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Who Do You Hold Responsible For The Closure Of The Joe Royle Stand?


Who do you hold responsible for the closure of the Joe Royle Stand?  

108 members have voted

  1. 1. Who do you hold responsible for the closure of the Joe Royle Stand?

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  • Poll closed on 09/04/2020 at 02:30 PM

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46 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

 

Commercial properties I think, are sometimes full repair leases, where the renter may be liable for all maintenance subject to the signing of a schedule of condition agreement at the onset.

I’m sure someone in the property game will put me right if that’s not the case!😆

If you are correct, then it could be a case of AL not reading the lease properly. Which would be another due diligence cockup.

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1 hour ago, oafc1955 said:

 

Commercial properties I think, are sometimes full repair leases, where the renter may be liable for all maintenance subject to the signing of a schedule of condition agreement at the onset.

I’m sure someone in the property game will put me right if that’s not the case!😆

Communal areas usually remain the responsibility of the landlord for maintenance. Whist we can all make assumptions, I suspect the lease is extremely  complex when you factor income streams on matchdays and non matchdays, access areas to the other commercial premises in the stand such as the gym. AL has made many mistakes so far but if it was easy to resolve I think he would to keep fans onboard. Maybe it suits the other parties involved to not act reasonably in negotiations with AL because of the negative PR it causes towards him the longer this drags on.  Whatever the reality, the club is the main loser.

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It’s a can of worms. I believe AL was completely out of his depth buying into ‘whatever‘ he actually bought. But like Corney & Co before him he has somehow (so far) managed to keep the club afloat through adversity. Many demanded change and we are now in a lower Division and zero attendances. 

Next!

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23 hours ago, L1onheartNew said:

Dunno but you would have thought that they would have had another feckin key cut when they had the chance

 

Or someone employed checking tickets on the door.

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Interesting thread this and the fact people are thinking that the Council closed the stand because a couple of doors were locked that shouldn't have been. My understanding of event safety is that there must be real time CCTV relayed to the control box ie. The police box in the corner of the RRE and i would have thought that this applies to all publicly accessible areas of the NS. Has this been done? Who know's. Also there would need to be some kind of control on who enters the NS or the OEC which has access to the NS during the event. I believe the club tried to implement an element of control around Christmas time by asking for tickets on entering the fans bar but was met with objections from the OEC who went on public record to say everyone is welcome with or without ticket. I wouldn't have thought this went down well with SAG. The club hold the safety certificate so are responsible that all requirements are met during the event but wouldn't mean they are responsible for making sure that the jobs are completed as the lease as far as i can ascertain only covers the seats and not the whole stand unlike other areas of the ground. If the OEC really wanted to get the stand open they would have the jobs completed and comply with the club in making sure they know who is the stand and therefore complying with the safety certificate. God forbid there was a disaster, it wouldn't be the directors of the OEC in the dock it would be the directors of the football club so i can see why they have to comply with safety organisations.

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9 minutes ago, PeteG said:

Interesting thread this and the fact people are thinking that the Council closed the stand because a couple of doors were locked that shouldn't have been. My understanding of event safety is that there must be real time CCTV relayed to the control box ie. The police box in the corner of the RRE and i would have thought that this applies to all publicly accessible areas of the NS. Has this been done? Who know's. Also there would need to be some kind of control on who enters the NS or the OEC which has access to the NS during the event. I believe the club tried to implement an element of control around Christmas time by asking for tickets on entering the fans bar but was met with objections from the OEC who went on public record to say everyone is welcome with or without ticket. I wouldn't have thought this went down well with SAG. The club hold the safety certificate so are responsible that all requirements are met during the event but wouldn't mean they are responsible for making sure that the jobs are completed as the lease as far as i can ascertain only covers the seats and not the whole stand unlike other areas of the ground. If the OEC really wanted to get the stand open they would have the jobs completed and comply with the club in making sure they know who is the stand and therefore complying with the safety certificate. God forbid there was a disaster, it wouldn't be the directors of the OEC in the dock it would be the directors of the football club so i can see why they have to comply with safety organisations.


