Wednesday Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 9 hours ago, Ritchierich said: I think Brentford have got there based on their owners pumping in tens of millions They have made more money than they have spent....for example part of their policy is tovalue all their players and if anybody is prepared to meet that value the player is sold irrespective of his contribution to the team. Based on outcomes they have scrapped their youth system in favour of investing in an under 23 development squad. . They signed the likes of Watkins, Toney and Tarkowski based on the metrics of their performance suggesting they were undervalued in the market Their owner made his fortune out of Hedge funds and professional betting. Put simplistically he applied the same principles to run the club,.....first and foremost take emotion out of decision making and do the analysis of the stats and the probabilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlion Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Talking of modern players/tactics/psycho-this/psycho-that versus players of past times etc I do think that modern players spend far too much time in drama school and it's embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 11 hours ago, BP1960 said: Derek Pringle said the same about cricket today, too many coaches and analysts. Convince me now they have improved the batsmen in particular? You can't of course as you blindly believe the hype everything modern is unbeatable. As for music, convince me modern technology has improved that too? Glad I was young in the 1960s and 70s, players like Bobby Johnstone and Alan Groves had individual flair and weren't judged by how many kilometres they ran in a game. Only Grealish matches them today and yet Southgate wants him to defend more for the team..that's when he reluctantly picks him. Barnsley have completely abandoned scouting. Seems to be serving them well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 14 hours ago, BP1960 said: Derek Pringle said the same about cricket today, too many coaches and analysts. Convince me now they have improved the batsmen in particular? You can't of course as you blindly believe the hype everything modern is unbeatable. As for music, convince me modern technology has improved that too? Glad I was young in the 1960s and 70s, players like Bobby Johnstone and Alan Groves had individual flair and weren't judged by how many kilometres they ran in a game. Only Grealish matches them today and yet Southgate wants him to defend more for the team..that's when he reluctantly picks him. 14 hours ago, whittles left foot said: And he just keeps digging that hole. There's not much in BP's post above that any sane person would disagree with. I'm sure he wasn't making a direct comparison of just Groves v Grealish and other current players, but rather players in general then v now. The obsession with keeping possession, leading to endless sideways and backward passing, is boring. There are certainly aspects of the modern game that are unintentionally hilarious. The Czech Republic's 2nd goal v Scotland is a case in point. For all that it was a wonderful strike, why the keeper felt he needed to be on patrol close to the centre circle is a mystery to me. The obsession with sweeper keepers is bizarre. The clue is in the name - goalkeeper, not centre circle keeper. Yet the TV pundits blamed Hendry for taking on the shot, and barely mentioned the fact that Marshall was standing near the centre circle at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 13 hours ago, Ritchierich said: I think Brentford have got there based on their owners pumping in tens of millions Yes but they have done it methodically and analysed player in depth which as has been stated made a profit on player trading and given them success on the pitch against clubs with bigger budgets. Meanwhile Derby and Sheffield Wednesday 2 significantly bigger clubs have been fighting relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 15 hours ago, BP1960 said: Derek Pringle said the same about cricket today, too many coaches and analysts. Convince me now they have improved the batsmen in particular? You can't of course as you blindly believe the hype everything modern is unbeatable. As for music, convince me modern technology has improved that too? Glad I was young in the 1960s and 70s, players like Bobby Johnstone and Alan Groves had individual flair and weren't judged by how many kilometres they ran in a game. Only Grealish matches them today and yet Southgate wants him to defend more for the team..that's when he reluctantly picks him. So again all the top coaches around the world are wrong and your right? Have you seen the size of Pep Guardiolas back room team he has an army of people monitoring all aspects of performance, looking at the success they have had Im guessing they are onto something. As for Derek Pringles comments well we can go back to the 90's if we want that was a glorious era for English cricket wasn't it. If you want to compare it to sides of 60's and 70's well why don't we compare it to the greatest side of that era in fact of any era the Brazil team of 1970. A magnificently flamboyant and talented side, but their preparations for this were meticulous. The team was taken away on a training camp to train at altitude, the players diet and sleeping patterns were monitored and controlled and they even spent time with NASA. They were the most flamboyant sidevof all time but their preparations were rooted in science way ahead of the nations at the time. I'll give you music mind The Beatles The Stones Led Zep etc whipe the floor with anything around now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 37 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: There's not much in BP's post above that any sane person would disagree with. I'm sure he wasn't making a direct comparison of just Groves v Grealish and other current players, but rather players in general then v now. The obsession with keeping possession, leading to endless sideways and backward passing, is boring. There are certainly aspects of the modern game that are unintentionally hilarious. The Czech Republic's 2nd goal v Scotland is a case