24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Listen up all you trendy lefties and blind labour voting sheep - you all have very short memories or are all on labour introduced benefits - it has just taken the coalition (Conservatives) five long years to get us out of the unholy mess that labour got us into in the first place. If you think voting labour is a good idea cast your mind back five years and then think again. Speaking of sheep...that's almost to the letter what Tory MPs have been told to say for the last five years. Baa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Speaking of sheep...that's almost to the letter what Tory MPs have been told to say for the last five years. Baa. The Tories would have you believe that Blair and Brown were solely responsible for the international financial crisis. And it's very convenient to excuse everything they've done with the 'we wouldn't have had to, if it wasn't for Labour' line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I could never vote Tory. Ever. After the last election, the same goes for the Lib Dems. I hope Clegg & Co get their arses kicked this time around and to see him lose his seat would be the icing on the cake. Unfortunately, in my constituency it's a straight fight between the Tories and the Lib Dems. I'd vote for either of Labour or SNP if one of them had a chance of winning. As it is, they don't, and so I think I'll be voting SNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shorelatic Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 It wasn't the 'international financial crisis' that made Brown plunge us into deeper debt than we have ever been in before and spend recklessly on flagship projects we could never pay for. I assume the majority of you work so if you want to pay more in taxes again you carry on voting labour Baaaaa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 The Tories would have you believe that Blair and Brown were solely responsible for the international financial crisis. And it's very convenient to excuse everything they've done with the 'we wouldn't have had to, if it wasn't for Labour' line.There's an element of truth in this. The UK government wasn't unique in participating in the inflationary boom which lead to the financial crisis and it would have hit whoever was in power. It is fair though to point out that the aftermath was worse because of the situation pre crisis. Taking into account hidden spending such as unfunded pension schemes and PFI contracts the last government was running a deficit of 5% whilst raking in taxes from said inflationary boom. It's not hard to see that panning out badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 It wasn't the 'international financial crisis' that made Brown plunge us into deeper debt than we have ever been in before and spend recklessly on flagship projects we could never pay for. I assume the majority of you work so if you want to pay more in taxes again you carry on voting labour Baaaaa Those pesky flagship projects like hospitals, schools, surestart centres, doctors surgeries... that had been chronically underfunded during 18 years of tory rule! They give out the crap about Labour "Not repairing the roof when the sun was shining." :censored: the roof, Labour had to repair the pissing walls that the tories had spent 18 years knocking down! Of course Labour had to spend money here! Money that the Tories themselves were committed to and at times complained that Labour weren't spending enough on! Then we get to cause of the debt, the financial crisis, who's seeds were sown under the tories when the financial markets were de-regulated - note the word, de - meaning to undo and regulate - meaning control - a de-regulation that Labour didn't correct in Government and must shoulder some blame but were also harangued by the tories for not de-regulating further! So if the tories had been in government in the mid 2000s we would have seen just as high, if not higher spending but also weaker regulations on the financial sector meaning the crash would likely have been harder and deeper! When it actually hit, Labour used money they then borrowed to prevent further collapses and likely worse effects leading to the financial problems we have today. As the crash hit, expected tax income dropped and increased the deficit, ok, I'll accept that this was an oversight by Labour, to count tax receipts before the chickens had hatched but without the crash (which started in the US under a Neo-Con administration similar to the Tories) the tax receipts would have been as predicted and the books balanced. After the crash Labour got the economy recovering again and handed over a fragile but growing economy which was then cut off by Gidiot's first emergency budget and we have been bumping along recession or climbing into growth slower than Gregan running in quicksand. And as for paying more tax, yes please. I like having my roads pothole free, having your kids educated, I'm not daft enough to have bred but I sure as hell want those that have been stupid enough to bring kids into this world to send them to brilliant schools where they will be able to unlock their unlimited abilities and achieve whatever they are capable of doing. To have hospitals staffed by specialist health care professionals that are clean and efficient at restoring patients back to health without making profits for Tory party donors or at the beck and call of drug companies as deals are made on golf courses. And all the rest of that leftist claptrap that so many find abhorrent. We have to share this planet with everyone on it, can we not please make it a whole lot better for each and every one on it? Give me windmills in areas where there is wind, tidal where there are tides, it will probably mean that the natural beauty postcard industry takes a hit but that's a price I'll pay. The closest we have to socialism and collectivism on the ballot paper with a chance of winning is a watered down wishy washy form called the Labour party, full of bad eggs, crooks and imbeciles, just like all other parties but they at least pay lip service to what was once known as Clause 4 and the rest of the founding principles of the Labour movement. And at the moment, that's good enough for me to put the X next to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shorelatic Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 But don't forget - some of us do not want socialism or collectivism - it's just another form of dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 But don't forget - some of us do not want socialism or collectivism - it's just another form of dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator. In my perfect world...there'd be a gang of goons to take dissenters from the collective off to the forest for corrective education by means of the repeated application of a rubber hose to the soles of feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 But don't forget - some of us do not want socialism or collectivism - it's just another form of dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator. I'd like real Socialism, nobody seems to offer it though. So called Socialism seems to now just mean "hating the rich" & not much else ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 But don't forget - some of us do not want socialism or collectivism - it's just another form of dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator. And some of us see it as lifting everyone up... ;) So let's agree to disagree. And whilst we're at it for the good of the thread and this goes for all posters and all sides of the debate, the clowns who have put themselves up for election are fair game for insults and derision but howsabout we lay off the name-calling and derision of the voters? I could quite happily write that Tory/UKIP voters are selfish, deluded fools who are too dim to see past the end of their self centred nose and it could be typed back that Labour/Green/Raving Monster Looney voters are brainless sheep just voting the way their pit-going forefathers voted since year dot whilst waiting for their next benefit payment or government non-job wage... But it would probably be better if we didn't? Politics threads on here are usually pretty good, there are some good minds on here that don't need to resort to name-calling. Apart from that Leeslover :censored:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Those pesky flagship projects like hospitals, schools, surestart centres, doctors surgeries... that had been chronically underfunded during 18 years of tory rule! They give out the crap about Labour "Not repairing the roof when the sun was shining." :censored: the roof, Labour had to repair the pissing walls that the tories had spent 18 years knocking down! Of course Labour had to spend money here! Money that the Tories themselves were committed to and at times complained that Labour weren't spending enough on! Then we get to cause of the debt, the financial crisis, who's seeds were sown under the tories when the financial markets were de-regulated - note the word, de - meaning to undo and regulate - meaning control - a de-regulation that Labour didn't correct in Government and must shoulder some blame but were also harangued by the tories for not de-regulating further! So if the tories had been in government in the mid 2000s we would have seen just as high, if not higher spending but also weaker regulations on the financial sector meaning the crash would likely have been harder and deeper! When it actually hit, Labour used money they then borrowed to prevent further collapses and likely worse effects leading to the financial problems we have today. As the crash hit, expected tax income dropped and increased the deficit, ok, I'll accept that this was an oversight by Labour, to count tax receipts before the chickens had hatched but without the crash (which started in the US under a Neo-Con administration similar to the Tories) the tax receipts would have been as predicted and the books balanced. After the crash Labour got the economy recovering again and handed over a fragile but growing economy which was then cut off by Gidiot's first emergency budget and we have been bumping along recession or climbing into growth slower than Gregan running in quicksand. And as for paying more tax, yes please. I like having my roads pothole free, having your kids educated, I'm not daft enough to have bred but I sure as hell want those that have been stupid enough to bring kids into this world to send them to brilliant schools where they will be able to unlock their unlimited abilities and achieve whatever they are capable of doing. To have hospitals staffed by specialist health care professionals that are clean and efficient at restoring patients back to health without making profits for Tory party donors or at the beck and call of drug companies as deals are made on golf courses. And all the rest of that leftist claptrap that so many find abhorrent. We have to share this planet with everyone on it, can we not please make it a whole lot better for each and every one on it? Give me windmills in areas where there is wind, tidal where there are tides, it will probably mean that the natural beauty postcard industry takes a hit but that's a price I'll pay. The closest we have to socialism and collectivism on the ballot paper with a chance of winning is a watered down wishy washy form called the Labour party, full of bad eggs, crooks and imbeciles, just like all other parties but they at least pay lip service to what was once known as Clause 4 and the rest of the founding principles of the Labour movement. And at the moment, that's good enough for me to put the X next to. That's all a very rosy view - they've left us in a mess every time they've been in power. Every time. To suggest it was all just bad luck & not their fault this latest time seems a bit kind considering..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 That's all a very rosy view - they've left us in a mess every time they've been in power. Every time. To suggest it was all just bad luck & not their fault this latest time seems a bit kind considering..... A popular myth: http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/myth-cleaning-up-labours-mess.html https://skwalker1964.