It’s not hard to stop people without tickets getting from the broadway suite (fans bar) into the seated area. It just needs stewards at the entrances to the seated area - which they had before it was closed 

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Entry to the OEC shouldn't need a match ticket.  Access to the stand seating should.  If that is the hold up I don't understand why some sort of agreement can't be reached to ensure people without a match ticket can't access the stand through the OEC.  Maybe someone on the doors that lead to the seats asking to see match tickets?

 

My gut feel is that the club were pissed off that boycotting fans were able to go and drink in the OEC and not go to the game.  So they saw this as an opportunity to try and shut that down by demanding anyone in there has a match ticket.  They now won't back down (AL doesn't seemingly do reconcilliation) so we're at a totally unnecessary impasse and the fans are the ones that lose out.

 

But I've not seen the actual agreements or been present at any meetings so its all guesswork obviously!!

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As i said, i was of the understanding the club tried to implement some kind of security measures but were knocked back by the OEC. This is only one issue though, has the CCTV in all publicly accessible areas been fitted so it is relayed back to the control box?? I saw Simon Brooke say on social media that all works had been completed but if so have they informed the club and the council because when i asked neither party were aware??

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11 minutes ago, PeteG said:

As i said, i was of the understanding the club tried to implement some kind of security measures but were knocked back by the OEC. This is only one issue though, has the CCTV in all publicly accessible areas been fitted so it is relayed back to the control box?? I saw Simon Brooke say on social media that all works had been completed but if so have they informed the club and the council because when i asked neither party were aware??


The issue with that was that they were trying to stop people entering the OEC completely - not staffing the entrances to the seating area - the OEC stated the bar was open to everyone and this was agreed with the council on the proviso it closed at 1pm.  As I said before there were always stewards on the entrances to the seating area so it really wouldn’t be difficult to tell ticketless fans to turn around 

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1 hour ago, PeteG said:

Interesting thread this and the fact people are thinking that the Council closed the stand because a couple of doors were locked that shouldn't have been. My understanding of event safety is that there must be real time CCTV relayed to the control box ie. The police box in the corner of the RRE and i would have thought that this applies to all publicly accessible areas of the NS. Has this been done? Who know's. Also there would need to be some kind of control on who enters the NS or the OEC which has access to the NS during the event. I believe the club tried to implement an element of control around Christmas time by asking for tickets on entering the fans bar but was met with objections from the OEC who went on public record to say everyone is welcome with or without ticket. I wouldn't have thought this went down well with SAG. The club hold the safety certificate so are responsible that all requirements are met during the event but wouldn't mean they are responsible for making sure that the jobs are completed as the lease as far as i can ascertain only covers the seats and not the whole stand unlike other areas of the ground. If the OEC really wanted to get the stand open they would have the jobs completed and comply with the club in making sure they know who is the stand and therefore complying with the safety certificate. God forbid there was a disaster, it wouldn't be the directors of the OEC in the dock it would be the directors of the football club so i can see why they have to comply with safety organisations.

 

 

18 minutes ago, PeteG said:

As i said, i was of the understanding the club tried to implement some kind of security measures but were knocked back by the OEC. This is only one issue though, has the CCTV in all publicly accessible areas been fitted so it is relayed back to the control box?? I saw Simon Brooke say on social media that all works had been completed but if so have they informed the club and the council because when i asked neither party were aware??

This sums up the current situation pretty accurately. 👍

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1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

Entry to the OEC shouldn't need a match ticket.  Access to the stand seating should.  If that is the hold up I don't understand why some sort of agreement can't be reached to ensure people without a match ticket can't access the stand through the OEC.  Maybe someone on the doors that lead to the seats asking to see match tickets?

 

 

It's not the opera. We all know that people will have one more beer and leave getting to their seat to the last minute so every chance of delays and aggravation. Having said that I'd struggle to think that many people would go to the OEC on match day without intending to go to the match so whether there's a real issue isn't at all clear. 

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1 hour ago, Chaddyexile84 said:


The issue with that was that they were trying to stop people entering the OEC completely - not staffing the entrances to the seating area - the OEC stated the bar was open to everyone and this was agreed with the council on the proviso it closed at 1pm.  As I said before there were always stewards on the entrances to the seating area so it really wouldn’t be difficult to tell ticketless fans to turn around 

Did it close at 1pm? I always thought it was open up to kick off time, but i could be wrong. What did the people do for 2 hours if they were closed at 1pm? 

