Anyone who has received their Census form

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

If you're not religious, tell the census so

 

I was living with my father during the last one, and I doubt very much he but me down as non religious even though I was Atheist.

Edited March 7, 2011 by PhilStarbucksSilkySkills

[Ackey]

Done. Tweeted. FB'd. Emailed.

 

Do it people. Do it now.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

Top man, Ackey

[oafc0000]

Religious here

 

I think people should accurately portray themselves via the census.

 

I do find it interesting how people who say they are not religious still tick that box, get their kids christened, won't get married outside of a church...

 

I think if we are going to explore peoples spirituality on a census then the questions should be more developed.

 

I personally think a lot of people who wilfully tick the box while not being "religious" still retain belief in a higher power. No doubt a lot are also just doing it through habit as well.

 

I think its important to understand the mix up of the population and its various ground swells of feeling. So answering the question properly is a good thing.

[Ackey]

Agree 0000's - I would never ask anyone to answer dishonestly. But as the Humanist website points out many will tick "Christian" because that's what they were born into, not because they actively believe the little book or because they want to be Governed by a Christian government.

 

It's important - and you would agree with this I think despite your Christianity - that the state and religion are distinctly separate. This might not seem such an issue here in comparison the United States or Middle Eastern countries, however it's still true that Christianity holds considerable sway over the actions of our government and it's decision makers.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

I do find it interesting how people who say they are not religious still tick that box, get their kids christened, won't get married outside of a church...

That boggles my mind too. As a non believer I frequently wonder or even ask these people why they do these things, even if they don't believe or give any thought to the matter.

 

I think if I was still a Christian I might even be a little upset that these people were indulging in a practice that I take very seriously and treating it as mere tradition or ritual.

 

As far as people christening their kids goes, I can't help thinking Marlon Brando and Al Pacino have a lot to answer for on keeping that particular ritual going strong amongst the heathens.

[oafc0000]

Agree 0000's - I would never ask anyone to answer dishonestly. But as the Humanist website points out many will tick "Christian" because that's what they were born into, not because they actively believe the little book or because they want to be Governed by a Christian government.

 

It's important - and you would agree with this I think despite your Christianity - that the state and religion are distinctly separate. This might not seem such an issue here in comparison the United States or Middle Eastern countries, however it's still true that Christianity holds considerable sway over the actions of our government and it's decision makers.

 

I believe in both my religion and democracy. They are never at odds. The bible teaches that you should always abide by local law and government as this creates a good society (not a direct quote but I can find it if you wish).

 

The quoted article puts Christianity around 70% via the census and above 50% via other measures. The fundamentals of democracy show why Christian thoughts and feelings are very much legitimately apart of our politics.

 

This said, there is up to another 50% of people in the country (taking the highest figure) who believe differently. So it is VERY important that the separation of state and religion is exercised as much as reasonably possible.

 

Its a tough one Ackey to be honest. If the majority of people within a national believe and feels x, democracy will always reflect that.

 

Its not as black and white as people both side of the arguments think it is. Mutual respect and opportunity is where I try to put myself.

Edited March 7, 2011 by oafc0000

[oafc0000]

I think if I was still a Christian I might even be a little upset that these people were indulging in a practice that I take very seriously and treating it as mere tradition or ritual.

 

Amen to that brother...

[rudemedic]

As someone who has spent a bit of time of late picking through the various holes in survey questions, there is definately an element of making the question as simple as possible to get the most number of people to answer it. The position in the census is also important- too far in and those that do answer (which will decrease) may not answer correctly.

 

On the last census I wanted to answer Jedi and being 17 at the time thought I was more than capable of doing so rationally only to find out my Dad had already answered for me (as he's head of the household) and put me down as CoE. This year as a student living away from home I may not get that option again but hopefully I will and will answer every question as accurately as I can (as no doubt there will be more holes for me to pick through). The census plays a vast role in lots of things- you'll still find some research using data from the last census being done now and I encourage everyone to particpate in this vital process to the full extent of their ability.

