DarkStar Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, BP1960 said: Then some selfish agents from lower league clubs would demand higher wages for their clients and the problem spirals. Wages are at the brunt of this as they scale down from the obscene amounts paid at top level. Salary cap them, if they want to go abroad let them, the game will continue no matter. This is the main problem. Success depends on who will pay the highest wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 It's not just about sending more money down the leagues - that would just get spent on player wages. It's about overhauling the entire system, everything needs looking at. Premier league hoovering up young players out of lower league academies and sitting them in massive development squads just so no one else has them. Charging loan fees, demanding clauses that says they must play. I would start with some sort of facilities fund, to enable clubs to have decent pitches and training facilities. Cap squad sizes. Cap development squad sizes and control age group wages. An attempt to get quality young players playing for their local team in the lower leagues, with the best ones then generating decent transfer fees for the clubs. As opposed to getting taken at 13/14 for nominal sums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, nzlatic said: It's not just about sending more money down the leagues - that would just get spent on player wages. It's about overhauling the entire system, everything needs looking at. Premier league hoovering up young players out of lower league academies and sitting them in massive development squads just so no one else has them. Charging loan fees, demanding clauses that says they must play. I would start with some sort of facilities fund, to enable clubs to have decent pitches and training facilities. Cap squad sizes. Cap development squad sizes and control age group wages. An attempt to get quality young players playing for their local team in the lower leagues, with the best ones then generating decent transfer fees for the clubs. As opposed to getting taken at 13/14 for nominal sums. Why do that when you can have B teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 10 hours ago, bigfatjoe1 said: Municipalisation would resolve all of these capitalist-based problems. Football as a business or football as a part of our culture/heritage? Business? Then don't moan. This is business in action. Business blah blah blah. Capitalism is wonderful etc. Bury, Oldham, Macc - screw them all. This is business. Seriously, why are you complaining if you buy into the free market? We need a different model for lower league football. An interesting point and I agree that something different needs to be done. There is no doubt the UK has lurched ever more towards capitalism. Greed (and "me" "me") has become the norm and was cemented during the Thatcher years. Our sense of community and caring for others has generally diminished. Greed has a lot to answer for - just look at football players for some of the worst examples on the planet. Yet, as a society, we encourage our children to hero worship them! Should we be surprised at what we have created, both in football and society generally? I made a vow never to subscribe to Sky in any format when it became involved in football - and to this day I haven't. If a pub is showing sky football, I walk out. Now, you may say that's a bit extreme but we do have choices. Unfortunately too many end up contributing to the very things that (indirectly) are destroying the things they profess to love. Looking to the future, I think lower league football will inevitably go full circle i.e. regionalised lower leagues and perhaps semi-professional players. Meanwhile "football fans" will continue to pour into (Sky TV) pubs in their team's colours and continue contributing to the obscene wages of many semi-literate young men who happen to be good at kicking a ball about (I accept some are more than semi-literate, but you get the point?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haribo_man Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 22 minutes ago, nzlatic said: It's not just about sending more money down the leagues - that would just get spent on player wages. It's about overhauling the entire system, everything needs looking at. Premier league hoovering up young players out of lower league academies and sitting them in massive development squads just so no one else has them. Charging loan fees, demanding clauses that says they must play. I would start with some sort of facilities fund, to enable clubs to have decent pitches and training facilities. Cap squad sizes. Cap development squad sizes and control age group wages. An attempt to get quality young players playing for their local team in the lower leagues, with the best ones then generating decent transfer fees for the clubs. As opposed to getting taken at 13/14 for nominal sums. Absolutely this. it is the stockpiling of talent amongst many other things which is killing the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Dave_Og said: No way should taxpayers be funding lower league football. If councils have spare money, unlikely, then it would be much better spent on public facilities Lol - I`m not being funny Dave as I do understand your general point but you set yourself up for a fall here with Oldham Council's lamentable record. Here's just a few examples :- Build a sports centre with swimming pool in the town centre. Then demolish