Magister Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 What are the financial advantages of being in league 1 to league 2? Presumably league 1 get more TV money? Prize money greater? Lower wages in league 2 I am just guessing. Does anybody have a reasonable estimate of the financial implications for a club which gets relegated from league 1 to league 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) Lower gate receipts Lower prize money Lower commercial income (sponsorship deals for the club, players, etc) Lower media receipts (including share of TV rights) Lower income from player sales Lower solidarity payments (not sure if that is the same as the TV rights share) Edited January 20, 2016 by Crusoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Lower gate receipts Lower prize money Lower commercial income (sponsorship deals for the club, players, etc) Lower media receipts (including share of TV rights) Lower income from player sales Lower solidarity payments (not sure if that is the same as the TV rights share) Also 55% of turnover to be spent on wages rather than 60% in L1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 Fair enough. Does bottom of league 1 get more prize money than champions of League 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jun/02/parachute-payments-clubs-relegated-premier-league?INTCMP=sfl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_blue Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Don't care...we don't need to know we're staying up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 So league 2 clubs get £120k less in payments........a top of the head sum suggests that is the equivalent of 275 extra fans at each home game? Would we get 275 more at top of league 2 vis a vis bottom league 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 The main problem for us should we get relegated is that it's virtually L2 south these days. And if you think about the OEC next season, Johnny Corporate will love all the local fixtures (which will likely include Bolton) but trying to sell a box for Crawley at home on a Tuesday night is a more difficult job! I would imagine all the budgeting around the new stand was based around us keeping our L1 status, it could have a dramatic effect dropping to L2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Valentine Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Don't care...we don't need to know we're staying up! I like your optimism, but I think you might be in the minority? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 So league 2 clubs get £120k less in payments........a top of the head sum suggests that is the equivalent of 275 extra fans at each home game? Would we get 275 more at top of league 2 vis a vis bottom league 1 - Why do you assume we'd be top? - Only needing 275 more assumes nobody stops going after relegation - unlikely - There would be less revenue per ticket (unless there was an insane pricing decision, which would likely drive more away) - That gap in payments would probably be small beer compared to the loss of sponsorship income I can't see any compelling reason to think relegation would somehow have a silver lining or do anything other than hammer another nail into the coffin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 I am assuming nothing! I hope the club is doing the same thing only in a more sophisicated way.....ie business modelling to inform decision making. Eg is the return on a January investment worth the risk etc.... should the return of the investment be expected over 6 months or 18 months....does an investment make business sense To make decisions ignoring the distinct possibility of relegation anyway is close to saying....all on black? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I am assuming nothing! I hope the club is doing the same thing only in a more sophisicated way.....ie business modelling to inform decision making. Eg is the return on a January investment worth the risk etc.... should the return of the investment be expected over 6 months or 18 months....does an investment make business sense To make decisions ignoring the distinct possibility of relegation anyway is close to saying....all on black? Can't argue with any of that. I just hope they're that clearsighted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Can't argue with any of that. I just hope they're that clearsighted. Which neatly answers the question of exactly why it is likely to prove extremely damaging should we drop down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 The main problem for us should we get relegated is that it's virtually L2 south these days. And if you think about the OEC next season, Johnny Corporate will love all the local fixtures (which will likely include Bolton) but trying to sell a box for Crawley at home on a Tuesday night is a more difficult job! I would imagine all the budgeting around the new stand was based around us keeping our L1 status, it could have a dramatic effect dropping to L2. ^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^ Saved me pointing out how massively detrimental to off-the-pitch relegation will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 League 1 next year will be a great local league. Bolton are now certs and even Rovers could get dragged in. Be awful to miss out on the attendance revenue next season that league 1 guarantees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 We said the same about attendance revenues this season and they will be much the same as last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 We said the same about attendance revenues this season and they will be much the same as last. Have you seen the position we are in in, in the League...