jsslatic Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 May as well get this started now. Would you take a predictable QF exit now or could we maybe, just maybe, go a little bit further (draw dependent, of course)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Anything beyond the group is a bonus. If they go there without the burden of unreasonable expectation, and play with the tempo and attacking intent they showed tonight, then at least they'll be worth watching even in inevitable defeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 All depends on the draw; as we are in all likelihood not going to be a seeded side getting out of the group could be a reasonable achievement. A good draw and we will have a chance of progressing beyond the second round but I'm not holding my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_balls Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) You look at the World Rankings and you see Uruguay in the top 8, I wouldn't be scared of playing them. Likewise, in 2002 we weren't seeded, the Argies were, we beat them and both us and Sweden went through. I don't really care for the seeds, again if you look at 2012, we had such a tough group in France, Sweden and Ukraine it's hard to say who were the seeds, and guess what we won the group. It didn't really help us. I'm looking forward to drawing the Argies or Colombia or Belgium as the seeds and then Burkina Faso and Honduras. Edited October 15, 2013 by alex_balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 We should get out of the group. Anything else will be dependent on the draw. First decent team we play will most likely beat us. I just hope we approach the WC in a similar way that we did these last couple of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 We will struggle against any South American side there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davegtt Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Why all the negativity? On our day we ARE capable of beating any team. Not convincingly mind and it might not be fun to watch but hell its England, cant be any more fustrating than following Latics. As Milner said in his interview last night, even when we dont play to our best we have shown time and again we are still not easy to beat (Germany last WC aside) Think about all our QF exits previously, Portugal, Italy etc... Penalty shootouts, and we were unlucky that it got took to that with disallowed goals from Sol Campbell etc.... Im not hyping us up and saying we are going to go there and win the WC but, that said it doesnt mean we dont have a chance. Like saying only a handful of teams are capable of winning the FAC each year but you only have to look at recently finalists to know that everyone will have a fair crack at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) I'll say it again and again. We don't have a chance. Our players simply aren't good enough, and never will be while the objectives of our top division and our national team are diametrically opposite. We do usually manage to raise our game against the traditionally better sides (so we generally lose by the odd goal or pens instead of getting battered), but we're not good enough to consistently beat those around us. We all know FIFA rankings are bollocks - they'll probably have us fourth or something after two consecutive wins. Realistically we are only just top 20. The sooner we realise that and manage to send our team to competitions without the burden of impossible expectation the better. Send them with no expectation, let them play high tempo, attacking football with no fear and they might just surprise us and get to (or even beyond) the second round. Edited October 16, 2013 by garcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk2008 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Why all the negativity? On our day we ARE capable of beating any team. Not convincingly mind and it might not be fun to watch but hell its England, cant be any more fustrating than following Latics. As Milner said in his interview last night, even when we dont play to our best we have shown time and again we are still not easy to beat (Germany last WC aside) Think about all our QF exits previously, Portugal, Italy etc... Penalty shootouts, and we were unlucky that it got took to that with disallowed goals from Sol Campbell etc.... Im not hyping us up and saying we are going to go there and win the WC but, that said it doesnt mean we dont have a chance. Like saying only a handful of teams are capable of winning the FAC each year but you only have to look at recently finalists to know that everyone will have a fair crack at it. A number of things contribute to the waves of negativity you see from all types of football fan. You’ve got fans of United & City (now they’re one of the big boys) who are only interested in their clubs’ success and couldn’t care less if we got knocked out in the qualifying groups, for the simple petty reasons that they cannot stomach supporting their National Team because it has a few of their rivals players in it. Just pop on Bluemoon for 5 minutes and you will see them lambasting England, Roy and everything else NT related because the likes of Jones, Smalling, Welbeck, Cleverley et al are in the squad, and that hey hope we get knocked out. It’s ridiculous. Funny thing is, 5/10 years ago and those same fans would have been behind England. Amazing what glory does to you, isn’t it? Then you have sections of lower league fans (including some of our own) who can’t be doing with supporting a team full of “mega rich, prima donnas who apparently don’t care about playing for their National Team and are only interested in money and domestic glory”. Again, an embarrassing standpoint to view from. Finally, you have our media, who love nothing more than to slate us when we lose or play badly, and hype us up to Brazil 1970 levels when we win and play well. As a result, the fickle England fanbase seem to get brainwashed by it all and follow suit. The fact is, England are a good team. We’re not the best in the world, we’re not as good as Spain & Germany etc, however that doesn’t mean we’re the polar opposite – :censored: – does it? If people could get into their heads that we’re a side that is probably QF material at best, then that’d be a start. A semi final would be one of over achievement, IMO. I just wish people could be realistic and get behind England whether we’re playing well or not. It’s your country after all, and god knows how much :censored: we’ve seen Oldham serve up over the years, so we should be used to it anyway. And the funniest thing about all this is? The same people who slag England off to all & sundry during the qualifying stages will be the same people wanking all over their England flags and beeping their horns and filling the pubs next summer when we’re playing. I’m buzzing for next summer and I’m made up we’ve made it. Would have been :censored:e to watch a World Cup, in Brazil, without England being involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk2008 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I'll say it again and again. We don't have a chance. Our players simply aren't good enough, and never will be while the objectives of our top division and our national