Spending Review

[mikejh45]

If ever a subject polarises opinion along loosely party lines, this is it. In the red corner (sounds like World of Sport Tag Team Wrestling contest), we have the likes of Tulsehill and oafc0000 and in the blue corner, opinions4u and leeslover. Me, I am genuinely down the middle and take the view that Alan Johnson is no more experienced in macro-economics and governmental finance than George Osborne. Both take advice from compliant think tanks and both argue black is white and vice versa to suit their position. Time for a chancellor level television debate with Osborne and Johnson and a key advisor each to take questions from a non partisan (if that's possible) audience. Result based on 2 falls, 2 submissions or a knockout.

 

By the way, does anyone think Alan Johnson was given the Shadow Chancellor's job because he was invited and accepted, a couple of months ago, to be an advisor on "social mobility" (I think) by David Cameron to the fury of several Labour elders?

[opinions4u]

I ... take the view that Alan Johnson is no more experienced in macro-economics and governmental finance than George Osborne. Both take advice from compliant think tanks and both argue black is white and vice versa to suit their position.

You have summed it up rather well.

 

I prefer to see myself as cynical rather than blue though.

[rudemedic]

If ever a subject polarises opinion along loosely party lines, this is it. In the red corner (sounds like World of Sport Tag Team Wrestling contest), we have the likes of Tulsehill and oafc0000 and in the blue corner, opinions4u and leeslover. Me, I am genuinely down the middle and take the view that Alan Johnson is no more experienced in macro-economics and governmental finance than George Osborne. Both take advice from compliant think tanks and both argue black is white and vice versa to suit their position. Time for a chancellor level television debate with Osborne and Johnson and a key advisor each to take questions from a non partisan (if that's possible) audience. Result based on 2 falls, 2 submissions or a knockout.

 

By the way, does anyone think Alan Johnson was given the Shadow Chancellor's job because he was invited and accepted, a couple of months ago, to be an advisor on "social mobility" (I think) by David Cameron to the fury of several Labour elders?

 

People were asking for ideas for half-time entertainment, there's one right there. I'll avoid the obvious digs about Tulsehill being on his own though.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

But then you couldn't quite grasp the comparison between household finances and national finances...

 

There's nothing to grasp. It's a fallacy.

 

...but maybe I can buy into this bull:censored: after all.

 

If I quit my job or get fired, I can instantly restructure myself and go technological and form partnerships and...

 

Hang on. I've got it. I can either go to the pub tonight or I can build and utilise an aircraft carr...No.

 

Wait. I can cut the amount of snacks I buy or tip a nurse on to the dole.

 

It's a fallacy.

[oafc0000]

People were asking for ideas for half-time entertainment, there's one right there. I'll avoid the obvious digs about Tulsehill being on his own though.

:lol:

 

[footy68]

There's nothing to grasp. It's a fallacy.

 

...but maybe I can buy into this bull:censored: after all.

 

If I quit my job or get fired, I can instantly restructure myself and go technological and form partnerships and...

 

Hang on. I've got it. I can either go to the pub tonight or I can build and utilise an aircraft carr...No.

Wait. I can cut the amount of snacks I buy or tip a nurse on to the dole.

 

It's a fallacy.

 

Would that be one of the ones Labour were to defer at a cost of billions?

[bigfatjoe1]

It’s the hangover after a 13 year bender, there’s no way to make it painless. Hopefully they can actually deliver on the plans, another two or three Parliaments of that and the country might actually be getting into decent shape

 

 

typical tory clap trap from the south east bubble that is full of tory crap trap. 13 year bender - total rubbish. I suppose Labour are to blame for the international crisis that has hit every country. Oh. no wait a minute, there's a clue in there.'International.' Of course, it must be difficult for any tory idot to admit that their bum chums in the City are to blame, but, well THEY ARE. Oh, then again, we should've done nothing when the INTERNATIONAL BANKING crisis kicked in. We should've followed the tory line and allowed the banks to go to the wall. But, wait a minute, then we'd be in an even bigger mess. Infact, an impossible mess. Thank you Gordon Brown for hvaing the guts to save the nation from complete meltdown.

 

people in thesouthare really clueless. They ae the little Englanders. Their arsehole friends in the City should pay for this mess, not the poor and publicsector workers.

