LEE HUGHES......

[Inspiral_Carpet]

Well I read all this thread and bits of other stuff on JK and can we have a voting option that says Don't Know, cos I really don't.

 

In footballing terms yes, in all other ways I'm struggling to think how this man being associated with our club is a good thing.

 

Something in the back of my mind keeps telling me this will end up a colossal mistake by OAFC.

 

I know and accept folks should be given a second chance and I know hes' served his time and if he wasn't high profile nobody would give a monkeys chuff about him going back to work, the fact is he is high profile, he is for want of a better phrase "bad news" and he is being linked with our club.

 

Don't know, not convinced, and as Gillian says if he'd signed for say Tranmere the reams of faux indignation received by us from others would be being equally vented at Tranmere by Latics fans. But he's not off to anywhere else and therefore we see the need to justify everything despite what I suspect many of us have previously felt about people like Hughes.

 

No not convinced and I'm not actually convinced he'll actually end up at BP either. Anyway its gained us lots of publicity, all bad (and I don't buy into that all publicity is good publicity crap) and possibly gained us a Premiership/Championship calibre player, and will get him on the cheap too I'll bet, he cynically said.

 

Excellent post Stipey.

 

All day yesterday I was uneasy with this news. Excited and pleased for footballing reasons, but concerned about the impact it could have on The Club as a whole. I've said it on another thread but I am convinced we will lose Supporters over this.

 

I do think he will end up here though. And I think he will become a bit of a legend on the pitch. I really hope that both Hughes and Latics ensure that he does masses for The Community - and spearheads some local campaigns. Drink driving is back in the news again since the younger element are doing it more and more.

 

There must be an opportunity for him to use his position and past as a salutory tale.

[Scapegoat]

My two penneth.

 

The footballer

 

the player he was when the incident happened was a far higher standard than anyone else in League One. The 'premiership' tag is a little generous, more a Top quality Championship player playing for a team struggling in the Prem. 3 years is a long long break from the game, both physically and mentally - and given where he is, there is no way of acertaining whether he can ever be the player he was.

 

But, as long as the deal doesn't cripple Shez's options for strengthening/retaining the squad from a financial point of view, then on a footballing front it seems like a worthwhile risk. How else could we get a player of that potential?

 

The criminal convition

 

Tough one. Any individual that is convicted of a criminal offence and has served their sentence has the right to return to society (some offences carrying lifetime restrictions e.g. holding a fire-arm licence, working with children etc). Because that person was a professional footballer and therefore attracted more media attention, should not change that.

 

On that basis - he has the right to do what he is doing. You may (myself included) feel that the severity of the sentence and the length of it served is perhaps inappropriate, but in the end he is about to be released and should be allowed to re-start his life. There are many criminals whose crimes seem particulary unacceptable - drink driving is one of them - but our system does not diferentiate this.

 

Oldham Athletic

 

The fact that its Latics that have decided to take the decision to employ him is interesting as it makes our club the centre of a lot of attention, some of it unwanted.

 

The club will attract media attention. The fans will attract strong views from opposition fans (terraces and messageboards). The player will attract abuse from oppostion fans (home fans?) and players.

 

The club can hopefully deal with this - the media attention will fade after he has played a few games (unless he gets into more trouble).

 

The fans will probably rally behind him from the terraces and he will become a kind of cult figure - its the Fergie "everyone hates us" mentality that will probably make a lot of our fans close ranks. Also because he his playing for us, we will choose to support him due to cognitive dissidence (look it up!) and the alternative option is to not-support a Latics player.

 

Many of the comments on here and JK saying give him a chance etc. would be in the other camp if Tranmere / Blackpool etc. Because its Latics, we feel more like backing the situation. Its natural. Therefore we can expect a large amount of baiting from opposition fans - and all I can say is I hope we rise above it.

 

It terms of the player. He is going to have to be incredibley strong mentally to cope with the 'sledging' etc he will get. I don't know what his temprement was like before this - but can you imagine the needle he will get almost every game? It could be this, not his footballing ability that is the biggest risk.

 

There is a danger that the one individual and associated circus could detract from the rest of the team and be a disruptive factor. Equally there is the risk that he gets his head down, doesn't react, and scores 25 goals.

 

 

In the end I fall onto the 'give him a chance' side of the fence. I know people that have served prison sentences, and I know how difficult it is to get a foothold back into normal society (jobs etc) - so I believe in the second chance (or 3rd or 4th in some circumstances).

 

But there are some harsh and difficult times ahead for Lee, the club and ourselves if he does indeed pull on the blue shirt.

[Inspiral_Carpet]

There are some excellent posts on this thread and it is great to read them without the interjection of puerile comments from idiots of other Clubs.