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/the-myth-of-the-inherited-mess-52/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_debt And this is an interesting look at recent history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_National_Debt.svg Debt between 1999 (I'm discounting the years 97-99 as Labour were committed to the Tory spending plans for those years) and 2007, the year the credit crunch hit, the debt was less than in 97 when Labour took over! There were three recessions between 1979 and 1997 alone! I hardly see how anyone can call the Tories financial record a good one? They may have the balls to slash spending in the short term but there are always long term effects, even Tebbit now says that his governments forgot the social effects of their policies and he regrets this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shorelatic Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Talk about causing an argument in an empty house - just for the record whilst I don't want to be a socialist/communist etc. neither do I want to be a Manure Fan or any Premier Greed club come to think of it. We may all differ from a political angle but at least we all have one thing in common - a love for everything OAFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Talk about causing an argument in an empty house - just for the record whilst I don't want to be a socialist/communist etc. neither do I want to be a Manure Fan or any Premier Greed club come to think of it. We may all differ from a political angle but at least we all have one thing in common - a love for everything OAFC. You've not been in a match thread after we've lost then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 And some of us see it as lifting everyone up... ;) So let's agree to disagree. And whilst we're at it for the good of the thread and this goes for all posters and all sides of the debate, the clowns who have put themselves up for election are fair game for insults and derision but howsabout we lay off the name-calling and derision of the voters? I could quite happily write that Tory/UKIP voters are selfish, deluded fools who are too dim to see past the end of their self centred nose and it could be typed back that Labour/Green/Raving Monster Looney voters are brainless sheep just voting the way their pit-going forefathers voted since year dot whilst waiting for their next benefit payment or government non-job wage... But it would probably be better if we didn't? Politics threads on here are usually pretty good, there are some good minds on here that don't need to resort to name-calling. Apart from that Leeslover :censored:. As I was reading your post I had already made my mind up to reply asking if I was still on to call Mr Tulsehill one. I see that I need to adjust my aim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 As I was reading your post I had already made my mind up to reply asking if I was still on to call Mr Tulsehill one. I see that I need to adjust my aim. Too slow Daddio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Speaking of them, Cleggers is polling 2 points behind for his seat. Quite looking forward to seeing him cry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Speaking of them, Cleggers is polling 2 points behind for his seat. Quite looking forward to seeing him cry. Me too. I love the fact that the only 'celebrity' he's been able to wheel out didn't even know the name of the party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Me too. I love the fact that the only 'celebrity' he's been able to wheel out didn't even know the name of the party. Nonsense! Next you'll be telling me that Nick Leg isn't the Leader of the Liberal Democats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 After Jim Dobbin passed away, our local by-election was a close run affair. Too close. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/10/labour-scrapes-byelection-victory-ukip-heywood-middleton I'll have to vote Labour as a vote against UKIP, but looking at the calculators - could there be a possibility of a Labour coallition government with the SNP? I was fully behind the YES campaign, however the Scots had their chance of government and democratically decided against it - SNP ministers in Downing Street would be worse for Britain in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) After Jim Dobbin passed away, our local by-election was a close run affair. Too close. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/10/labour-scrapes-byelection-victory-ukip-heywood-middleton I'll have to vote Labour as a vote against UKIP, but looking at the calculators - could there be a possibility of a Labour coallition government with the SNP? I was fully behind the YES campaign, however the Scots had their chance of government and democratically decided against it - SNP ministers in Downing Street would be worse for Britain in my opinion. Would have probably been closer if Farage hadn't spent his last day in the area almost entirely in my local pub. Edited April 1, 2015 by rudemedic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 could we have a poll for who we WOULDNT vote for could be interesting to compare the two ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I'm predicting a minority Tory government with no formal coalition agreement. And another general election in October with a Tory majority of 5 seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'm predicting a minority Tory government with no formal coalition agreement. And another general election in October with a Tory majority of 5 seats. I don't think you're far wrong, but the mechanics of calling a new election are trickier than they used to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 I don't think you're far wrong, but the mechanics of calling a new election are trickier than they used to be Very, very tricky. Trickier than even I had realised. The Clerk of the House of Commons (I always go straight to the top experts) says even if they repeal the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, they'll have to replace it with something else before anyone can call an election. Getting rid of the new system (the Act) does not mean that things revert to the old one (prerogative). I'm predicting a Labour minority Government, with an SNP-backed confidence and supply arrangement. I'm :censored:ed if I know though. The press and media show confidence on the part of the Tories. The faces of Tory MPs on Budget day didn't strike me as confident. The ones in marginals looked thoroughly miserable, and they'd be the ones to know if things weren't quite as people are saying. Another thing is Cameron launching his campaign with cheap shots at Miliband. That's not the campaign start you'd expect from a confident Prime Minister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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