deyres42 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Whether you agree with the policies or not think they've played a blinder with the leak, Maybot and co are going (or they should if the media were doing their job properly) to have to justify why the policies are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suffolkkev Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Seems to be a sham election so far. An election is a decision made by the public. Accurate and honest (i.e. fair) information is needed otherwise we, the country, make poor decisions. All I've seen so far on TV is people expressing concern over Corbyn. Where is the concern over May? She talks about a "free" Press but never about "a free and fair" Press. As Home Secretary (personal responsibility for Immigration) - her legacy was RECORD immigration. Immigration came down after Brexit - which she opposed! (Dodgy judgement). Since 2010 the Tories have generated more Debt than all previous Labour Governments. The press (including BBC/ITV) still present debt as "the Deficit" which completely hides the Debt issue. Labour ended with a high deficit because of the collapse of private banking system. "The Big Short" proves the crisis was not just British and was caused by greed in Private Enterprise. The massive fines on Banks since the crisis tell us that many of the regulation in place were ignored. Replace "the State" with "the Press" and 1984 seems remarkably accurate. Corbyn wont be PM so why isn't attention given to Theresa May? Incompetitent Press and/or Conspiracy? You decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 1 hour ago, deyres42 said: Whether you agree with the policies or not think they've played a blinder with the leak, Maybot and co are going (or they should if the media were doing their job properly) to have to justify why the policies are wrong. The media do their job properly. The latest is falling for David Davis (yes I too thought that he had retired years ago!) accusing the EEC of trying to get rid of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 34 minutes ago, suffolkkev said: Seems to be a sham election so far. An election is a decision made by the public. Accurate and honest (i.e. fair) information is needed otherwise we, the country, make poor decisions. All I've seen so far on TV is people expressing concern over Corbyn. Where is the concern over May? She talks about a "free" Press but never about "a free and fair" Press. As Home Secretary (personal responsibility for Immigration) - her legacy was RECORD immigration. Immigration came down after Brexit - which she opposed! (Dodgy judgement). Since 2010 the Tories have generated more Debt than all previous Labour Governments. The press (including BBC/ITV) still present debt as "the Deficit" which completely hides the Debt issue. Labour ended with a high deficit because of the collapse of private banking system. "The Big Short" proves the crisis was not just British and was caused by greed in Private Enterprise. The massive fines on Banks since the crisis tell us that many of the regulation in place were ignored. Replace "the State" with "the Press" and 1984 seems remarkably accurate. Corbyn wont be PM so why isn't attention given to Theresa May? Incompetitent Press and/or Conspiracy? You decide. Sad fact that the rigght wing have got the press sown up. What is strange is that the newspapers sold have halved, so their influence should be substantially on the wane, yet still the agenda and also the aspertions they cast are dictated by them. I'm genuinely puzzled by this influence they still have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 12 hours ago, blueatheart said: Really? I'm not so sure. The costs in nationalising so many services would be astronomical and that's without breaking any contracts. Trouble is, the cost of Brexit is astonomical too. Doubt we can afford to nationalise and pay for Brexit. Especially a hard Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Just now, singe said: Trouble is, the cost of Brexit is astonomical too. Doubt we can afford to nationalise and pay for Brexit. Especially a hard Brexit. Yeah but we'll save billions by scrapping trident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, blueatheart said: Yeah but we'll save billions by scrapping trident. I tend to agree, but there are no reliable figures for the numbers of direct and indirect jobs and their cost. That has to be factored in. Edited May 12, 2017 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Just now, singe said: I tend to agree, but there are no figures for the numbers of direct and indirect jobs and their cost. That has to be factored in. I don't think we can afford to scrap trident. If we go down that route, we'll end up beholden to the least worst global super power. Who knows what'll happen in the future? Putin can't go on for ever. That said, on the labour side we're talking about a guy who held a minutes silences in honour of IRA terrorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 47 minutes ago, suffolkkev said: Seems to be a sham election so far. Agree. We are firmly in the soundbite era now. Truly awful, and appalling decitions made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 On 20/04/2017 at 11:23 AM, singe said: Here is a very interesting quiz/survey that you enter your views and it shows which party you are most aligned with, quite often with some surprising results: Well worth a look. https://uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz Did anyone else take this quiz? I think the results will surpise you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, blueatheart said: I don't think we can afford to scrap trident. If we go down that route, we'll end up beholden to the least worst global super power. Who knows what'll happen in the future? Putin can't go on for ever. Fairly sure we're already beholden to the least worst global superpower and will remain so, Trident or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, blueatheart said: I don't think we can afford to scrap trident. If we go down that route, we'll end up beholden to the least worst global super power. Who knows what'll happen in the future? Putin can't go on for ever. That said, on the labour side we're talking about a guy who held a minutes silences in honour of IRA terrorists. 