 

Sometimes, I think we could do with sensible comment from oppositition fans on here but I certainly don't miss the morons. That said, it is refreshing to see that our fans are reasonable and can see both sides of the story, respecting other points of view and debating sensibly.

 

Good stuff and keep 'em coming!

[StipeTripe]

There are some excellent posts on this thread and it is great to read them without the interjection of puerile comments from idiots of other Clubs.

 

Sometimes, I think we could do with sensible comment from oppositition fans on here but I certainly don't miss the morons. That said, it is refreshing to see that our fans are reasonable and can see both sides of the story, respecting other points of view and debating sensibly.

 

Good stuff and keep 'em coming!

 

 

I'll second that IC, much better than trwling through the "banter" to find constructive posts on JK

[thetramfixer]

I'll second that IC, much better than trwling through the "banter" to find constructive posts on JK

 

 

and a third.................

 

 

that other site is depressing sometimes... and full of eeejuts !! notice how one of the grown ups has had to do some prunning of posts due to our impending new signing

 

 

ps ...greganator.... nice avatar!! should of got the real one that waves lol

Edited May 31, 2007 by thetramdriver

[Prendy_1984]

I was listening to talksport last night and some opinions are baffling. One guy said he shouldn't be allowed to play ever again and should change his career. But nobody else would be expected to change their career. Lee Hughes has to be treated like everyone else would be and that means when he is released he is allowed to continue his career. I am quite shocked by all the coverage it recieved yesterday and can't remember such fuss about the likes of Bowyer, Woodgate and Tony Adams.

 

My personal view is that he should be in prison for a lot longer but that is our governments fault, I think it is a worthwhile risk and if we don't sign him some other club will. I believe it was a good move by the club to look into this before other clubs did.

[leezyverpunk]

I was listening to talksport last night and some opinions are baffling. One guy said he shouldn't be allowed to play ever again and should change his career. But nobody else would be expected to change their career. Lee Hughes has to be treated like everyone else would be and that means when he is released he is allowed to continue his career. I am quite shocked by all the coverage it recieved yesterday and can't remember such fuss about the likes of Bowyer, Woodgate and Tony Adams.

 

My personal view is that he should be in prison for a lot longer but that is our governments fault, I think it is a worthwhile risk and if we don't sign him some other club will. I believe it was a good move by the club to look into this before other clubs did.

 

spot on (no, not me willy!)

[Guest gillianfn]

I'm going to have my final word and then I'm done.

 

I spoke to my son last night, who is also a footballer, doesn't drink at all, has never smoked and never tried drugs - he is utterly intent on forging whatever career he can in football, if that is playing, coaching or whatever - he is so dedicated it's frightening. I told him I would be inclined not to go to Latics again if Hughes came to us. He said "Come on mum, everyone deserves a second chance" I asked him if he would take the same view if his dad or grandad had been killed by him - he said I wasn't being fair.

 

So, I sat back and I thought very hard about the situation. I do believe that everyone deserves second chances, I'm sure Hughes didn't set out to kill and cripple someone that evening. I do have issues with the fact he disappeared and failed to report etc - but, that is done and can't be changed.

 

I don't want to see him in the first team at Boundary Park and that is my view. However, I accept that he has to earn a living and I also accept that it is highly likely that football is all he knows. So, with that in mind, what would be acceptable to me (and at the end of the day, who the hell am I, as someone pointed out yesterday) but what would sit easier would be if Hughes were to take up some role with the youth at the club, do his coaching badges, give part of his salary to victim support or some similar charity. Now that would not stick in my throat as much as watching him simply play football for a living. The balance will never be redressed, his actions that evening are forever, it cannot be changed. However, he can go some way to makng amends, albeit as I say, it can never ever be put right.

 

Inspector pointed out to me that we should not stop supporting the club we have supported all our lives because of one person and I find myself agreeing with him.

 

That is all I have to say now.

[jorvik_latic]

I'm going to have my final word and then I'm done.

 

I spoke to my son last night, who is also a footballer, doesn't drink at all, has never smoked and never tried drugs - he is utterly intent on forging whatever career he can in football, if that is playing, coaching or whatever - he is so dedicated it's frightening. I told him I would be inclined not to go to Latics again if Hughes came to us. He said "Come on mum, everyone deserves a second chance" I asked him if he would take the same view if his dad or grandad had been killed by him - he said I wasn't being fair.

 

So, I sat back and I thought very hard about the situation. I do believe that everyone deserves second chances, I'm sure Hughes didn't set out to kill and cripple someone that evening. I do have issues with the fact he disappeared and failed to report etc - but, that is done and can't be changed.

