Wellens.

[Kusunga_Is_God]

Games that we should have arguably won or at least got a point.

MK Dons 4-4 (a) 
Scunthorpe 2-3 (h) 
Wimbledon 0-0 (h) 
Gillingham 0-0 (a) 
Doncaster 1-1 (a)
Fleetwood 1-2 (h)
Bristol 1-1 (h)
Shrewsbury 0-1 (a)
Charlton 0-1 (a)
Posh 0-3 (a)
Plymouth 1-2 (h)
Oxford 0-0 (a)
Walsall 0-0 (a)

I've bolded the one's which I think are clear cut, the other ones are up for debate but it does show how many games where we have crafted our own downfall. The MK 4-4 was down to poor subs. Wimbledon and Gillingham 0-0's I still don't know how we didn't win those.

Charlton and Shrews were during the period without the loanees but both sides didn't offer much and we should have come away with at least a point and obviously I think we should have won the last two games.

Thoughts?

[League one forever]

28 minutes ago, Kusunga_Is_God said:

Games that we should have arguably won or at least got a point.

MK Dons 4-4 (a) 
Scunthorpe 2-3 (h) 
Wimbledon 0-0 (h) 
Gillingham 0-0 (a) 
Doncaster 1-1 (a)
Fleetwood 1-2 (h)
Bristol 1-1 (h)
Shrewsbury 0-1 (a)
Charlton 0-1 (a)
Posh 0-3 (a)
Plymouth 1-2 (h)
Oxford 0-0 (a)
Walsall 0-0 (a)

I've bolded the one's which I think are clear cut, the other ones are up for debate but it does show how many games where we have crafted our own downfall. The MK 4-4 was down to poor subs. Wimbledon and Gillingham 0-0's I still don't know how we didn't win those.

Charlton and Shrews were during the period without the loanees but both sides didn't offer much and we should have come away with at least a point and obviously I think we should have won the last two games.

Thoughts?

 

 

Ive said we should be doing a bit better, I’m disappointed we’re not in the clutch above us, with gills and the like. With relegation all but forgotten. Instead we’re staring down the barrel. 

 

He’s 5-6 points shy IMO. Doesn’t sound a lot, but could be the difference at the end of the season. Hopefully we have enough. 

[League one forever]

3 hours ago, deyres42 said:

Think there is a difference between want and expect.

 

All the shot data really only puts us a few places higher.

Is there? If i want to finish 1st. But expect to finish 17th, what’s the point?  What right minded fan would even contemplate going without the (blind) expectation of doing well. 

 

 

 A few places higher, would see us far nearer safety.

 

That’d be nice. 

[lookersstandandy]

4 hours ago, Lee Sinnott said:

But he hasn't. He wanted Mills - chairman wouldn't give him an extra year, Nazon turned up for training and Wellens was told there and then by Lemsagam that he was signing on loan, similar story with Zeus and Moimbe...

 

^This.... and when you consider the list of thrustee, Lemsagam’s record is iffy at best.

[lookersstandandy]

4 hours ago, pukka said:

 

If that's the case and I have no need to doubt it - it won't really matter who we put in. It will never be the manager's team.

 

....which is why I would like to understand want Lemsagam’s plan is.

[lookersstandandy]

3 hours ago, BP1960 said:

 

So despite having no say, he's regularly playing 2 out of the 3. One of whom most agree is far better than what we had. 

Seems like RW is managing ok to me. 

 

 

....one could argue he’s managing ok, despite it, not because of it....

[johnafoafc]

14 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

....which is why I would like to understand want Lemsagam’s plan is.

I said something similar at the the time the takeover was officially announced as completed. I said it’d be nice to hear what his plans or vision was but was told by a ?trust rep that I should be happy that the club has been taken over and there is a bright new future etc. Without any details.

[League one forever]

Maybe it’s a bit like the wolves model. Expect AL is the owner and agent. (Even though he’s not an agent. . )  The manager will just coach what’s he provided with.

[NewBlue]

5 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

And yet sacking the manager consistantly has lead to us going where exactly?

 

That arguement only holds up if changing the manager is something we havent tried before.

 

Also if you read what people are saying we all want better knowone has sat their saying we dont want better than 17th in league 1

 

 

I’d say chronic lack of investment has caused that, not sacking managers

[NewBlue]

2 hours ago, Kusunga_Is_God said:

Games that we should have arguably won or at least got a point.

