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6 hours ago, League one forever said:

Right.

 

I want to know how people feel about how he’s done in the 31 games he’s had. An for all those that jump on ‘31 games, wtf is that to judge’ We all made a judgement on Kelly, Robinson, and Dunn, far quicker. So I think it’s a fair amount time to look at his performance. 

 

Hes taken 36 points from 31 games. 

 

Im interested in things HE CAN AFFECT. Team selection, tactics, man management, player recruitment. (The ones he could pick, which he had plenty of scope for) 

 

Im not interested in, the training facilities are shit,  he can’t have all his own players, the takeover. This man is not stupid. An to say these things are surprise to him or he didn’t have his eyes wide open when he took the job, is insulting his intelligence. 

 

Personally, I’m very 50/50. I think we flatter to deceive. If we stay up, and Wellens keeps the job, I honestly wouldn’t go into next season with any great hope. As he’s shown so far, he can’t organise a defence. How many times do we a goal down, start slowly, or concede a couple without tactical change. Having said that I think we’d be ok for our usual 17th, because he’d have us scoring a few. 

 

So, we bob along watching a few more entertaining games, and finish 17th.

 

Terrific. Can’t wait. 

 

 

"Personally, I’m very 50/50." ?

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No one has suggested that by wanting to keep Wellens they want to keep the current form. Or that they’re accepting mediocrity. Or defending bang average.    No one has called Wellens a mirac

Shez had less backing? Who brought in Byrne, Kean, Doyle? Who had the pre season to put the squad together? Shez left us this current situation cut adrift at the bottom. He worked miracles previous ye

Except 3 months wasn't anywhere near long enough to judge any of those managers.   Just because the previous owner repeatedly made some ridiculous decisions doesn't make it an appropriate po

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31 games is not much to judge on.

The point about all the takeover as a distraction is fair. 

That said, AL has backed Wellens very strongly and when I look at our squad it should be doing better than it is. For me, our squad is better than Plymouth, Bristol, Gillingham and a good few others that are way ahead of us.

On the other hand, should Wellens get sacked because other managers overachieve?

He’s not done a great job, but it’s not the worst job for someone who is learning the job and managing at a difficult time for the club- training must be an odd place, with Omrani, Mouache and the other unpronounceables being around but not really being part of it all.

Wellens must have some wherewithal to have convinced AL to sign Byrne, Doyle & Pringle rather than put in more foreign lads, but it’s fair to think that he could have done a better job with those players once he’d got them in.

I’m 50/50

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He deserves pre-season if he keeps us up. A big upheaval of this squad is needed if we want to challenge at the right end of the league next season, too many of them are not good enough and he needs to stop playing our best players out of position. I’d like to see Bryan brought back to play in midfield, Ripley back on loan, at least 2 new wide players and a couple of new centre-backs. 

 

If we go into the new season with Fane still getting a game,  and Jack Byrne playing on the right, I’d sack him after the opening weekend... 

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For once, I'm taking the glass-half-full approach to the manager:

 

- He's shown he can win well

- He's shown he can win ugly

- He's shown he can turn things around when going through a bad patch

- He plays reasonable football

 

I'm not sure what else we're looking for in a rookie (and we'll only get another rookie if it's not Wellens...).  Give him the summer to bring some more of his own players in (paying particular attention to improving the defence..) and lets see what happens, I say...

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6 hours ago, League one forever said:

But 3 months was long enough for Kelly, Dunn, and Robinson. 

 

I don’t get why you never balance your argument? You dont debate his record, his tactics, his team selection. 

 

I think you and others read posts like mine, an read what you want to see. ‘Oh, another wellens out post’

 

I’ve not called for him to be sacked. Once. 

 

But can we talk about his record, without unnecessarily leaping to his defence about how long he’s had the job? 

Except 3 months wasn't anywhere near long enough to judge any of those managers.

 

Just because the previous owner repeatedly made some ridiculous decisions doesn't make it an appropriate policy going forward.

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Losing Doyle when we were flying long gaps in playing games when we were playing well the weather a shit pitch and injuries haven't helped im still 50/50 but the incredible football we were playing before everything I said happened id give him a proper pre-season and see what him and AL can do im not to sure on the assistant..

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6 hours ago, League one forever said:

I totally agree the style is better, but where are we????

 

Robinson- awful to watch. Roughly 1 point a game.

 

wellens - better to watch. Roughly 1 point per game.

 

He’s had 31 games. Is that enough for you to give an honest assesmemt of his performance? 

 

Or is it players fault up until now??? Really??? 

 

When does he take responsibility? 

 

60 games?

 

90 games? 

 

 

 

Wait a minute.

 

Robinson: W3 D10 L11 = 19 points from 24 games.

Wellens: W10 D11 L10 = 41 points from 31 games.

 

Both roughly a point a game??  I've got to call you out on that one.

 

Secondly, now is not the time to wonder if we have the right manager or not.  A new manager would make pretty much zero positive impact and is much more likely to have a negative one.

 

If we go down from here then we have every right to be calling for his head because we should still survive from the position we are in, but not while we have a reasonable chance of surviving.

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15 minutes ago, JoeP said:

For once, I'm taking the glass-half-full approach to the manager:

 

- He's shown he can win well

- He's shown he can win ugly

- He's shown he can turn things around when going through a bad patch

- He plays reasonable football

 

I'm not sure what else we're looking for in a rookie (and we'll only get another rookie if it's not Wellens...).  Give him the summer to bring some more of his own players in (paying particular attention to improving the defence..) and lets see what happens, I say...

 

He is a rookie manager - that’s not in dispute. 

He has made mistakes - that’s not in dispute.

