest thing of all is, if (though it'll never happen) we had a BNP government, all of this stuff that the BNP now call taboo in the public eye would come out and go down as gospel. They are very dangerous people. A leopard never changes its spots. Its funny because we elect MP's now and people say "they never do what they said they did". Christ, if BNP got into power, then you'd know the difference. Apparently he gets an absolute pasting, and Jack Straw gets in a nice verbal jab at him. Good, I'm surprised the panel was strong enough. There could have been some bigger hitters on display... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Of course NG has said some nasty stuff in his time. But so have people like Amjem Choudary, Omar Bakri Mohammed, the Finsbury Park lot and countless other Muslim Fascists - why do the lefties not stand up to that lot as well ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Of course NG has said some nasty stuff in his time. But so have people like Amjem Choudary, Omar Bakri Mohammed, the Finsbury Park lot and countless other Muslim Fascists - why do the lefties not stand up to that lot as well ? This is something I entirely agree with, I'm all for anti-racism but racism can go both ways (for the whites, and for the non-whites) and I do think far too little is made of the racism made by those who aren't white caucasian (or on their behalf- positive discrimination is a racist policy and while I can see its merits there are some professions where white people need to be positively discriminated for). Nick Griffin is an onerous, one-eyed small, toad but just because I don't like a lot of his politics doesn't mean to say that I won't defend his right to have those political views. So if the anti-facist league or whoever it is protesting against him want to protest against him then do so but don't protest against facism by adopting a totalitarian view- i.e. your political views are too extreme to be heard (if his politics was that extreme I doubt he would be Nick Griffin MEP) and I don't agree with them therefore they shouldn't be heard. Jack Straw is a bright man who I have a bit of time for (unlike almost all other politicans) and I would much rather it was him against Nick Griffin than some of his 'Labour' colleagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Of course NG has said some nasty stuff in his time. But so have people like Amjem Choudary, Omar Bakri Mohammed, the Finsbury Park lot and countless other Muslim Fascists - why do the lefties not stand up to that lot as well ? So deporting and/or jailing Muslim extremists for inciting violence and racial/religious hatred doesn't count as "standing up to them" then? Stop playing the poor white victim and open your eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 So deporting and/or jailing Muslim extremists for inciting violence and racial/religious hatred doesn't count as "standing up to them" then? Stop playing the poor white victim and open your eyes. I'm sorry but I have to agree. If I were to go to an islamic state, I would be a second-class citizen, as would any white person or anyone of a different faith. Just because it isnt as predominant in this country doesnt mean that it doesnt exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 So deporting and/or jailing Muslim extremists for inciting violence and racial/religious hatred doesn't count as "standing up to them" then? Stop playing the poor white victim and open your eyes. Stop playing the poor white victim ?? What are you on about ? I'm talking about the lefties thinking it's ok to protest again NG etc (fine by me), but never ever protesting against Anjem Choudary and the like..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I wasn't sure who you meant by the "lefties". The Anti Fascist League? Or the whole establishment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Griffin's getting special treatment because his party are more noticeable and, right now, because the BBC are giving him airtime. If there was an extremist party representing any other offensive political movement with the same profile, or being included in Question Time, then I'd hope they'd be subjected to the same opprobrium. Griffin's not getting unfairly treated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) I wasn't sure who you meant by the "lefties". The Anti Fascist League? Or the whole establishment? Fair enough. It could quite easily apply to both, in my opinion too. I meant the UAF and such. Edited October 22, 2009 by Yard Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) Griffin's getting special treatment because his party are more noticeable and, right now, because the BBC are giving him airtime. If there was an extremist party representing any other offensive political movement with the same profile, or being included in Question Time, then I'd hope they'd be subjected to the same opprobrium. Griffin's not getting unfairly treated. Totally understand and accept. Just cannot see why UAF have to stop at the white fascists....another topic, I know - but there is some relevance. Edited October 22, 2009 by Yard Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) UAF and ANL (Anti Nazi League) do have very fixed (and limited) agendas. And I'm not sure whether they would (or should) count Muslim extremism as fascism. As far as I'm concerned they (the Muslim extremists) are as bad as Griffin ... but the authorities are certainly not afraid to deal with them, as various jailings and deportations (and bans from entry) have shown. Inciting racial and religious hatred is just as bad whichever side it comes from. Edited October 22, 2009 by garcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Looks like it might be entertaining just seen the opening scene and there does appear to be a lot of very clever looking non-white people amongst the audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJBlue Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 They are having a lot of pot shots at him but nothing that would really 'give him enough rope'. Think some people in that audience are there to say look at me i'm on morally upright. I think they needed a stronger panel that could really lay into him and discredit him and party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Exactly, BJBlue, couldn't agree more. I just tried to watch five minutes - and the smugness of some of the audience just wound me up. There was precious little skewering of Griffin in the section I saw and a lot of people looking very pleased with themselves at getting a jab in. If all the programme was ever going to be was a "poke the Nazi" circus then what exactly was the purpose? It just gives him the chance to bleat about a liberal conspiracy and a chance for the audience to go home with a warm glow of righteousness. The more I watched the more it struck me as just a programme made for people who already had no intention of voting for the BNP to feel good about their decision - not wrong, just pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Exactly, BJBlue, couldn't agree more. I just tried to watch five minutes - and the smugness of some of the audience just wound me up. There was precious little skewering of Griffin in the section I saw and a lot of people looking very pleased with themselves at getting a jab in. If all the programme was ever going to be was a "poke the Nazi" circus then what exactly was the purpose? It just gives him the chance to bleat about a liberal conspiracy and a chance for the audience to go home with a warm glow of righteousness. The more I watched the more it struck me as just a programme made for people who already had no intention of voting for the BNP to feel good about their decision - not wrong, just pointless. I think they showed how hypocrytical a lot of his ideologies are and if you were following the BNP out of ignorance before and through believeing some of the many lies the party bases itself on, I believe many will be thinking long and hard about their support of the party. He got ripped to shreds in parts, what an oaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJBlue Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 It's nearly over now and pointless is probably the best word for it. The debate was quite shallow and at times the panel members were so busy scrambling over each other to have a dig the topic was lost in squabbling. Also it's interesting that the conservative lady hinted at the fact that she doesn't support gay marriage (civil partnerships) and not much was said because she managed to back track but when Griffin said he didn't like it he was heckled by the audience which just furthers the point about the majority of people there just wanting to have a go at Griffin so they can feel good about themselves. Its been like panto at times. Much like it was when the mp expenses scandal broke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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