1 minute ago, Crusoe said: Fairly sure we're already beholden to the least worst global superpower and will remain so, Trident or not. For me, our nuclear deterent does not seem to have done much deterring. ISIS certaintly are not scarred, because they know we are almost certaintly never going to use it on a whole area. I don't think wars are played out at sea much, it seems bombing is the way to go. Also we need to spend more combatting the couple of attacker strikes like the Westminster attacks. At the moment, we are not even beholden to the least worst, it's to Russia's newest subserviant nation.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 3 hours ago, singe said: For me, our nuclear deterent does not seem to have done much deterring. ISIS certaintly are not scarred, because they know we are almost certaintly never going to use it on a whole area. I don't think wars are played out at sea much, it seems bombing is the way to go. Also we need to spend more combatting the couple of attacker strikes like the Westminster attacks. At the moment, we are not even beholden to the least worst, it's to Russia's newest subserviant nation.... It's primarily supposed to be a deterrent against other nuclear nations being able to nuke us i.e. if you fire a missile at us, we're taking you down with us. Therefore it's had a 100% success rate up to now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, jimsleftfoot said: It's primarily supposed to be a deterrent against other nuclear nations being able to nuke us i.e. if you fire a missile at us, we're taking you down with us. Therefore it's had a 100% success rate up to now. That doesn't follow. There could be lots of reasons we haven't been nuked. The deterrent effect of having our own nuclear weapons is only one possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) Or, to put it another way, nobody's nuked Ireland either, so their policy of not having nuclear weapons has also been 100% effective, and a lot cheaper. Edited May 12, 2017 by Crusoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 29 minutes ago, Crusoe said: Or, to put it another way, nobody's nuked Ireland either, so their policy of not having nuclear weapons has also been 100% effective, and a lot cheaper. Ireland doesn't piss people off or generally enter wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 16 minutes ago, blueatheart said: Ireland doesn't piss people off or generally enter wars. Well, we haven't entered many wars against people with nukes either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Crusoe said: Well, we haven't entered many wars against people with nukes either. What an excellent deterrent it is then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Just now, blueatheart said: What an excellent deterrent it is then! Joking aside, that's my point - we don't know if it did, or if it was for any one of a number of other reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 While we're on the defence angle, I wonder if the cyberattacks against NHS hospitals this afternoon will have any impact on debates about where money should be spent? I would be surprised if lives aren't lost today as a result of what's happening. Really horrible stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Total of the eventual cost of Labour pension plan from their manifesto. Just the 300 billion of your British pounds. No biggie.... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Crusoe said: That doesn't follow. There could be lots of reasons we haven't been nuked. The deterrent effect of having our own nuclear weapons is only one possibility. I agree there here could be lots of reasons. Doesn't matter, that is the one intention and it has been successful. Arguably Ireland doesn't need nukes as GB, US and France all have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 hours ago, jimsleftfoot said: I agree there here could be lots of reasons. Doesn't matter, that is the one intention and it has been successful. Arguably Ireland doesn't need nukes as GB, US and France all have them. To be fair, that could be a reason for us not having them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I'm thinking of the Yes, Prime Minister where Sir Humphrey has to explain that we don't have nukes to guard against the Russians, it's the French Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 hours ago, kowenicki said: Total of the eventual cost of Labour pension plan from their manifesto. Just the 300 billion of your British pounds. No biggie.... ? Jackpot. No doubt you've all seen the flowchart about being a Tory voter and a selfish bastard. Well I'm surely you'll also have seen the one where labour are guaranteed to fuck up the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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