 

I don't want to see him in the first team at Boundary Park and that is my view. However, I accept that he has to earn a living and I also accept that it is highly likely that football is all he knows. So, with that in mind, what would be acceptable to me (and at the end of the day, who the hell am I, as someone pointed out yesterday) but what would sit easier would be if Hughes were to take up some role with the youth at the club, do his coaching badges, give part of his salary to victim support or some similar charity. Now that would not stick in my throat as much as watching him simply play football for a living. The balance will never be redressed, his actions that evening are forever, it cannot be changed. However, he can go some way to makng amends, albeit as I say, it can never ever be put right.

 

Inspector pointed out to me that we should not stop supporting the club we have supported all our lives because of one person and I find myself agreeing with him.

 

That is all I have to say now.

 

Well said.

 

This issue has made everyone think long and hard- and I've still not decided how I feel! It's great to have reasoned debate on this forum without the WUMs.

 

Only time will tell and I think I'll only make my mind up when/if we sign him(as it's still only on a handshake), and see what he does when he gets out. Let's see how he handles his second chance.

[wardlelatic]

Very Balanced statement there Gillian.

 

 

I found this from a amateur site , which I think looks at the situation that your not comfortable with from a different angle.

 

3pointsonsatwilldo Posted on 31/5 12:48 Email this Message | Reply

re: Hughes and libelous posts

 

What he did was wrong

What he did by running away was cowardly !

 

Why did he run away ? he was allegedly drunk and high on Cocaine he had just been involved in a serious accident and panicked !

 

When any of use are drunk or high, do we do the right or moral thing ? I'd 99.9% say no !

 

Being drunk or high isn't an excuse its a reason, Is it the reason that Jonathan Woodgate, Lee Bowyer, Patrick Kluivert, Bryan Robson , Tony Adams and Graham Rix all did immoral things but were allowed back into society with another chance?

 

I have personal experience of tragic events due to someone being drunk, Does it help knowing that everyday that person is still doing their job, breathing, enjoying life - NO

Would it make me feel any better knowing they were dead, locked up ? again No.

 

When Hughes puts on that Blue shirt or Tangerine while playing away, he will get my support. If he feels down because of the abuse he is getting from away supporters(and probably home ones too) I hope that there is someone out there in the team or stands that will help and support him, after all he has had to go to sleep every night for the past 3 years knowing what he did ! Sometimes life is unfair to us all, its what we do when facing adversity thats makes us better people and important part of society.

[Stevie_J]

There is certainly some very interesting debate in this thread and I've chosen to sit back and see how it developed. I thought I'd post my view now, however.

 

I can see why people are having some trouble getting around the idea of having Hughes at Boundary Park. My opinion, though, is that our views on the legal system/sentencing/rehabilitation, etc. are somewhat irrelevant and only serve to cloud the issue of whether he SHOULD be allowed to continue his football career.

 

In August, if granted parole, he'll be free to pursue a career, like any other criminal who is released on parole. So I think he should be released three years after causing death by dangerous driving and fleeing the scene of the incident? Frankly, no, but as I've said, I think that's an irrelevance. The fact is that we, and the club, don't have any influence on those kind of decisions.

 

He did a terrible thing, as I'm sure he's gravely aware. But I do believe he has the same right as other parolees, to try and rebuild their lives. Would it be right to deny him the opportunity because of what happened? Well, I don't think so.

 

He's going to have to take a huge amount of stick when he's released, whatever happens, and I won't be particularly sympathetic. However, I've already seen him referred to as a 'murderer', which is utterly unfair.

 

As an aside to the ethical issues surrounding his signing, I always rated him very highly as a player and if he regain anything like his form, prior to his jail term, he'll be a class act at this level.

[Crusoe]

My tuppence-worth reproduced from JKLatics (this website is blocked at work):

 

"There are several questions around the Lee Hughes signing. I may not be saying much new here but wanted to get my own head in order and work out my opinion.

 

 

(a.) Should he be eligible for parole? Has he served sufficient time?

 

There are many debates on this area: should criminals be punished, rehabilitated or both? What is the appropriate sentence for a particular crime? If incarceration is an appropriate sentence, how long is appropriate for a particular crime? On what grounds should somebody be considered for early release? How should someone show remorse? Should familes have a say in sentencing and parole decisions or not? (don't get me started on that one)

 

All of these questions have one thing in common: they have nothing to do with the club's attempt to sign him and are part of a wider debate on the criminal justice system that is unlikely to be resolved by mouthing off on a football fans' message board. This club didn't get him out of prison or set his sentence.

 

 

(b.) Should he be permitted to play professional football again?

 

Experience suggests the law does not restrict subsequent employment except on what seems to be common sense grounds (child protection, for example). If the law does not restrict him, then this is yet another question that has nothing to do with the club's attempt to sign him. It is not the club's role to set a precedent if the law has not.