[opinions4u]

typical tory clap trap from the south east bubble that is full of tory crap trap. 13 year bender - total rubbish. I suppose Labour are to blame for the international crisis that has hit every country. Oh. no wait a minute, there's a clue in there.'International.' Of course, it must be difficult for any tory idot to admit that their bum chums in the City are to blame, but, well THEY ARE. Oh, then again, we should've done nothing when the INTERNATIONAL BANKING crisis kicked in. We should've followed the tory line and allowed the banks to go to the wall. But, wait a minute, then we'd be in an even bigger mess. Infact, an impossible mess. Thank you Gordon Brown for hvaing the guts to save the nation from complete meltdown.

 

people in thesouthare really clueless. They ae the little Englanders. Their arsehole friends in the City should pay for this mess, not the poor and publicsector workers.

Doesn't 24HoursFromTulsehill reside in the south?

 

To generalise in such a way and then refer to southerners as "Little Englanders" is just a tad hypocritical.

Edited October 20, 2010 by opinions4u

[mikejh45]

typical tory clap trap from the south east bubble that is full of tory crap trap. 13 year bender - total rubbish. I suppose Labour are to blame for the international crisis that has hit every country. Oh. no wait a minute, there's a clue in there.'International.' Of course, it must be difficult for any tory idot to admit that their bum chums in the City are to blame, but, well THEY ARE. Oh, then again, we should've done nothing when the INTERNATIONAL BANKING crisis kicked in. We should've followed the tory line and allowed the banks to go to the wall. But, wait a minute, then we'd be in an even bigger mess. Infact, an impossible mess. Thank you Gordon Brown for hvaing the guts to save the nation from complete meltdown.

 

people in thesouthare really clueless. They ae the little Englanders. Their arsehole friends in the City should pay for this mess, not the poor and publicsector workers.

 

What planet are you from.......are you sniffing the Guardian/Mirror newsprint? Bluddy hell, you'll be telling me yer flat cap's threadbare, yer can't create sparks wi' yer clogs 'cos yer Blakey's have fallen off and yer whippet's gone lame (and yes I am taking the wotsit)!!!! Talk about North/South bollox, you've really got a problem here. You can blame the Tories for the decisions they are now making but it was Labour who were in charge that has brought to were we are now.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

typical tory clap trap from the south east bubble that is full of tory crap trap. 13 year bender - total rubbish. I suppose Labour are to blame for the international crisis that has hit every country. Oh. no wait a minute, there's a clue in there.'International.' Of course, it must be difficult for any tory idot to admit that their bum chums in the City are to blame, but, well THEY ARE. Oh, then again, we should've done nothing when the INTERNATIONAL BANKING crisis kicked in. We should've followed the tory line and allowed the banks to go to the wall. But, wait a minute, then we'd be in an even bigger mess. Infact, an impossible mess. Thank you Gordon Brown for hvaing the guts to save the nation from complete meltdown.

 

people in thesouthare really clueless. They ae the little Englanders. Their arsehole friends in the City should pay for this mess, not the poor and publicsector workers.

 

Well said that man. He's got a point y'know. The good citizens of Woking and Tunbridge Wells and Chichester won't much care about the cuts. The cuts are to the north-east, Northern Ireland, the north-west, Scotland, Wales - anywhere but Woking and Witney and Tatton and what have you. The cuts affect people about whom the Tories and Liberals give not a :censored:, not people like them, such as their pals in the City and the public schools and so on.

 

Anyone who thinks the Tories identify with them is labouring under a rather unpleasant delusion.

[mikejh45]

Well said that man. He's got a point y'know. The good citizens of Woking and Tunbridge Wells and Chichester won't much care about the cuts. The cuts are to the north-east, Northern Ireland, the north-west, Scotland, Wales - anywhere but Woking and Witney and Tatton and what have you. The cuts affect people about whom the Tories and Liberals give not a :censored:, not people like them, such as their pals in the City and the public schools and so on.

 

Anyone who thinks the Tories identify with them is labouring under a rather unpleasant delusion.

 

Oh yeah and London Boroughs like Haringey are awash with Tory champagne-swilling millionaires!!!

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

People were asking for ideas for half-time entertainment, there's one right there. I'll avoid the obvious digs about Tulsehill being on his own though.

 

Yeah, but 0000s would be cheering me on listening to Gordon's unimpeachable commentary.

[mikejh45]

Yeah, but 0000s would be cheering me on listening to Gordon's unimpeachable commentary.

 

It'a tuff call....Gordon or Kent Walton!!!

