oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Indeed you do. However, if all you've got is baseless ad hominem attacks then you lose this argument. Go cower under a bush somewhere. There are those of us who are prepard to stand up to bullies. (you know, the ones you claim don't exist) Don't worry mate, I see bullies like you all the time... Creating fear out of nothing to sell your own dogma... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 You putting up a reasoned argument against religion is your right to freedom of speech... No one would seek to take that away from you... His attempt at setting out to cause nothing but offence to millions of people in some lame attempt at saying are right to freedom of speech seems to me to be highly questionable... Get in bed with him if you want Ackey... The freedom of speech is not and never was intended to be a platform to seek to cause offence... If you opinion results in offence that is one thing... But to seek it from the outset says a lot... You start to get into the relm of other laws regarding religious hatred, libel and such like... You're right, and whilst I don't know the OP and couldn't comment on his politics (I think most know by now I'm about as soft as you can get on the subject of immigration and cultural origins) I still object to the point. You, rightly, point out that it's deplorable to consciously set out to offend people. If this as a "lets call all disabled people 'retards' day" then I too would object. However this returns to the point I made - which is that the only reason people have to find an illustration of this nature offensive is a belief in a book(s) that's thousands of years old and depicts a prophet's abilities far beyond what can be scientifically proven. It relies on a deity which has no foundation in a scientific world. It's frankly ludicrous to still believe in this kind of thing in a modern world. However, as a result of this foundation it's deemed offensive to depict Muhammed in any form and I have no quarrels with showing this belief up for what it is - ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I'm not intimidated - but being a civilised kinda guy, I won't be drawing Mohamed any more than I will be asserting my freedom of expression by telling holocaust jokes and the like. It's all about mutual respect. You earn it by giving it. That's the first post you've ever made that I entirely agree with. I shall drink to that tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 You putting up a reasoned argument against religion is your right to freedom of speech... No one would seek to take that away from you... His attempt at setting out to cause nothing but offence to millions of people in some lame attempt at saying are right to freedom of speech seems to me to be highly questionable... Get in bed with him if you want Ackey... The freedom of speech is not and never was intended to be a platform to seek to cause offence... If you opinion results in offence that is one thing... But to seek it from the outset says a lot... You start to get into the relm of other laws regarding religious hatred, libel and such like... OMG. For the last time. This is NOT about causing offence. Its about not being silenced by intimidation. If you can't get that, you're beyond hope. Maybe you like to be controlled. I don't. If someone comes up to you and says "if I see you eating cheese, that is offensive to me and I will slit your throat" what do you do about it oafc0000? By the way, noone has the right not to be offended. That you think otherwise, speaks volumes about how important civil liberties are to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 It's frankly ludicrous to still believe in this kind of thing in a modern world. That is your view... And other people share another view... What is the better approach... Live and let live ? or seek and destroy ? Because that is the very thing the OP was saying was wrong.... Pushing your opinion upon others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) OMG. For the last time. This is NOT about causing offence. Its about not being silenced by intimidation. If you can't get that, you're beyond hope. Maybe you like to be controlled. I don't. So in your normal day to day life you find yourself needing to draw Muhammad ? If someone comes up to you and says "if I see you eating cheese, that is offensive to me and I will slit your throat" what do you do about it oafc0000? Phone the police and run the other way as quick as I can! By the way, noone has the right not to be offended. That you think otherwise, speaks volumes about how important civil liberties are to you. Offend away... but don't try to cover it up by saying I am fighting the battle for the freedom of speech, as if to give it some sort of moral rightness ... You are just being a cock and looking to offend someone... Edited May 20, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 Don't worry mate, I see bullies like you all the time... Creating fear out of nothing to sell your own dogma... Fear out of nothing? Get your head out the hand and do some research. I've already given you examples to google. And what's my dogma, Einstein? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) Fear out of nothing? Get your head out the hand and do some research. I've already given you examples to google. And what's my dogma, Einstein? So show me this massive attack upon the UK citizens right to freedom of speech from a couple of hundred people in pakistan burning stuff Show me why I should be so very worried Edited May 20, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 That is your view... And other people share another view... What is the better approach... Live and let live ? or seek and destroy ? Because that is the very thing the OP was saying was wrong.... Pushing your opinion upon others... But me taking the time to draw Muhammed (which, let's be honest, I'll not do) is my choice and I have a right to post that to OWTB or Facebook or wherever. I was about to say - "I don't have the right to force that drawing on others" - but then it occurred to me that most weekends there are people of one religion or another in the City proclaiming that I'm a sinner for not being Muslim/Christian/A.N. Other or JW's knocking on my door and so I've defeated my own argument. I appreciate that when the words Muslim/Islam are used they are often attached to mental-racialists and I have no association with them. They're sub human scum. But by the same token I am tired of living in a world where it's acceptable to enforce your beliefs in an ancient text on others without recourse because it's 'offensive' to question/oppose religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 But me taking the time to draw Muhammed (which, let's be honest, I'll not do) is my choice and I have a right to post that to OWTB or Facebook or wherever. I was about to say - "I don't have the right to force that drawing on others" - but then it occurred to me that most weekends there are people of one religion or another in the City proclaiming that I'm a sinner for not being Muslim/Christian/A.N. Other or JW's knocking on my door and so I've defeated my own argument. I appreciate that when the words Muslim/Islam are used they are often attached to mental-racialists and I have no association with them. They're sub human scum. But by the same token I am tired of living in a world where it's acceptable to enforce your beliefs in an ancient text on others without recourse because it's 'offensive' to question/oppose religion. I don't support Christians campaigning outside of abortion clinics as much as I don't support turnips drawing knowingly insulting images... But under UK laws, you can do both... Which kind of ruins the OPs idea that freedom of speech is under attack some what... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 So in your normal day to day life you find yourself needing to draw Muhammad ? No. But I will not be told by someone under violent protest that I can't. Do you get it yet? Phone the police and run the other way as quick as I can! Will it stop you eating cheese just because it offends his sensibilities or because he made a threat? Offend away... but don't try to cover it up by saying I am fighting the battle for the freedom of speech, as if to give it some sort of moral rightness ... You are just being a cock and looking to offend someone... You haven't been listening. You're so determined to show that I am supporting this cause out of spite and not standing up for the rights of myself or others. Calling me a cock only looking to cause offence, doesn't make it so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 No. But I will not be told by someone under violent protest that I can't. Do you get it yet? So you wasn't planning on offending millions, but becasue a group of people say we don't want you to offend us in x way you go out and offend them in x way to prove the laws of this country allow you to offend someone in x way. Sorry for not being won over that it is worth doing... or for suggesting you need to grow up... Will it stop you eating cheese just because it offends his sensibilities or because he made a threat? No, but hopefully the police will protect my right to cheese!! I don't like cheese anyway... I am not going to start eating it just because that lot want to stab cheese lovers! You haven't been listening. I am listening... I just reject the idea you should offend for the sake of it as being moronic and childish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 So show me this massive attack upon the UK citizens right to freedom of speech from a couple of hundred people in pakistan burning stuff Show me why I should be so very worried What makes you think this is just about the UK? This isn't about why you should be worried, this about is about standing by the people who have been killed by extremists or live their life under constant threat of violence from people who think "offence" is justification for the death penalty. It's also about protesting the people in society (muslim and non muslim alike) who sympathise with these people OR those who think saving people from being "offended" is sufficient justification for censorship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 But me taking the time to draw Muhammed (which, let's be honest, I'll not do) is my choice and I have a right to post that to OWTB or Facebook or wherever. I was about to say - "I don't have the right to force that drawing on others" - but then it occurred to me that most weekends there are people of one religion or another in the City proclaiming that I'm a sinner for not being Muslim/Christian/A.N. Other or JW's knocking on my door and so I've defeated my own argument. I appreciate that when the words Muslim/Islam are used they are often attached to mental-racialists and I have no association with them. They're sub human scum. But by the same token I am tired of living in a world where it's acceptable to enforce your beliefs in an ancient text on others without recourse because it's 'offensive' to question/oppose religion. A nice bit of Patrridge in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downender2 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 this the same mohammed who was a paedophile you really are one wet lettuce 0000... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I couldn't really care less who gets offended, I just want to see PhilStarbucksSilkySkills' drawing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) What makes you think this is just about the UK? This isn't about why you should be worried, this about is about standing by the people who have been killed by extremists or live their life under constant threat of violence from people who think "offence" is justification for the death penalty. It's also about protesting the people in society (muslim and non muslim alike) who sympathise with these people OR those who think saving people from being "offended" is sufficient justification for censorship. It is the idea that you now go out of your way to offend these people that I am saying is childish.... Who is sympathising with these people anyway ?... Who are you accusing ? I think most muslims agree that it causes offence... Most around the world would not support any violent action being taken expect maybe a few hard line muslim states (how much of a threat are they to us lot?)... I reckon the VAST VAST majority in the UK would not take violent action... So who is your protest aimed at... Edited May 20, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 you really are one wet lettuce 0000... I've been called worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Speaking of violent protest http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00sh...tish_and_Angry/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 Ok, I'm done with this topic unless anyone else has something constructive to say. As far as OAFC0000 goes, he just seems intent on calling me names and asserting over and over again that I (and assumedly the millions around the world who are supporting this day) are being being offensive for the sake of it. This he asserts in spite of my constant refutations. I've got more important things to worry about than one man's lack of logic and reasoning skills. Some people are so hopelessly convinced that no argument can sway them. It's up to you folks, draw a cartoon of a long dead pedophile or don't. We live in a free world (for the most part). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 A nice bit of Patrridge in there. Not many have the skill to get Partridge into a free-speech/Religion/Atheism/Racism debate. I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Ok, I'm done with this topic unless anyone else has something constructive to say. As far as OAFC0000 goes, he just seems intent on calling me names and asserting over and over again that I (and assumedly the millions around the world who are supporting this day) are being being offensive for the sake of it. This he asserts in spite of my constant refutations. I've got more important things to worry about than one man's lack of logic and reasoning skills. Some people are so hopelessly convinced that no argument can sway them. It's up to you folks, draw a cartoon of a long dead pedophile or don't. We live in a free world (for the most part). Sorry for holding up a mirror.... Have a nice day... PEACE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downender2 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Ok, I'm done with this topic unless anyone else has something constructive to say. As far as OAFC0000 goes, he just seems intent on calling me names and asserting over and over again that I (and assumedly the millions around the world who are supporting this day) are being being offensive for the sake of it. This he asserts in spite of my constant refutations. I've got more important things to worry about than one man's lack of logic and reasoning skills. Some people are so hopelessly convinced that no argument can sway them. It's up to you folks, draw a cartoon of a long dead pedophile or don't. We live in a free world (for the most part). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 Who is sympathising with these people anyway ?... Who are you accusing ? Look in the mirror. There's one of "those people" right there. You know, the pacifist, politically correct, turn the other cheek type that seek to pacify the minority by restricting the freedoms of the rest of us. There's all too many of you in political power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) Look in the mirror. There's one of "those people" right there. You know, the pacifist, politically correct, turn the other cheek type that seek to pacify the minority by restricting the freedoms of the rest of us. There's all too many of you in political power. Guilty as charged!! Besides the restricting of freedoms.. You are free in this country to a large extent and long may it continue... Edited May 20, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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