 

 

(c.) Should the club be attempting to sign him?

 

This is the clincher and this is the one we should be debating. I am uncomfortable with the decision and leaning towards "no", but for a slightly different reason to most suggested here. If he is paroled then in the eyes of the law he is fit to re-enter society and continue his chosen career. It doesn't matter how reprehensible anyone finds that decision: the law does not tell clubs what to do here (and if we disagree vehemently with that, well, see (a) above).

 

I am uncomfortable not because I feel Hughes should not be playing football...

 

(that's not my call, and I'm also uncertain how far these restrictions would go - if he was banned from football and became a successful property magnate, should he have his earnings in that field taken away? Do we refuse to pay the license fee or watch EastEnders because Leslie Grantham served only 11 years of a life sentence for murder? Are we supposed to "cap" the success of ex-cons forever, and if so what does that say about the idea that the criminal justice system should rehabilitate? And if his crime was so significant as to warrant further restrictions, who makes that rule and can we really make it consistent across all crimes?)

 

(sorry for the tangent)

 

...but because I think this smacks of a cheap publicity-grabbing manoeuvre by the club. Hughes may be physically fit but he's short of four years' match fitness and training. The club could expect well in advance that a storm of negative publicity would be generated, and that he will receive dog's abuse at every away ground, with no guarantee that his performances will help us win games.

 

I won't be boycotting games or burning tickets because my real concerns are about the criminal justice system, and hurting the club won't change sentencing or parole procedures or our attitude to how to deal with crime and punishment one bit. I do think this is a very bad misjudgment by the club, though.

 

Sorry that this rambles. Needed to clear my head on this and form an actual opinion."

Edited June 1, 2007 by Crusoe

[Latics4Ever]

People have jumped on the judicial issue of this case and decided that OAFC are to blame for the fact Hughes is being released from his sentence early.

 

Personally speaking, I believe a prison sentence should be served in full with additional time for any further laws you break while inside. The fact criminals are released early "for good behaviour" is the most nauseating line the Judicial Service trot out....people are in prison for the crimes they have commited before their incarceration. The fact they behave once inside is irrelevant in my opinion as they aren't in prison to display that behaviour but to serve their time. However, this is something the Government & Home Office need to tackle and bring to an end and is not related to football in any capacity.

 

The fact Hughes is available for parole and will be out in August is a fact. Assuming he is released, we have put ourselves in a position to sign someone who was proven to be a quality player who will do a good job in this division. However, from the interview on Granada, Latics also made it quite clear where they stand as a club in terms of the crime Hughes commited and have even stated that he will be required to work in the community teaching kids the error of his ways as part of his contract.

 

If, as seems likely, he is released then he can set about rebuilding his life and to do that he will need a job. As he was a professional footballer, then his trade is football. If we don't sign him, someone else will do. And I seem to recall ex-jailbirds Duncan Ferguson, Jamie Lawrence, Mick Quinn have been allowed to return to a footballing life after serving their time?

Edited June 2, 2007 by Inspiral_Carpet
One name removed. Will replace if proof given of the alleged jail term

[oafc_ok]

What was in prison for?

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

What was in prison for?

 

The "good behaviour" discount is the only thing keeping prisons from going nuclear.

[Nohairdontcare]

Criminals get early release from prison every day.

 

Victims, and their relatives, have to cope with this every day.

 

There is a big fuss about Lee because he is a footballer. If he was an electrician or a baker etc etc etc nobody would know or give a hoot.

 

My two cents: There would be nothing unlawful about his early release, and he is entitled to take up his previous line of work if the opportunity is there. I have sympathy for the victim, but there is no reason why Lee shouldn't play professional football for latics.

 

Finally, I don't think shouting abuse at him from the stands, as is certainly going to happen if he plays, is going to help anybody, including relatives of the victim.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Criminals get early release from prison every day.

 

Victims, and their relatives, have to cope with this every day.

 

There is a big fuss about Lee because he is a footballer. If he was an electrician or a baker etc etc etc nobody would know or give a hoot.

 

My two cents: There would be nothing unlawful about his early release, and he is entitled to take up his previous line of work if the opportunity is there. I have sympathy for the victim, but there is no reason why Lee shouldn't play professional football for latics.

 

Finally, I don't think shouting abuse at him from the stands, as is certainly going to happen if he plays, is going to help anybody, including relatives of the victim.

 

I think I've had enough of the relatives, even. They want Hughes to spend the rest of his days in homage to something he did when he was being an idiot. I feel sorry for their loss, but Hughes has every right now to get on with his life without bowing and scraping to their every whim.