IF Failsworth doesn't happen...

[HarryBosch]

...is sticking a big new 6000 seat Main Stand where the Lookers was a possibility or not?

 

 

[oafcprozac]

...is sticking a big new 6000 seat Main Stand where the Lookers was a possibility or not?

 

No, there's a a definite probability of BP being bulldozed...

[HarryBosch]

Would it be if we went up this season?

[davemathieson]

No, there's a a definite probability of BP being bulldozed...

 

Eh?

[oafc0000]

unless you can find money to buy the land and fund the development... no, I don't believe it is...

[OldhamSheridan]

I'd guess when Failsworth doesn't happen we will be back to Boundary Park with it falling down around our ears until the covenant runs out. Then it will be knocked down so that the houses around it gain maximum value, and more building can be carried out on the site.

 

Where we go then is just guesswork. Spotland? FCMU? My guess is we'll just fold.

[Takemeanywhere]

My personal opinion is that the only way we could stay at Boundary Park long-term is if somebody came in with enough money to buy Blitz out completely. As long as the land is owned by Brassbank, we are on a countdown to leaving, to either Failsworth or a ground share. Just my view and not necessarily the view of the Trust.

[oafc0000]

I'd guess when Failsworth doesn't happen we will be back to Boundary Park with it falling down around our ears until the covenant runs out. Then it will be knocked down so that the houses around it gain maximum value, and more building can be carried out on the site.

 

Where we go then is just guesswork. Spotland? FCMU? My guess is we'll just fold.

 

I think what happens then depends on the debts run up today...

[mattsgrandad]

I'd guess when Failsworth doesn't happen we will be back to Boundary Park with it falling down around our ears until the covenant runs out. Then it will be knocked down so that the houses around it gain maximum value, and more building can be carried out on the site.

 

Where we go then is just guesswork. Spotland? FCMU? My guess is we'll just fold.

 

For what it's worth, my guess is that nothing will happen with Failsworth unless a new investor comes in who is willing to fund the ground development and ongoing losses until then (5 million quid?).

If that didn't happen, we'll stumble on to 2014 and then the council will negotiate the land buy-back with the present owners (Blitz & Co) and we're back to the pre-TTA days. After that ....????

[garcon]

Eh?

He means it's definitely probable, rather than probably definite.

 

[Steve_R]

I asked the question a couple of times to Barry Owen on another thread but he hasn’t answered it yet.

 

That is ‘Who is going to fund the new stadium? The original idea was that it is to be funded from the sale of BP, but the people who own BP have done one, so are they really likely to build a stadium for a club they have ‘severed all ties with?’

 

And if they’re not, then who the hell is?

 

[mattsgrandad]

I asked the question a couple of times to Barry Owen on another thread but he hasn’t answered it yet.

 

That is ‘Who is going to fund the new stadium? The original idea was that it is to be funded from the sale of BP, but the people who own BP have done one, so are they really likely to build a stadium for a club they have ‘severed all ties with?’

 

And if they’re not, then who the hell is?

 

Rumour has it that it's the accountancy firm 'Faith, Hope & Charity' specialists in administration.

[oafc0000]

I asked the question a couple of times to Barry Owen on another thread but he hasn’t answered it yet.

 

That is ‘Who is going to fund the new stadium? The original idea was that it is to be funded from the sale of BP, but the people who own BP have done one, so are they really likely to build a stadium for a club they have ‘severed all ties with?’

 

And if they’re not, then who the hell is?

 

To be quite honest that was a question that I was asking when Failsworth was originally being suggested and has never been fully answered...

[Lookers_Carl]

My personal opinion is that the only way we could stay at Boundary Park long-term is if somebody came in with enough money to buy Blitz out completely. As long as the land is owned by Brassbank, we are on a countdown to leaving, to either Failsworth or a ground share. Just my view and not necessarily the view of the Trust.

 

Which is the only way OAFC will change ownership. Nobody is going to touch Oldham Athletic (2004) AFC on its own. The club would have to come with the land at Failsworth at the very least in order to make it an attractive investment to anyone.

[garcon]

The club's owners haven't, as yet, "done one". They've stopped propping up the club with monthly cash injections of 5 figures or more, but they still own the club and the BP site.

 

This next bit is purely my speculation based on some very rudimentary calculations.

 

If we get the planning go ahead to develop on the Failsworth site and some outside commercial investment, then the way I see it Blitz and Gazaal have a better chance of getting more of their money back by allowing the proceeds of the BP sale to be invested in that development rather than simply calling it in. Once built and moved in, they have a club and stadium to sell together as a going concern with some chance of becoming viable and self sufficient. That, potentially, will be worth quite a bit more than the pure land value of BP.

 

That seems to me to be the best case scenario, and frankly the only one that provides even the hope of a long term future, bar the imminent arrival of a new owner rich enough to buy Blitz out altogether and redevelop BP.

Edited October 7, 2010 by garcon

[Takemeanywhere]

I asked the question a couple of times to Barry Owen on another thread but he hasn’t answered it yet.

 

That is ‘Who is going to fund the new stadium? The original idea was that it is to be funded from the sale of BP, but the people who own BP have done one, so are they really likely to build a stadium for a club they have ‘severed all ties with?’

 

And if they’re not, then who the hell is?

 

Simon Blitz has resigned as a director because he could no longer afford to meet the day to day losses of the club. He is still a shareholder, whilst new investment is sought. He is also still the landlord, as a director of Brassbank. We are told that they have no intention of leaving us without a football club and we have to believe that (with some caution, granted). The plan, as I understand it is that the eventual sale of Boundary Park (the actual plot that the current ground stands on) will contribute to the cost of Failsworth. The difference will come from agreeing deals with major corporates to develop the land at Failsworth for a hotel, cinema etc.