MK Dons 4-4 (a) 
Scunthorpe 2-3 (h) 
Wimbledon 0-0 (h) 
Gillingham 0-0 (a) 
Doncaster 1-1 (a)
Fleetwood 1-2 (h)
Bristol 1-1 (h)
Shrewsbury 0-1 (a)
Charlton 0-1 (a)
Posh 0-3 (a)
Plymouth 1-2 (h)
Oxford 0-0 (a)
Walsall 0-0 (a)

I've bolded the one's which I think are clear cut, the other ones are up for debate but it does show how many games where we have crafted our own downfall. The MK 4-4 was down to poor subs. Wimbledon and Gillingham 0-0's I still don't know how we didn't win those.

Charlton and Shrews were during the period without the loanees but both sides didn't offer much and we should have come away with at least a point and obviously I think we should have won the last two games.

Thoughts?

 

We didn’t even come close to scoring away at Charlton. We were in their half a bit second half but that’s about it

[Midsblue]

I may have missed this but has there been any confirmation of AL's plan beyond this season regarding investment on the playing side?

 

He owns the club but none of the stands so he's not developing the ground unless of course he buys this from Blitz.  Therefore presumably his focus is solely on the field and remaining a sitting tenant at BP.

 

Regarding playing budget, presumably it'll be greater than under SC but to what level? In January we allegedly tabled a six-figure offer for Devante Cole.  I seriously doubt this and if so, it could have been £100,000 but with Wigan apparently signing him for £500,000+ then it's fair to say alternative offers would have been north of £250,000?  There was talk of other offers made too.

 

Also has anyone discovered if he's a sole investor or fronting a larger consortium or wealthy backer?

 

I personally think with backing, a pre-season under his belt and a decent, experienced assistant, Wellens will do well for us next season.  AL may have other ideas but will we grow or simply be a testing ground for overseas triallists?

 

[Buckshawlatic]

6 minutes ago, Midsblue said:

I may have missed this but has there been any confirmation of AL's plan beyond this season regarding investment on the playing side?

 

He owns the club but none of the stands so he's not developing the ground unless of course he buys this from Blitz.  Therefore presumably his focus is solely on the field and remaining a sitting tenant at BP.

 

Regarding playing budget, presumably it'll be greater than under SC but to what level? In January we allegedly tabled a six-figure offer for Devante Cole.  I seriously doubt this and if so, it could have been £100,000 but with Wigan apparently signing him for £500,000+ then it's fair to say alternative offers would have been north of £250,000?  There was talk of other offers made too.

 

Also has anyone discovered if he's a sole investor or fronting a larger consortium or wealthy backer?

 

I personally think with backing, a pre-season under his belt and a decent, experienced assistant, Wellens will do well for us next season.  AL may have other ideas but will we grow or simply be a testing ground for overseas triallists?

 

 

From what I understand he does own the stands (apart from the North) as they are part of the club. What he doesn’t own is the land they are built on. Maybe someone from the trust could clarify? 

[GlossopLatic]

40 minutes ago, NewBlue said:

 

I’d say chronic lack of investment has caused that, not sacking managers

 

It is, but the point is we keep sacking managers we get abit of new manager bounce it wears off then we end up back where we started.

 

Sometimes its the right decision Kelly Robinson Dunn all had to go when they did otherwise we would have gone down. Its not as desperate a situation as that so Id rather give Wellens some slack here. We should still stay up we've no excuse not too. If thats the case he should get the summer to rebuild. I doubt the recruitment is going to be all down to him but you would hope he would get a say.

 

Even if Moimbe and Nazons were not his signings he did say he wanted a striker and a left back in january plus Byrne Bryan and Doyle so he did to large extent get his wish. 

[lookersstandandy]

1 hour ago, johnafoafc said:

I said something similar at the the time the takeover was officially announced as completed. I said it’d be nice to hear what his plans or vision was but was told by a ?trust rep that I should be happy that the club has been taken over and there is a bright new future etc. Without any details.

 

I’m not sure the trust rep is at present aware of what the medium-long term plan is, to be able to elaborate. 

 

It would be good to hear more from Mr. Lemsagam in the summer, with the true rep asking many of the questions posed on here.