[slurms mckenzie]

What planet are you from.......are you sniffing the Guardian/Mirror newsprint? Bluddy hell, you'll be telling me yer flat cap's threadbare, yer can't create sparks wi' yer clogs 'cos yer Blakey's have fallen off and yer whippet's gone lame (and yes I am taking the wotsit)!!!! Talk about North/South bollox, you've really got a problem here. You can blame the Tories for the decisions they are now making but it was Labour who were in charge that has brought to were we are now.

 

Where is it you live then? Well done on contradicting yourself. "I'm allright Jack" has always been the attitude of the Tories. Do you seriously believe that the Tories care about what happens in the North of England?

 

In fact, the cuts have been made through ideology, not through good sense. The cheers in parliament when Osbourne (himself a multi-millionaire) announced job cut after job cut and the decimation of our services spoke volumes. The Tories have got what they have always wanted in their battle against the poor, and washed their hands of the underprivileged altogether.

 

Its the sheer incompetence though that is most frustrating; why scrap the Nimrod project; this project is 11/12 of the way through. Why scrap this now? The savings pale into insignificance when compared to the amount already spent. You can guarantee that if the jobs effected were in London or the South East, not in Oldham and Woodford, then these cuts would not have happened. Aside from the fact that my Dad will lose his job in the next few weeks.

 

Fair enough, London, the south and south east will get away pretty much free. Up here, things are a lot more difficult and we will see real civil unrest. I'm allright though Jack eh?

[rudemedic]

Well said that man. He's got a point y'know. The good citizens of Woking and Tunbridge Wells and Chichester won't much care about the cuts. The cuts are to the north-east, Northern Ireland, the north-west, Scotland, Wales - anywhere but Woking and Witney and Tatton and what have you. The cuts affect people about whom the Tories and Liberals give not a :censored:, not people like them, such as their pals in the City and the public schools and so on.

 

Anyone who thinks the Tories identify with them is labouring under a rather unpleasant delusion.

 

Mr and Mrs. Milliband will be really badly affected in Islington though won't they, not to mention the relatives of the Harmans? Yes, a decent proportion of Labour front benchers are of working class, Alan Johnson, being the most senior example but the closest a lot of Labour front-benchers get to the working class is the occassional community surgery they hold in their constituency, many of which they were parachuted into.

 

There may be an argument to say the MP most affected by the cuts will be the MP for Richmond, since it that constituency there is the largest army barracks in the country (Catterick), a decent size RAF base (RAF Leeming), if it doesn't loose getting on to 3000 jobs I'd be surprised. Now who is the MP there, oh right its William Hague a Tory.

[mikejh45]

Where is it you live then? Well done on contradicting yourself. "I'm allright Jack" has always been the attitude of the Tories. Do you seriously believe that the Tories care about what happens in the North of England? AND DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT LABOUR CARES ABOUT THE SOUTH OF ENGLAND.....what an amazing point you made there!!!

 

In fact, the cuts have been made through ideology, not through good sense. The cheers in parliament when Osbourne (himself a multi-millionaire) announced job cut after job cut and the decimation of our services spoke volumes. The Tories have got what they have always wanted in their battle against the poor, and washed their hands of the underprivileged altogether.

 

Its the sheer incompetence though that is most frustrating; why scrap the Nimrod project; this project is 11/12 of the way through. Why scrap this now? The savings pale into insignificance when compared to the amount already spent. You can guarantee that if the jobs effected were in London or the South East, not in Oldham and Woodford, then these cuts would not have happened. Aside from the fact that my Dad will lose his job in the next few weeks.

 

Fair enough, London, the south and south east will get away pretty much free. Up here, things are a lot more difficult and we will see real civil unrest. I'm allright though Jack eh?

 

Yes, I live in the South and I freelance in the construction industry and yes, I'm finding it difficult as well. But all I'm hearing is the polarised views of the left and right and quite frankly you are both as bad as each other.

Edited October 20, 2010 by mikejh45

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Mr and Mrs. Milliband will be really badly affected in Islington though won't they, not to mention the relatives of the Harmans? Yes, a decent proportion of Labour front benchers are of working class, Alan Johnson, being the most senior example but the closest a lot of Labour front-benchers get to the working class is the occassional community surgery they hold in their constituency, many of which they were parachuted into.

 

There may be an argument to say the MP most affected by the cuts will be the MP for Richmond, since it that constituency there is the largest army barracks in the country (Catterick), a decent size RAF base (RAF Leeming), if it doesn't loose getting on to 3000 jobs I'd be surprised. Now who is the MP there, oh right its William Hague a Tory.

