Ackey Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 This ^ This man deserves prosecution. The system is the system, it's a fallacy to detract from the morality in convicting him by questioning the court. Read the Leo Traynor article and see what impact words can have on a person in a strong mental state and then imagine what the impact could be on a person who is mourning the near certain death and rape of their pre-teen daughter. You can sugar coat it in free speech or claim the courts are insufficient - but I am yet to see you put forth any reason for this man not to be charged. To say that words can't hurt as much if not more than a knife is not to know them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 This man deserves prosecution. The system is the system, it's a fallacy to detract from the morality in convicting him by questioning the court. Read the Leo Traynor article and see what impact words can have on a person in a strong mental state and then imagine what the impact could be on a person who is mourning the near certain death and rape of their pre-teen daughter. You can sugar coat it in free speech or claim the courts are insufficient - but I am yet to see you put forth any reason for this man not to be charged. To say that words can't hurt as much if not more than a knife is not to know them at all. I'm not aware that he directed the words towards the family. If sick jokes were a cause for criminal actions I doubt many of us would have made it out of junior school. All that has happened is that the courts are being asked to apply new rules to essentially the same act because Twitter and Facebook magnify it. It's very dodgy territory if a viewpoint you could have made in the pub or email is now criminalised on another media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 YOI for making sick jokes about something in the news? They're gonna have to nick every playground card in the country. Jesus. On the other hand...they can throw the key away for the two knobbers who published the name of the Ched Evans rape victim online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Got to agree here that if he is making jokes, then he's a knob head of the highest kind, but 12 weeks jail???? Highly emotive response when justice is supposed to be more objective. Surely a community sentence would have been much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 This man deserves prosecution. The system is the system, it's a fallacy to detract from the morality in convicting him by questioning the court. Read the Leo Traynor article and see what impact words can have on a person in a strong mental state and then imagine what the impact could be on a person who is mourning the near certain death and rape of their pre-teen daughter. You can sugar coat it in free speech or claim the courts are insufficient - but I am yet to see you put forth any reason for this man not to be charged. To say that words can't hurt as much if not more than a knife is not to know them at all. My response could only echo what LL has already said a few posts up. In addition Words hurt on an emotional level. Sure. But there are are couple of problems with prosecuting 'offensive' words unless they are also seriously threatening, harrassing (that means repeated and targetted) or seriously defaming. 1) The ability of the state or any person or persons to decide correctly what 'offensive' language should or shouldn't be considered criminal and to what extent. That for me would take faith. And I don't do faith. 2) You are now in a situation where any joke, viewpoint, insult, if verbalised or written down and enough of the "I am offended" brigade are exposed to it and they are sufficiently outraged, can lead you with a custodial sentence and a criminal record. This I find intolerable. Frankly I'm starting to feel like I'm living in a George Orwell novel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scratch2000uk Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 A man convicted of posting a grossly offensive Facebook message about the deaths of six British troops has been given a community order. Azhar Ahmed's remarks included "all soldiers should DIE and go to HELL" - and his comments were described as "derogatory, disrespectful and inflammatory" by a district judge. http://news.sky.com/story/995338/facebook-man-spared-jail-over-comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) So now its a criminal offence to be a :censored: ? This guy is most defiantly a :censored:... but criminal ? What a sorry mess... Scary where this could end up / has ended up... The conviction against the man who made comments about soldiers is far more serious than this one.. Even thought the sentence was less... Edited October 9, 2012 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I can't quite get my head around why it's "scary". Just don't be a dick and you'll be fine. It's stood many millions of people in good stead since time began. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I can't quite get my head around why it's "scary". Just don't be a dick and you'll be fine. It's stood many millions of people in good stead since time began. It's scary because we are all dicks from time to time, and the rules on what being a dick is can change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It's scary because we are all dicks from time to time, and the rules on what being a dick is can change. Exactly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) I can't quite get my head around why it's "scary". Just don't be a dick and you'll be fine. It's stood many millions of people in good stead since time began. Any opinion can cause offence... I have plenty of them... Where do you draw the line between what is criminal and what is not ? Vicar giving opinions on homosexuality ? BNP giving opinion on immigration ? Or someone on facebook being pissed of with soldiers and the massive loss of lives at their hands / misuse of forces by the government ? The best forum for these debates is between people in the pub / tv shows / forums / facebook etc... Not the courts.... Its harder to defend the comments about a murdered little girl... But what's up with just branding someone a :censored:, defriending them on facebook and ignoring their text messages when they ask are you coming to the pub on Friday ? Edited October 9, 2012 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It's scary because we are all dicks from time to time, and the rules on what being a dick is can change. I'm not scared, but that's probably because I don't publish comments about emotive subjects that are generally considered to be "off limits". I get the whole crux of the counter argument, there's no need to continue discussing this with me because I simply don't agree. I'm not going to try and change anyone's mind, it's an exercise in futility. Just thought I'd say my piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm not scared, but that's probably because I don't publish comments about emotive subjects that are generally considered to be "off limits". I get the whole crux of the counter argument, there's no need to continue discussing this with me because I simply don't agree. I'm not going to try and change anyone's mind, it's an exercise in futility. Just thought I'd say my piece. I am offended by your none argumentive and senstive nature... I am calling the cops :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Good, you :censored:er! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm not scared, but that's probably because I don't publish comments about emotive subjects that are generally considered to be "off limits". I get the whole crux of the counter argument, there's no need to continue discussing this with me because I simply don't agree. I'm not going to try and change anyone's mind, it's an exercise in futility. Just thought I'd say my piece. I wouldn't rest on your laurels on the belief that you aren't a dick sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Only sometimes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Any opinion can cause offence... I have plenty of them... Where do you draw the line between what is criminal and what is not ? Vicar giving opinions on homosexuality ? BNP giving opinion on immigration ? Or someone on facebook being pissed of with soldiers and the massive loss of lives at their hands / misuse of forces by the government ? The best forum for these debates is between people in the pub / tv shows / forums / facebook etc... Not the courts.... Its harder to defend the comments about a murdered little girl... But what's up with just branding someone a :censored:, defriending them on facebook and ignoring their text messages when they ask are you coming to the pub on Friday ? This, I was talking to the wife about this last night and I was incredulous at the idiocy of modern Britain. Is it worthy of the time and the cost of prosecuting and criminalising someone for the sake of a few callous comments, that whilst nasty and insensitive are they against the law of the land? Ones abilities to speak their mind are slowly but surely being eroded, we live in a society that is oversensitive to any negative happening and everyone has to be perceived to be doing and saying the right thing. Anyone who strays away from the mob opinion is vilified. Things seemed to go down hill after Diana's death imo, with an outpouring of national grief that mirrored that of Kim Jong Il's death in North Korea. Social Media encourages lynch mob mentality, the lad who made the comments is an utter prick but as far as I know you can't get prosecuted for being a prick. Obviously I was wrong.. Edited October 9, 2012 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It's about time and place. If you're gonna walk through a supermarket smoking a joint likelihood is someone will call the bill. If you do it in your own home, no one gives a :censored:. Making jokes, about such a sensitive, unresolved, high profile case such as the April Jones one, on an open platform like Facebook then he's asking for trouble, such jokes are best left at the pub after 5 or 6 pints. What he's done here is incite negative reactions and is akin to hate speech. He got what he deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It's about time and place. If you're gonna walk through a supermarket smoking a joint likelihood is someone will call the bill. If you do it in your own home, no one gives a :censored:. Making jokes, about such a sensitive, unresolved, high profile case such as the April Jones one, on an open platform like Facebook then he's asking for trouble, such jokes are best left at the pub after 5 or 6 pints. What he's done here is incite negative reactions and is akin to hate speech. He got what he deserved. I have a problem with the use of, "incitement," in general. To use a contextual example, some folk thought that Ian Moore-Knobend was inciting us with his cheeky celebrations. I felt it was up to me to control myself and decide whether I was going to throw stuff/go on the pitch etc or do nowt. He could also quite fairly have said that I'd incited him by calling his mother a whore for 60 minutes. Incitement takes away the ability of a person to take responsibility for their own actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It's the tyranny of someone who's decided to take offence or to act as if they've been "incited" that gets me too. I agree with Leeslover. And what's all this bollocks about "generally considered" to be beyond the pale? Who's to say what's "generally considered"? The magistrate who was never really a youth? The judge who spent a lot on his children's education and who generally eschews new media, such as the "television"? Azher Ahmed and the April Jones offence generator have been seriously wronged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Another belter !! http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1590825_terry-christian-banned-from-watching-son-play-after-criticising-ref-on-twitter Terry Christian banned from watching son play after criticising ref on Twitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Another belter !! http://menmedia.co.u...-ref-on-twitter Terry Christian banned from watching son play after criticising ref on Twitter Not exactly in the same league as all the other insanity that's going on, but interesting nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Another belter !! http://menmedia.co.u...-ref-on-twitter Terry Christian banned from watching son play after criticising ref on Twitter Actually I have no problem with this. It's a private matter, the FA don't like the way he has publically attacked a ref and have acted accordingly. It's not the same thing as the Government sending you to jail over a matter of opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I know but just another example of how you cant do or say anything these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I know but just another example of how you cant do or say anything these days Terry Christian :censored:s baby goats, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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