[Ackey]

Its a tough one Ackey to be honest. If the majority of people within a national believe and feels x, democracy will always reflect that.

Reflection is fine. That's inevitable. However there are still many laws and practices which are based on or around Christian beliefs. They're not new, they've been there for decades. I'm not suggesting we need to work aggressively to change these laws, that will happen organically over time as laws and practices evolve (Sunday trading being relaxed for example).

 

 

However this is important not for our generation but for those to come. A 50% Christian population will hopefully make more secular decisions than that of a 70% Christian society - because as you say the law reflects the beliefs. As a result in time there will be a society in the UK which is less religiously founded and thus as we continue to evolve and more and more people are raised in non-religious ways that percentage will continue to rise and we will continue to move to a reason based secular society.

 

I know you hold your beliefs dear and I would never ever support a society that didn't respect your right to them, However I do genuinely believe that without indoctrination that we'd live in a society far less troubled by religious divides. That will come as we build a society which is just as tolerant but less supportive of religion.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

The bible teaches that you should always abide by local law and government as this creates a good society (not a direct quote but I can find it if you wish).

SO not my philosophy.

 

If I think that the law is wrong I will abide by it by exactly as much as it is my interests to do so. Or to put it another way if the law is at odds with my moral compass, I will not abide with law if I am confident I will not be punished.

 

Anyway. Whatever happens, that 72% figure is sure to see some shrinkage. 10 years is a long time, and much has happened.

[oafc0000]

However I do genuinely believe that without indoctrination that we'd live in a society far less troubled by religious divides. That will come as we build a society which is just as tolerant but less supportive of religion.

 

For balance I will just say my thoughts are...

 

Religion is always the mask for the real fight... Usually money, power and land..

 

but I don't want another 20 page debate on this

[oafc0000]

If I think that the law is wrong I will abide by it by exactly as much as it is my interests to do so. Or to put it another way if the law is at odds with my moral compass, I will not abide with law if I am confident I will not be punished.

 

Interesting.. Its hard to get into this on here but the rise of "self" is undoubtedly a trend within our society. I fear its a very aggressive form of liberalism though that ultimately is going to be very damaging.

 

A great example of it was explored on Question Time this week and the idea was brilliantly set out by David Starkey.

Edited March 7, 2011 by oafc0000

[Ackey]

For balance I will just say my thoughts are...

 

Religion is always the mask for the real fight... Usually money, power and land..

 

but I don't want another 20 page debate on this

Oh go on? I've work under control until the Engineer finally arrives at site so I can argue for a good half hour yet!

 

I'd say that the mask of religion is indeed true. It's used as a method of mass population control, wealth acquisition, land acquisition and it's working just as it was designed all those years ago!

 

 

[oafc0000]

Oh go on? I've work under control until the Engineer finally arrives at site so I can argue for a good half hour yet!

 

I'd say that the mask of religion is indeed true. It's used as a method of mass population control, wealth acquisition, land acquisition and it's working just as it was designed all those years ago!

 

Then we are in pretty much total agreement. The negative use of religion through the years is certainty something I quite happily explore point out and argue about with fellow Christians. It dosen't rock my faith though. if nothing else it actually strengthens it.

 

I think more Christians get it and we are seeing going forward are better bunch of Christians for it. The stereotypes I hear from people don't match the people I know. Even the Catholics are starting to get it a bit more

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

Religion is always the mask for the real fight... Usually money, power and land..

Perhaps. When it comes to the people at the top of the fight making decisions, I'd mostly agree.

 

But regardless, religion is the fuel for the fire that is often used to influence the people. And there are no more divisive and powerful motivator towards violence than believing that the wishes of the eternal creator of the universe (as interpretted for you by a select few) are on your side, and in conflict with your opponents.

 

When religion is accompanied with a liberal, secular mindset it is fine. When it is not, it can be the most powerful and invasive motivational force on the planet.