in point. For all that it was a wonderful strike, why the keeper felt he needed to be on patrol close to the centre circle is a mystery to me. The obsession with sweeper keepers is bizarre. The clue is in the name - goalkeeper, not centre circle keeper. Yet the TV pundits blamed Hendry for taking on the shot, and barely mentioned the fact that Marshall was standing near the centre circle at the time. I disagree count me as insane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Worcester Owl said: There's not much in BP's post above that any sane person would disagree with. I'm sure he wasn't making a direct comparison of just Groves v Grealish and other current players, but rather players in general then v now. The obsession with keeping possession, leading to endless sideways and backward passing, is boring. There are certainly aspects of the modern game that are unintentionally hilarious. The Czech Republic's 2nd goal v Scotland is a case in point. For all that it was a wonderful strike, why the keeper felt he needed to be on patrol close to the centre circle is a mystery to me. The obsession with sweeper keepers is bizarre. The clue is in the name - goalkeeper, not centre circle keeper. Yet the TV pundits blamed Hendry for taking on the shot, and barely mentioned the fact that Marshall was standing near the centre circle at the time. It’s the lack of balance. There are some old school values that are still valid today. But the game has also moved on in a multitude of ways. BP doesn’t/won’t acknowledge this, preferring to repeatedly state that everything was better back in the day. Which is romanticised nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 24 minutes ago, League one forever said: It’s the lack of balance. There are some old school values that are still valid today. But the game has also moved on in a multitude of ways. BP doesn’t/won’t acknowledge this, preferring to repeatedly state that everything was better back in the day. Which is romanticised nonsense. It's moved on yes, no doubt about that, but not always for the better. This is a particularly difficult issue for Latics and England fans. Since my first game at Boundary Park as a 7 year old in 1965, let's face it I've had 56 years of largely football disappointment, apart from the golden years under Royle. Ditto following England - I can only dimly remember the 1966 World Cup (and certainly wasn't fully aware of its importance at the time) and there haven't been too many highlights following the national team since. I feel conditioned to dull mediocrity. Modern footballers are superb physical athletes, and I don't begrudge them a penny of their crazy salaries because one bad injury can end a career at any point, but there's no doubt in my view that individual flair and maverick characters just aren't around in the numbers they used to be. Whether it's saturation TV coverage, or coaches driving out the excitement, the game's not the same. Sure you still see a Ronaldo or a Messi from time to time, but the last exceptionally gifted English player I can think of was Gascoigne, and he was 30 years ago. Grealish and Foden may get there, but they're not at that level yet. And don't get me started on what the "Premier" League has done to domestic football........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: It's moved on yes, no doubt about that, but not always for the better. This is a particularly difficult issue for Latics and England fans. Since my first game at Boundary Park as a 7 year old in 1965, let's face it I've had 56 years of largely football disappointment, apart from the golden years under Royle. Ditto following England - I can only dimly remember the 1966 World Cup (and certainly wasn't fully aware of its importance at the time) and there haven't been too many highlights following the national team since. I feel conditioned to dull mediocrity. Modern footballers are superb physical athletes, and I don't begrudge them a penny of their crazy salaries because one bad injury can end a career at any point, but there's no doubt in my view that individual flair and maverick characters just aren't around in the numbers they used to be. Whether it's saturation TV coverage, or coaches driving out the excitement, the game's not the same. Sure you still see a Ronaldo or a Messi from time to time, but the last exceptionally gifted English player I can think of was Gascoigne, and he was 30 years ago. Grealish and Foden may get there, but they're not at that level yet. And don't get me started on what the "Premier" League has done to domestic football........ Wayne Rooney was pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Wayne Rooney was pretty good. Didn’t he break a record set by someone in the sixties? I forget his name. Probably all that no drinking and prolonging his career bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddyexile84 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 It’s like when people get all bleary eyed thinking of the 50’s Polio, racial intolerance even worse than today and getting a criminal record for being gay and going outside to use the toilet (which is some london slums was shared with upto 5 other families) what a time to be alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said: It’s like when people get all bleary eyed thinking of the 50’s Polio, racial intolerance even worse than today and getting a criminal record for being gay and going outside to use the toilet (which is some london slums was shared with upto 5 other families) what a time to be alive Aye Or when people prefer ‘characters’ which is code for pisshead who can play football, to athletes that don’t drink and look after themselves with hipster stuff like swimming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said: It’s like when people get all bleary eyed thinking of the 50’s Polio, racial intolerance even worse than today and getting a criminal record for being gay and going outside to use the toilet (which is some london slums was shared with upto 5 other families) what a time to be alive In the village where I used to live I was drafted onto a committee to organise Diamond Jubilee celebrations. There were 1950s games planned for the kids -skipping, hopscotch, marbles etc. My suggestion of 'rickett's when someone asked what else kids had in the 50s wasn't met with universal approval... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPAS Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 7 hours ago, Wednesday said: They have made more money than they have spent....for example part of their policy is tovalue all their players and if anybody is prepared to meet that value the player is sold irrespective of his contribution to the team. Based on outcomes they have scrapped their youth system in favour of investing in an under 23 development squad. . They signed the likes of Watkins, Toney and Tarkowski based on the metrics of their performance suggesting they were undervalued in the market Their owner made his fortune out of Hedge funds and professional betting. Put simplistically he applied the same principles to run the club,.....first and foremost take emotion out of decision making and do the analysis of the stats and the probabilities Prior to them being promoted, and with Griffin Park yet to redeveloped, Mr. Benham was still c£90m in deficit even after the income he's made on transfers; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: In the village where iI used to live I was drafted onto a committee to organise Diamond Jubilee celebrations. There were 1950s games planned for the kids -skipping, hopscotch, marbles etc. My suggestion of 'rickett's when someone asked what else kids had in the 50s wasn't met with universal approval... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 minute ago, League one forever said: Couldn't stop a pig in a ginnell.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, BPAS said: Prior to them being promoted, and with Griffin Park yet to redeveloped, Mr. Benham was still c£90m in deficit even after the income he's made on transfer's; In cash terms? But with plenty of assets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, League one forever said: Aye Or when people prefer ‘characters’ which is code for pisshead who can play football, to athletes that don’t drink and look after themselves with hipster stuff like swimming. Alan Groves didn't touch alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said: It’s like when people get all bleary eyed thinking of the 50’s Polio, racial intolerance even worse than today and getting a criminal record for being gay and going outside to use the toilet (which is some london slums was shared with upto 5 other families) what a time to be alive 30-40 years from now Ive no doubt many of todays millennials and Gen Z will be wagging their fingers at the younger generation of the time telling them how much better things where when they were young. Have to say to counter this I wouldn't mind if things like house prices went back to what they were in the 1960's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, BP1960 said: Alan Groves didn't touch alcohol. Cool story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatjoe1 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Worcester Owl said: It's moved on yes, no doubt about that, but not always for the better. This is a particularly difficult issue for Latics and England fans. Since my first game at Boundary Park as a 7 year old in 1965, let's face it I've had 56 years of largely football disappointment, apart from the golden years under Royle. Ditto following England - I can only dimly remember the 1966 World Cup (and certainly wasn't fully aware of its importance at the time) and there haven't been too many highlights following the national team since. I feel conditioned to dull mediocrity. Modern footballers are superb physical athletes, and I don't begrudge them a penny of their crazy salaries because one bad injury can end a career at any point, but there's no doubt in my view that individual flair and maverick characters just aren't around in the numbers they used to be. Whether it's saturation TV coverage, or coaches driving out the excitement, the game's not the same. Sure you still see a Ronaldo or a Messi from time to time, but the last exceptionally gifted English player I can think of was Gascoigne, and he was 30 years ago. Grealish and Foden may get there, but they're not at that level yet. And don't get me started on what the "Premier" League has done to domestic football........ I miss the art of a good winger. Expansive football played at a high tempo with wingers (one would do). Loved it. Miss the cries of 'skin him.' But agree - footballers today are great athletes and most are very professional. No more drinking clubs after training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 28 minutes ago, BP1960 said: Alan Groves didn't touch alcohol. although he did have some other peccadilloes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wednesday Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 41 minutes ago, BPAS said: Prior to them being promoted, and with Griffin Park yet to redeveloped, Mr. Benham was still c£90m in deficit even after the income he's made on transfer's; And the prize money for finishing bottom of Premier League is £96.6 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Worcester Owl said: There's not much in BP's post above that any sane person would disagree with. I'm sure he wasn't making a direct comparison of just Groves v Grealish and other current players, but rather players in general then v now. The obsession with keeping possession, leading to endless sideways and backward passing, is boring. There are certainly aspects of the modern game that are unintentionally hilarious. The Czech Republic's 2nd goal v Scotland is a case in point. For all that it was a wonderful strike, why the keeper felt he needed to be on patrol close to the centre circle is a mystery to me. The obsession with sweeper keepers is bizarre. The clue is in the name - goalkeeper, not centre circle keeper. Yet the TV pundits blamed Hendry for taking on the shot, and barely mentioned the fact that Marshall was standing near the centre circle at the time. I'm surprised FGR's keeper hasn't been caught out like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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