it and build another half a mile away. Build a shopping centre in the town centre. Then demolish it and build another literally just up the road. Build half a bus station, then another half, then another half... and forget how many halves make a full ...! Support getting rid of the town's last railway link - now gone forever. Build council housing, demolish it, build it again, rinse and repeat Build a huge steel/glass pedestrian bridge over a main road - and then demolish it. Approve the demolition of many historic buildings over the years - and then remark enthusiastically when schoolkids do an archaeological dig in the detritus that remains from one that was knocked down (you really couldn't make it up). We're having an M&S at Mumps - no we're not - yes we are - no we're not - it's a Lidl - is it? Spend fortunes on various expert reports after the Oldham riots - and largely ignore the lot. Get rid of the town's cinemas for decades - and then spend an eye watering fortune creating a town centre cinema in the old town hall. Commission very expensive public art - like steel water fountains that don't work - and then take them away and scrap them Run down the town centre markets - and then wonder why so many go to Ashton Market or even Bury - or just get on their much vaunted Metrolink and head out of town to Manchester to spend their money! Basically, we could probably own Man U, Barcelona, Real Madrid.... and Latics with the public money that has been wasted over the years, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinsDuckEgg Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 33 minutes ago, wiseowl said: Basically, we could probably own Man U, Barcelona, Real Madrid.... and Latics with the public money that has been wasted over the years, Dave. Not been wasted. It always ends up in someone's pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 At the start of a season each EFL club has to submit evidence that they can fulfill their fixtures at their home ground. Examples are land registry and leases. I was curious which lease the club submitted to the EFL. The 2011 one or the 2016 the club are now disputing. I asked the FSA would EFL tell us and they would not. I had it as a question to ask the club when we eventually got our Shareholder/owner meeting. Hoping the EFL are digging out that copy and asking the club questions too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 7 hours ago, wiseowl said: An interesting point and I agree that something different needs to be done. There is no doubt the UK has lurched ever more towards capitalism. Greed (and "me" "me") has become the norm and was cemented during the Thatcher years. Our sense of community and caring for others has generally diminished. Greed has a lot to answer for - just look at football players for some of the worst examples on the planet. Yet, as a society, we encourage our children to hero worship them! Should we be surprised at what we have created, both in football and society generally? I made a vow never to subscribe to Sky in any format when it became involved in football - and to this day I haven't. If a pub is showing sky football, I walk out. Now, you may say that's a bit extreme but we do have choices. Unfortunately too many end up contributing to the very things that (indirectly) are destroying the things they profess to love. Looking to the future, I think lower league football will inevitably go full circle i.e. regionalised lower leagues and perhaps semi-professional players. Meanwhile "football fans" will continue to pour into (Sky TV) pubs in their team's colours and continue contributing to the obscene wages of many semi-literate young men who happen to be good at kicking a ball about (I accept some are more than semi-literate, but you get the point?). Good post wiseowl, enjoyed the read Whilst am pretty sure I don't share your politics, I do have similar thoughts on some of your football points However, what most football fans don't appreciate is how few supporters actually attend football games every week, hence the increasing bossing of the UK football pyramid by the likes of Sky On average only c740,000 fans attend games in the Premier League and EFL with the Premier League attendances being twice the collective total of the Championship, League One and League Two Sky paid around £3.5billion and BT around £885m for a 3 season package which started this season so they very much call the shots There is very little chance of the Premier League voting to drop more money into the Championship as they see them as potential competitors for their sacred slots in the Premier League and absolutely no chance of them donating money into League One and League Two and the likes of Sky are more than happy at that as its blindingly obvious that ManU v Liverpool or Chelsea v Spurs puts millions more bums in front of tv's than Coventry v Rotherham. Premier League football attracts big advertising pre game and at half time for Sky, particularly from the Betting Companies as well as being an easy sell into the emerging football markets of Asia and the Far East to increase subscriptions and overseas advertising Both League One and League Two weekly attendances are around 150,000 so if I was running Sky or BT am pretty sure I would be showing primarily Premier League games with a few Championship games chucked in to keep the EFL sweet Even with tv money, the Championship Clubs shipped losses of £579m Reality is, that other than a handful of football clubs, the vast