[oafc0000]

Faith and Religion are not as intwined for me...

 

I believe in God... Church / Religion gives me a mechanism to explor and challenge my faith...

 

I wouldn't say I am the typical Christian really. I don't believe in the story of creation for starters

Edited March 7, 2011 by oafc0000

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

aggressive form of liberalism

 

Not sure how liberalism could ever be aggressive. I would have thought aggression negates liberalism.

Edited March 7, 2011 by PhilStarbucksSilkySkills

[oafc0000]

Perhaps. When it comes to the people at the top of the fight making decisions, I'd mostly agree.

 

But regardless, religion is the fuel for the fire that is often used to influence the people. And there are no more divisive and powerful motivator towards violence than believing that the wishes of the eternal creator of the universe (as interpretted for you by a select few) are on your side, and in conflict with your opponents.

 

When religion is accompanied with a liberal, secular mindset it is fine. When it is not, it can be the most powerful and invasive motivational force on the planet.

 

Never underestimate the ability of any given :censored: to hijack anything for there own good...

 

Looking forward, I don't see the average church goer as something negative. I mix with them daily and its mostly raising money for charity, caring for the vulnerable and praying for a more loving society.

 

The futures bright, I hope

[Ackey]

Then we are in pretty much total agreement. The negative use of religion through the years is certainty something I quite happily explore point out and argue about with fellow Christians. It dosen't rock my faith though. if nothing else it actually strengthens it.

 

I think more Christians get it and we are seeing going forward are better bunch of Christians for it. The stereotypes I hear from people don't match the people I know. Even the Catholics are starting to get it a bit more

All we disagree on is Faith. I will not accept something that was built as a "mask" for power hungry people thousands of years ago as the guiding force in my life, be it as a moral compass or an ideal in lawmaking.

 

You have Faith in those who made religion. I don't.

 

Thankfully Britain has evolved over the last 300 years to the point where we live in a country where Christians will no longer kill me for heresy. I'd like to see it continue to the point where Religion is marginalised as insignificant but accepted. It will not happen in my lifetime sadly, but I can do my tiny little part by ticking "Atheist" on the Census.

[oafc0000]

You have Faith in those who made religion. I don't.

 

No I have faith in god... Religion is just a tool to explore that faith...

[oafc0000]

Not sure how liberalism could ever be aggressive. I would have thought aggression negates liberism.

 

Really...

 

You tell people they shouldnt't believe in their god, practice their faith, believe certain things... and if they do they can't take part in certain practices as there thoughts are unsavoury...

 

That is aggressive liberalism leading right back to fascism... and its slowly creeping into our society... Some people call it the thought police...

 

To be frank its fascism disguised as liberalism...

Edited March 7, 2011 by oafc0000

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

If we don't win this one and the next we're in trouble.

 

Oh. And religion and the state are not separate in this country. The Queen is the head of state and also the head of the Church of England.

 

If you're not religious, shut up about religion.

[PhilStarbucksSilkySkills]

You tell people they shouldnt't believe in their god, practice their faith, believe certain things... and if they do they can't take part in certain practices as there thoughts are unsavoury...

Who's telling people that now? Noone i've ever heard of.

 

And if it was going on it would be the very opposite of liberal now wouldn't it?

 

Hence "Aggressive Liberalism" is entirely the wrong label.

[oafc0000]

Who's telling people that now? Noone i've ever heard of.

 

And if it was going on it would be the very opposite of liberal now wouldn't it?

 

Hence "Aggressive Liberalism" is entirely the wrong label.

 

How about the Christian couple who have been struck off fostering because of their religious beliefs ?

 

Its just one recent example...

 

Liberal campaigners / Groups heavily pushed for it saying they wanted a more liberal society without realising its a form of fascism.

 

I think my point is liberalism is being hijacked to create fascism.

Edited March 7, 2011 by oafc0000