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 This year has been one thing after another though. A decent (normal) year in this league next year with the teams that will be in the league would see a few hundred on that average no doubt. Dropping would see AT LEAST a few hundred off it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 This year has been one thing after another though. A decent (normal) year in this league next year with the teams that will be in the league would see a few hundred on that average no doubt. Dropping would see AT LEAST a few hundred off it. Did Rochdale, Southend, Bury all have lower crowds in League 2 then? Bet theres little in it, it depends if we had success if we went down any success would see crowds rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Did Rochdale, Southend, Bury all have lower crowds in League 2 then? Bet theres little in it, it depends if we had success if we went down any success would see crowds rise. There seems to be quite a lot in it actually. This is average for each season. The caveat for this season it is obviously not complete. 09/10...Promoted...79,189...3,443... 10/11......................81,351...2,162...3,537.......2.7% 11/12...Relegated...71,507..-9,844...3,109….-12.1%... 12/13......................56,097..-15,410..2,439…-21.6% 13/14 Promoted….66,700…10,60….2,900…18.9% 14/15......................76,107…9,407….3,309…14.1% 15/16......................74,175...-1,932….3,225….-2.5% At £407 per season ticket for Adults that would be £160,000 in season ticket alone the year they dropped (11/12) or at £297 for Concession would be almost £120,000. Some, arguably more if seaon tickets remained stable, would be Pay on the Day tickets. The actual would be somewhere in the middle I suspect. I think £150,000 in tickets alone is a fair estimate. Edited January 21, 2016 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 So I've looked at the numbers too (beat me to it Singe) and it's not quite as I'd expected. I took the last 12 clubs relegated from L1 to L2 (last 3 seasons). Looked at change in attendance. Actually averaged out at 104%, i.e. attendances went up on average 4% in the first season in L2. At a quick glance it doesn't seem to be related to how well you do in that season either - the biggest rises were Portsmouth (finished 13th), Scunthorpe (2nd), Bury (12th), Stevenage (6th) and Orient this season (11th). I tried looking at what happens if you don't go up, but there's not enough data - only 5 out of 8 clubs made it to L2 into a second season (have to exclude the 4 who went down last year). L1 att L2 Y1 Change Posn L2 Y2 Change Posn L2 Y3 Change Posn Scunth 3465 4013 116% 2 Bury 2749 3139 114% 12 3774 137% 3 Hartle 3613 3723 103% 19 3736 103% 22 3803 105% 21 Portsm 12232 15458 126% 13 15242 125% 16 16046 131% 5 Tranm 5113 5192 102% 24 Carlis 4243 4376 103% 20 4735 112% 10 Shrews 5581 5343 96% 2 Steven 2964 3191 108% 6 3275 110% 19 Notts 5351 5193 97% 16 Crawl 2709 2447 90% 15 Leyton 5042 5433 108% 11 Yeovil 4346 3598 83% 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I'm off to learn how to kiss a girl next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magister Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 You will still be interested is stats for much longer though! Really interesting findings and certainly throws a spanner in the relegation would be the worst thing in the world mantra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 So I've looked at the numbers too (beat me to it Singe) and it's not quite as I'd expected. I took the last 12 clubs relegated from L1 to L2 (last 3 seasons). Looked at change in attendance. Actually averaged out at 104%, i.e. attendances went up on average 4% in the first season in L2. At a quick glance it doesn't seem to be related to how well you do in that season either - the biggest rises were Portsmouth (finished 13th), Scunthorpe (2nd), Bury (12th), Stevenage (6th) and Orient this season (11th). I tried looking at what happens if you don't go up, but there's not enough data - only 5 out of 8 clubs made it to L2 into a second season (have to exclude the 4 who went down last year). L1 att L2 Y1 Change Posn L2 Y2 Change Posn L2 Y3 Change Posn Scunth 3465 4013 116% 2 Bury 2749 3139 114% 12 3774 137% 3 Hartle 3613 3723 103% 19 3736 103% 22 3803 105% 21 Portsm 12232 15458 126% 13 15242 125% 16 16046 131% 5 Tranm 5113 5192 102% 24 Carlis 4243 4376 103% 20 4735 112% 10 Shrews 5581 5343 96% 2 Steven 2964 3191 108% 6 3275 110% 19 Notts 5351 5193 97% 16 Crawl 2709 2447 90% 15 Leyton 5042 5433 108% 11 Yeovil 4346 3598 83% 23 How do Tranmere compare in the Conference now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 4,991 apparently. About 98% of what they got in L1. Although I can't see how much is home vs away fans, i.e. do they get bigger away followings visiting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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