majority simply could not afford to function without tv money Lower League football is very much on its own and 100% the leagues need restructuring, which I suspect will only delay the inevitable demise of a number of traditional clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 One of the biggest changes is Rugby Union, once upon a time internationals consisted of pure amateurs with a quick turn round at half time of one minute. Yet still attracted crowds of 100, 000. The players were probably only paid expenses but still gave 100% All sports have been corrupted now and I'm afraid it going to get worse with the weak going to the wall with no help from the greedy leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Great ideas. None of which ever have a midgies dick chance of being ever implemented unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 1 hour ago, BP1960 said: One of the biggest changes is Rugby Union, once upon a time internationals consisted of pure amateurs with a quick turn round at half time of one minute. Yet still attracted crowds of 100, 000. The players were probably only paid expenses but still gave 100% All sports have been corrupted now and I'm afraid it going to get worse with the weak going to the wall with no help from the greedy leagues. They weren't just expenses and a few of the top players (your Will Carlings and Jeremy Guscotts) were professional in the amateur era. Half-time wasn't a minute either. Sport needs to evolve to its market. If you had said 20 years ago that the biggest boxing PPV buy rate was a fight between 2 minor celebrities you'd have been sectioned. The same way that you can be a professional e-sports player. The issue is that when football is run by old stuck in the mud white men with a hint of the lodge about them then football isn't going to evolve at the required rate. Eventually more and more clubs are going to go bust that something will need to be changed for England to sustain more than 2 professional leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis Enrique Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Don’t like the sound of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 33 minutes ago, Luis Enrique said: Don’t like the sound of this. Which probably means AL has agreed to give Blitz some money to keep him sweet, and he’ll give him the rest at a later date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, League one forever said: Which probably means AL has agreed to give Blitz some money to keep him sweet, and he’ll give him the rest at a later date. ....or Laurence Bassini is somehow involved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said: ....or Laurence Bassini is somehow involved... Oh FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Bassini would be some ride. I reckon it’d be exciting for a few years even though he’s a proper loon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, Ryan said: Bassini would be some ride. I reckon it’d be exciting for a few years even though he’s a proper loon. I just think it would be more of the same. A chancer who promises loads, hires and fires and upsets everyone. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk2008 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Not sure I’ll be able retain the last of any hope I still have of following this club if we move from one crackpot to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 4 hours ago, sjk2008 said: Not sure I’ll be able retain the last of any hope I still have of following this club if we move from one crackpot to another. for the third time ? Moore- corney corney-AL Al - ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Ryan said: Bassini would be some ride. I reckon it’d be exciting for a few years even though he’s a proper loon. It really won't be exciting at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 34 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: It really won't be exciting at all. Don’t see how it can be anything other than complete disaster. What might be happening? AL sold to Bassini? AL given a %age to Bassini in return for settling the debt? Bassini taking over after admin? Bassini rumour won’t come to anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 I hesitate to cite the EFL with any degree of confidence but would he get through their Directors and Owners test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horlicks Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 30 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: I hesitate to cite the EFL with any degree of confidence but would he get through their Directors and Owners test? I was thinking the same, surely if he is allowed to buy a football club with his track record there is no point in the test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 28 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: I hesitate to cite the EFL with any degree of confidence but would he get through their Directors and Owners test? A quick summary of his wiki page... - Bankruptcy - Owned Watford for 13 months - Took £1.5 million out that never went back in - Found guilty of misconduct and was banned from football for 3 years - Found that he owed previous Watford directors millions - Bankruptcy again in 2014 - Disrupted the Bolton sale to no avail after failed attempt to purchase. But this is the EFL so he’ll probably sail through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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