 

 

[oafcprozac]

For what it's worth, my guess is that nothing will happen with Failsworth unless a new investor comes in who is willing to fund the ground development and ongoing losses until then (5 million quid?).

If that didn't happen, we'll stumble on to 2014 and then the council will negotiate the land buy-back with the present owners (Blitz & Co) and we're back to the pre-TTA days. After that ....????

 

Unless Brassbank allow the council to buy the land back at £1 a week, that aint gonna happen - the council are bankrupt and would surely not be able to afford a stadium purchase.

[Steve_R]

Which is the only way OAFC will change ownership. Nobody is going to touch Oldham Athletic (2004) AFC on its own. The club would have to come with the land at Failsworth at the very least in order to make it an attractive investment to anyone.

But are they interested whether it’s an attractive investment or not? As it stands they could sit tight, rake back their money by selling off BP and let those still running the club worry about its long term future.

 

Or they could sell BP, spend another £20 million on the new stadium and everything else, and still be in a position of trying to flog a football club no one may want to recoup some of their losses.

 

[mattsgrandad]

Unless Brassbank allow the council to buy the land back at £1 a week, that aint gonna happen - the council are bankrupt and would surely not be able to afford a stadium purchase.

 

The rationale behind my comment:

 

1. The existing owners (Brassbank) will want some return on their investment

2. The Council still have a role in determining the usage of BP (planning consents etc) and it's the land that has the value, not the stadium

3. (Hopefully), the Council will still be mindful of the problems created when they delayed the permissions for the BP redevelopment and recognise the importance of the football club to the town and therefore not allow the club to be kicked out.

4. (Clutching at straws here) 2014 is still a long way off and the economic situation might change

[oafcprozac]

But are they interested whether it’s an attractive investment or not? As it stands they could sit tight, rake back their money by selling off BP and let those still running the club worry about its long term future.

 

Or they could sell BP, spend another £20 million on the new stadium and everything else, and still be in a position of trying to flog a football club no one may want to recoup some of their losses.

 

Not a chance unless someone puts up the £20m, they've already been virtually given the land to build the stadium on - if its ratified, there's no way they'll spend £20m of their own money - the only way it will happen is by third party investment on the rest of the Failsworth Site - that will happen anyway but if we do not get the piece of land we need then it will be industrial units rather than retail and leisure units attached to a Football Ground.

 

Personally I don't believe everything I hear about how hard done by TTA are. Whatever the outcome they will earn off their Oldham Athletic land deal, the only group that stand to be shafted by their failure is us the fan when we're catching the 409 to Rochdale. If the land deal with the Charity Commission falls through we need to be prepared and more vociferous that we will simply not allow the 10 year clause to run out and find ourselves homeless, it has to be made clear that we will simply not settle for Failsworth or bust if Failsworth is not possible.

[Takemeanywhere]

The rationale behind my comment:

 

1. The existing owners (Brassbank) will want some return on their investment - they aint gonna get that off the council

2. The Council still have a role in determining the usage of BP (planning consents etc) and it's the land that has the value, not the stadium - and planning permission has already been granted for housing behind both the Chaddy and RRE. There is already housing on Furtherwood Road, so I don't imagine planning for houses where the ground currently stands will be much of an issue

3. (Hopefully), the Council will still be mindful of the problems created when they delayed the permissions for the BP redevelopment and recognise the importance of the football club to the town and therefore not allow the club to be kicked out - councillors with a conscience. An interesting theory

4. (Clutching at straws here) 2014 is still a long way off and the economic situation might change - yep, making thee building of housing a more viable proposition

 

I really think you're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think the council will one day own Boundary Park again.

 

[oafc0000]

Not a chance unless someone puts up the £20m, they've already been virtually given the land to build the stadium on - if its ratified, there's no way they'll spend £20m of their own money - the only way it will happen is by third party investment on the rest of the Failsworth Site - that will happen anyway but if we do not get the piece of land we need then it will be industrial units rather than retail and leisure units attached to a Football Ground.

 

Personally I don't believe everything I hear about how hard done by TTA are. Whatever the outcome they will earn off their Oldham Athletic land deal, the only group that stand to be shafted by their failure is us the fan when we're catching the 409 to Rochdale. If the land deal with the Charity Commission falls through we need to be prepared and more vociferous that we will simply not allow the 10 year clause to run out and find ourselves homeless, it has to be made clear that we will simply not settle for Failsworth or bust if Failsworth is not possible.

If I was Rochdale I wouldn't let us share... One less club to compete with in the area... Sure there are plenty of people around Royton both clubs fight over...

[Takemeanywhere]

If I was Rochdale I wouldn't let us share... One less club to compete with in the area... Sure there are plenty of people around Royton both clubs fight over...

 

Consider it the other way around. Would you let Rochdale die rather than let them come and ground share (and pay us rent)?

[oafc0000]

Consider it the other way around. Would you let Rochdale die rather than let them come and ground share (and pay us rent)?

 

Most probably... I don't care about other football club... I was hoping Portsmouth would get wound up for example...

[mattsgrandad]

I really think you're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think the council will one day own Boundary Park again.

 

 

Before we close our minds on this one, let's not forget how adept the council can be in negotiating land swaps.....

 

Finding land of an equivalent size of the existing BP ground will be easier than finding land for a new stadium and if it comes with planning permission, then I'm sure a deal will be done.