[latics22]

8 hours ago, Lee Sinnott said:

But he hasn't. He wanted Mills - chairman wouldn't give him an extra year, Nazon turned up for training and Wellens was told there and then by Lemsagam that he was signing on loan, similar story with Zeus and Moimbe...

Well thank god for al I’ll take nazon and moimbe over beni and Pringle! 

[latics22]

The simple fact is we can’t afford a bad start again next season, we can’t afford to give him 10 games to get it wrong. He’s been dining out on his first 10 games for far too long.

[palmer1]

19 hours ago, latics22 said:

The simple fact is we can’t afford a bad start again next season, we can’t afford to give him 10 games to get it wrong. He’s been dining out on his first 10 games for far too long.

 

[Smiler13]

22 hours ago, latics22 said:

The simple fact is we can’t afford a bad start again next season, we can’t afford to give him 10 games to get it wrong. He’s been dining out on his first 10 games for far too long.

However we can give him 10 games with a few new players of better quality than we have now to get it right. Let’s face it he can’t do any worse than Shez this season 5 points from 9 games. Shez being a legend and experienced manager as well. 

[Smiler13]

On 12/04/2018 at 12:12 PM, Londonboy said:

 

The key difference is Hurst wasn't a complete Rookie.  Started at Ilkastone...won promotion. Went to Boston...won promotion. Went to Grimsby....won promotion. Went to Shrewsbury...performed miracles and may get promoted. 

 

My point is that we need a manager with experience of managing a football team We have demonstrated with Kelly, Dunn, Robinson, Wellens that rookie managers rarely work out at out level (I know there will be the odd exception...)  Not necessarily one with a massive profile (and wage demands) but someone who tactically knows how to get the best out of what you have got. Are Shrewsbury's players that much better than ours? I don't think so. IMO whatever happens over the next 6 games I'd look to change it ASAP with a fresh face for next season as I'm getting bored with finishing 17th!

It is  a good job you didnt watch Oldham then from the beginning of Joe Royle’s reign . We had 7 years of carefully building a successful team . Also under Jimmy Frizzell we had to wait for success. These days if you don’t get success in 3-6 months it seems the norm to change manager, however a little more patience and building your team with decent players over a couple of seasons and you are more likely to get success. Wellens said in his pre Gillingham conference that he thinks he has a good nucleus of players already signed for next season and with two or three quality additions over the summer we could have a decent team next season. I think we should go with him on this until he’s proved otherwise.

[Dave_Og]

Even by OWTB standards this debate seems bonkers at this stage of the game

[Londonboy]

1 hour ago, Smiler13 said:

It is  a good job you didnt watch Oldham then from the beginning of Joe Royle’s reign . We had 7 years of carefully building a successful team . Also under Jimmy Frizzell we had to wait for success. These days if you don’t get success in 3-6 months it seems the norm to change manager, however a little more patience and building your team with decent players over a couple of seasons and you are more likely to get success. Wellens said in his pre Gillingham conference that he thinks he has a good nucleus of players already signed for next season and with two or three quality additions over the summer we could have a decent team next season. I think we should go with him on this until he’s proved otherwise.

Hey Smiler. I did watch all the the Royal era the JF days from around 1976. I'm all for giving a manager time to build a team... But not if I think its the wrong manager. 

I just think Wellens isn't the man and I'd rather give time to someone who already has cut their teeth in the EFL. 

Just my opinion... 

He has some decent players but what he's got out of them over the past 4 months has been pretty dire. 

 

[maddog]

*Royle

[League one forever]

All this talk of stability. . Surely it only comes when the board and to lesser extent the fans think the manager is doing a good job? 

 

I think the majority think he’s either doing ok, or shows potential but needs to improve. Why then would you want stability for the manager to prove he’s ok? Haven’t we done ok to death? 

 

Is it wrong to want success/ or the genuine hope of success relatively quickly? 

 

Can anybody honeslty say they are willing to wait 3/4 seasons for a promotion push? Especially when us and Ipswich are least successful clubs of the last 15/20 years. 

 

No wonder we get impatient.

 

 

 

 

[League one forever]

Speaking of Ipswich. Mick Macarthy left this week after 5 and 1/2 seasons. They were very stable. They got in the playoffs once in that time. Is that we want? Longevity without success? 

[opinions4u]

I can get spelling Alessandra wrong.

 

Abbreviating Nepowhatsit to Nepo makes sense.

 

But getting Joe Royle wrong must be pretty close to needing a prosecution.