However, as you say above, he has won games and he has turned games around and at times the play is good.

 

We all have our differing views as to who should start and in which position - start with Byrne in central midfield, Holloway up front with Doyle and play with a winger would be my approach. We all have our differing views as to the style of play we want to see from our team.

 

The key factor for me is whether we see progress in his management - this means learning from his mistakes and getting the best out of his squad, whatever their limitations. And to demonstrate that he needs time - time that is typically not afforded to a manager in a results driven world.

And that for me is where the crux of this question really sits; namely should we give Wellens the time to show that he can take us forward as a club and get us challenging at the top end of the table?

 

My view is that he has done a reasonable job so far. I would give him more time to show that he can become a better manager but when it comes down to it, the final decision rests with Abdallah, himself a rookie in this mad footballing world ?

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How many times do people want to change  a manager. A new manager comes in  and inherits  players  with up to possibly 2 or 3  years left on their contracts  he might not want  these players so they either don’t play  and sit out the remainder of their contract or the club pays them off  and they go and sign for someone else  both of which comes out of the budget  I feel to many clubs  don’t give a manager long enough  and we have been a prime example over the past god knows how many years  of chopping and changing.  I say give him  a chance next season   

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3 minutes ago, Handsy said:

How many times do people want to change  a manager. A new manager comes in  and inherits  players  with up to possibly 2 or 3  years left on their contracts  he might not want  these players so they either don’t play  and sit out the remainder of their contract or the club pays them off  and they go and sign for someone else  both of which comes out of the budget  I feel to many clubs  don’t give a manager long enough  and we have been a prime example over the past god knows how many years  of chopping and changing.  I say give him  a chance next season   

Which manager haven’t we given long enough?

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9 minutes ago, Handsy said:

Well John Sheridan  this last time round  for one 

I’d have liked him to stay longer but Shez didn’t want to carry on, we haven’t sacked anybody too early imo.

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1 hour ago, Latics and England said:

Except 3 months wasn't anywhere near long enough to judge any of those managers.

 

Just because the previous owner repeatedly made some ridiculous decisions doesn't make it an appropriate policy going forward.

Agreed. But your talking about an owners ability to appoint the right man. You could argue they should never have the job, but they all wanted it. . Etc. 

 

Managers don’t get sacked because there doing a good job. 

In the short space of time there were at the club. The results and football were largely dire. Hence they got sacked. 

 

Which would you have kept? Honestly? 

 

It’s very different with wellens, because when we’re good, we are terrific. However it tends to be for 1 half, or half hour or even 10 minutes spells. Signs of progress for sure. But you can’t ignore how bad we are at the back. 

 

 

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Agreed the centre back situation does need addressing  Edmundson looks promising I can see Stott and Wilson being released Clarke will be paid off imo and Gerrard looks slow and unfit most of the time  also a good winger  req

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10 hours ago, League one forever said:

Right.

 

I want to know how people feel about how he’s done in the 31 games he’s had. An for all those that jump on ‘31 games, wtf is that to judge’ We all made a judgement on Kelly, Robinson, and Dunn, far quicker. So I think it’s a fair amount time to look at his performance. 

 

Hes taken 36 points from 31 games. 

 

Im interested in things HE CAN AFFECT. Team selection, tactics, man management, player recruitment. (The ones he could pick, which he had plenty of scope for) 

 

Im not interested in, the training facilities are shit,  he can’t have all his own players, the takeover. This man is not stupid. An to say these things are surprise to him or he didn’t have his eyes wide open when he took the job, is insulting his intelligence. 

 

Personally, I’m very 50/50. I think we flatter to deceive. If we stay up, and Wellens keeps the job, I honestly wouldn’t go into next season with any great hope. As he’s shown so far, he can’t organise a defence. How many times do we a goal down, start slowly, or concede a couple without tactical change. Having said that I think we’d be ok for our usual 17th, because he’d have us scoring a few. 

 

So, we bob along watching a few more entertaining games, and finish 17th.

 

Terrific. Can’t wait. 

 

 

 

 

Right lads I want you all to ignore every single contributing factor that may effect how a manager prepares his teams for games and then tell me what he actually does until we can all agree to sack another manager before he's completed a full season or had a transfer window.

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51 minutes ago, Handsy said:

Agreed the centre back situation does need addressing  Edmundson looks promising I can see Stott and Wilson being released Clarke will be paid off imo and Gerrard looks slow and unfit most of the time....

 

...it’s a shame Richie didn’t work on a CB solution before the transfer window shut. Someone like Matt Mills might’ve be the answer to help keep us up. Mr Lemsagam should give Richie a ticking off for not coming up with the idea.

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This might sound very harsh but what worries me most about Wellens is his character, or at least how I perceive it. Talking players and the squad down both in public and when he thinks it's private. Whinging about not being able to sign his pick of Championship players. Making excuses. We all know it's not been ideal but get on with surprising us with what you can make of it. I worry he'll find that harder to learn than tactical changes and effective substitutions.

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36 minutes ago, leeslover said:

This might sound very harsh but what worries me most about Wellens is his character, or at least how I perceive it. Talking players and the squad down both in public and when he thinks it's private. Whinging about not being able to sign his pick of Championship players. Making excuses. We all know it's not been ideal but get on with surprising us with what you can make of it. I worry he'll find that harder to learn than tactical changes and effective substitutions.

I don’t think it’s harsh. It’s a fair reflection of what’s happened. I think the point about not being able to sign championship players, is spot on. Like Mills for example- by all means go for him, I like the ambition. But don’t moan when he wants more than we can afford, (surprise surprise) and have a back up signing! One that maybe isn’t as good, but we can afford. 

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