 

Listen, Doc. We've been getting on well and I don't want no one spoiling things.

 

Here's something I've thought about a lot. A least your Harmans and your Milibands and your Ballses and your generally comfortably brought up Labourites care. That doesn't always get you the outcome you want, but it's probably a better starting point than not caring.

 

The thing I don't get about this generation of Tories is that they don't care about people. They showed signs of a change when they were in opposition but that went clean out the window. Thatcher's belief was that anarchistic markets could go hand in hand with social stability. Social stability was an aim - the family, the schools, communities, Sundays in church and so on - but the other strand in the philosophy negated it. You can't have those kinds of markets and social stability.

 

This generation of Tories is a further remove from that. The idea is this: if you can't have markets and social stability, why not just have markets?

 

The problem is that the world isn't like what they think it is. In fact, the competition is not between socialism and capitalism any more, but different types of capitalism (Chinese, Russian, American etc.). The Tories seem to have gone for what is known as the Washington version (meaning not American capitalism, but IMF capitalism). The IMF went around debt-defaulting nations in Africa in the '80s telling them to cut spending or else, resulting in poverty, aids epidemics, starvation, civil war and so on. The Tories are going for that model. They don't seem to realise that there are other, more up-to-date models.

 

Their economics, in my view, are no less than mismanagement bordering on vandalism. The tightwads of Richmond, Yorks, no less than the uppity folk in Richmond, Surrey, may or may not feel the cuts. But their country will be a :censored:hole while they cheer the Tories on.

 

 

[mikejh45]

Here's something I've thought about a lot. A least your Harmans and your Milibands and your Ballses and your generally comfortably brought up Labourites care. That doesn't always get you the outcome you want, but it's probably a better starting point than not caring. .

 

Sorry...but I don't see this caring bit!!!

 

Quite frankly, we have way too many "Honourable" members who have never had a proper job!!!

[oafc0000]

What really annoyed me today putting politics a side was the grins and smiles as they announced people would be losing their jobs and their lives going to :censored:... Annoyed me more than a little..

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

What really annoyed me today putting politics a side was the grins and smiles as they announced people would be losing their jobs and their lives going to :censored:... Annoyed me more than a little..

 

I was there. I had to listen to it - in the same room. I had to watch. I'll not forget it.

[downender2]

Where is it you live then? Well done on contradicting yourself. "I'm allright Jack" has always been the attitude of the Tories. Do you seriously believe that the Tories care about what happens in the North of England?

 

In fact, the cuts have been made through ideology, not through good sense. The cheers in parliament when Osbourne (himself a multi-millionaire) announced job cut after job cut and the decimation of our services spoke volumes. The Tories have got what they have always wanted in their battle against the poor, and washed their hands of the underprivileged altogether.

 

Its the sheer incompetence though that is most frustrating; why scrap the Nimrod project; this project is 11/12 of the way through. Why scrap this now? The savings pale into insignificance when compared to the amount already spent. You can guarantee that if the jobs effected were in London or the South East, not in Oldham and Woodford, then these cuts would not have happened. Aside from the fact that my Dad will lose his job in the next few weeks.

 

Fair enough, London, the south and south east will get away pretty much free. Up here, things are a lot more difficult and we will see real civil unrest. I'm allright though Jack eh?

 

we will see real civil unrest

 

I very much doubt it....we can only hope...

[downender2]

I was there. I had to listen to it - in the same room. I had to watch. I'll not forget it.

 

in the public gallery....

[garcon]

Civil unrest?

 

Nah, that kind of thing happens in France (wait until wine production is affected...)

 

Here we'll just tutt and turn in grim despair to the jobs pages.

 

 

Mind you, if there is some civil unrest I hope that involves somebody punching Osbourne - ideally without then being arrested for child abuse.

[oafc0000]

Civil unrest?

 

Nah, that kind of thing happens in France (wait until wine production is affected...)

 

Here we'll just tutt and turn in grim despair to the jobs pages.

 

 

Mind you, if there is some civil unrest I hope that involves somebody punching Osbourne - ideally without then being arrested for child abuse.

 

Oh I don't know... If you push the British people hard enough they will bite...

 

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

in the public gallery....

 

In the Press Gallery, behind the Speaker's Chair. Best seats in the House. You can see everything. It was proper grim. Tories in the back row clenching their fists with joy and saying "Yeeaasss" as another 20,000 immoral public servants join the dole queue. Unbelievable really. Scandalous. No one really voted for this either. What a day.