team are diametrically opposite. We do usually manage to raise our game against the traditionally better sides (so we generally lose by the odd goal or pens instead of getting battered), but we're not good enough to consistently beat those around us. We all know FIFA rankings are bollocks - they'll probably have us fourth or something after two consecutive wins. Realistically we are only just top 20. The sooner we realise that and manage to send our team to competitions without the burden of impossible expectation the better. Send them with no expectation, let them play high tempo, attacking football with no fear and they might just surprise us and get to (or even beyond) the second round. We're currently ranked 17th in the world, not 4th. We'll be in pot 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_balls Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I think he's saying the systems that daft that after two wins you jump a stupid amount of places and likewise if you lose a couple. Its a WC your gonna play tough teams, thats part of the fun of watching it, we drew Trinidad and Tobago in 06 and very nearly drew, we did in fact draw with Algeria in 2010. People were buzzing at drawing those teams, we were totally unconvincing. 2002 we drew Argentina, oh :censored: everyone thought, we won 1-0 and were class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I'm looking forward to it. Looks like we might at least go first instead of waiting for teams to roll over us or beat us on pens. Don't mind if we get thumped if we also have a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davegtt Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Agree with your analysis there. I just dont get it though. Uruguay last year had a deep run but it could have easily been Ghana in that Semi-Final. We are, as you say, not the opposite to the good teams and we should be able to compete against them. They'll be favorites but its no difference to saying Swansea can turn up against Utd/City and getting a result. We are capable. Also agreed about sending the boys off with no expectations. Never understood this mentality either. How can you have an expectation if you are not the favorites in the first place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 England in Brazil will give us more of an interest in football between the play-offs and the pre-season friendlies. It will also boost the economy to the estimated tune of £3bn. Stand by for Cameron & co wanting to be associated with football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 We've got no chance. As a team were nowhere near as good as Brazil, Italy, Germany, Spain, Holland, Argentina, Uruguay. And Argentina & Uruguay are practically at home aswell as Brazil. But, you never know...... I think Hodgson could do what a similarly much maligned Bobby Robson did in 1990. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Stand by for Cameron & co wanting to be associated with football. Hasn't that been the case with the last few PM's now? And so it should be. It's massively important to the country in numerous ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 Agree with your analysis there. I just dont get it though. Uruguay last year had a deep run but it could have easily been Ghana in that Semi-Final. We are, as you say, not the opposite to the good teams and we should be able to compete against them. They'll be favorites but its no difference to saying Swansea can turn up against Utd/City and getting a result. We are capable. Also agreed about sending the boys off with no expectations. Never understood this mentality either. How can you have an expectation if you are not the favorites in the first place Echo that about Ghana. In fact, but for Dempsey's last minute winner against Algeria we'd have won the group and played Ghana in the 2nd round with a shot at Uruguay in the QFs. I'm well aware of our shortcomings in South Africa but it wasn't beyond the realms of possibility that we'd have got past Ghana and had a decent shout of a SF place. We'd have been dicked by Holland no doubt in the semis but people would have been purring about the best run since 1966 etc. Fine margins and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 It doesn't matter what happens in Brazil, as long as Woy keeps the same attacking ethos as for the last 2 games, people will get behind the team if they give it a go instead of some of the negative :censored:e that has been peddled out in recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joncurtis199 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Agreed. If he did that England would make a good go at a decent run while being much less frustrating. As for the group itself, I'm not that worried about the draw - England have gotten out of just as tough groups in the Euros. That said, we can't really set the expectation until we see that draw and find out what our likely route is. Could a group we should top with a relatively easy second round tie, or it could be the total opposite. Edited October 16, 2013 by joncurtis199 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I still don't understand all the wanking going on in the media and elsewhere about Friday's performance vs Montenegro. We were hopeless and needed a colossal slice of luck to come through that as winners. 4-1 was a ridiculous result. Last night, on the other hand, was a revelation. Simple, high tempo, attacking football. The kind of football England should always have been playing. We're shyte at tactics and clever formations, we can't defend that well, but we can load the box, get it wide and create chances, even if that does risk leaving us wide open at the back. Hopefully Woy has dismissed some of the accusations of being boring and negative. Now he needs to throw off the shackles for good, convince the team they have nothing to lose, and actually give us something to shout about and enjoy watching - and frankly, who cares if that's just three games. Have a go and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 We're currently ranked 17th in the world, not 4th. We'll be in pot 2. We're up to 10th as of tommorow, though Switzerland are going to be seeded in 7th??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 1 Spain 1513 pts; 2 Germany 1311; 3 Argentina 1266; 4 Colombia 1178; 5 Belgium 1175; 6 Uruguay 1164; 7 Switzerland 1138; 8= Italy 1136; 8= Holland 1136; 10 England 1080; 11 Brazil 1078 So you have Netherlands, dropped 2 points +29 goal difference, 2010 World Cup Finalists who don't get seeded. Also Italy who have been in the top 4 for quite a while and were Euro Finalists who also aren't seeded, then Switzerland?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 My understanding is the seeds are the top 8 sides in the world rankings that qualified for the WC (or 7 plus Brazil if Brazil aren't in the top 8). If Switzerland are 7 then they'd therefore be a top seed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 As I said, we all know the FIFA rankings are complete bollocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Last night I think Terry Butcher played himself onto the TV pundits' trip to Brazil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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