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Just now, PeteG said:

Did it close at 1pm? I always thought it was open up to kick off time, but i could be wrong. What did the people do for 2 hours if they were closed at 1pm? 


Quite - that was the proviso whether it happened or not I wouldn’t know as unfortunately I haven’t been to BP since we played Swindon in March 19

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2 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said:


Quite - that was the proviso whether it happened or not I wouldn’t know as unfortunately I haven’t been to BP since we played Swindon in March 19

Be interesting if it did happen because if it didn't then maybe that has added to the problem in which case the OEC would be responsible

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28 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

It's not the opera. We all know that people will have one more beer and leave getting to their seat to the last minute so every chance of delays and aggravation. Having said that I'd struggle to think that many people would go to the OEC on match day without intending to go to the match so whether there's a real issue isn't at all clear. 

I doubt its a real issue at all, but it was reported as being the main sticking point at the time.  I thought there was a bit of a feeling of those boycotting the club because of the AL, wanting to support the FLG and so spent money at the OEC on match days. It probably wasn't many, but may have been enough to get someone's back up.  Hence the opening hours on match day getting cut, and then this all happening.

 

Like I say, I don't know anyone involved so am just drawing my own conclusions.  But for something so minor to have dragged on for so long, it can only be because of the personal grievances and stubbornness of one or both parties.

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2 hours ago, PeteG said:

Interesting thread this and the fact people are thinking that the Council closed the stand because a couple of doors were locked that shouldn't have been. My understanding of event safety is that there must be real time CCTV relayed to the control box ie. The police box in the corner of the RRE and i would have thought that this applies to all publicly accessible areas of the NS. Has this been done? Who know's. Also there would need to be some kind of control on who enters the NS or the OEC which has access to the NS during the event. I believe the club tried to implement an element of control around Christmas time by asking for tickets on entering the fans bar but was met with objections from the OEC who went on public record to say everyone is welcome with or without ticket. I wouldn't have thought this went down well with SAG. The club hold the safety certificate so are responsible that all requirements are met during the event but wouldn't mean they are responsible for making sure that the jobs are completed as the lease as far as i can ascertain only covers the seats and not the whole stand unlike other areas of the ground. If the OEC really wanted to get the stand open they would have the jobs completed and comply with the club in making sure they know who is the stand and therefore complying with the safety certificate. God forbid there was a disaster, it wouldn't be the directors of the OEC in the dock it would be the directors of the football club so i can see why they have to comply with safety organisations.

Interesting angle. But why are people allowed to use the gym and not the OEC during matched? Surely the same issue applies? 

The CCTV is the main issue IMHO, as I've said before. But if it's only needed for the football then it's down to the club. There are no police, and no live feed needed there when there is no football on. But rather than negotiate, the club tried to harm the OEC, ergo the bulk of the responsiblitity lies with them.

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7 minutes ago, singe said:

Interesting angle. But why are people allowed to use the gym and not the OEC during matched? Surely the same issue applies? 

The CCTV is the main issue IMHO, as I've said before. But if it's only needed for the football then it's down to the club. There are no police, and no live feed needed there when there is no football on. But rather than negotiate, the club tried to harm the OEC, ergo the bulk of the responsiblitity lies with them.

As i said the clubs lease is for the seats, therefore if the OEC/Brassbank want the stand using for football it would be their responsibility to make sure that it's fit for purpose and therefore make sure that there is a real time feed to the control box. The gym and the club shop doesn't have any access to the seats and therefore the event as far as i know.

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39 minutes ago, PeteG said:

As i said the clubs lease is for the seats, therefore if the OEC/Brassbank want the stand using for football it would be their responsibility to make sure that it's fit for purpose and therefore make sure that there is a real time feed to the control box. The gym and the club shop doesn't have any access to the seats and therefore the event as far as i know.

I doubt they are that bothered if the seats are open or not. It is a big problem for the football club though (or at least it should be)

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20 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

I doubt they are that bothered if the seats are open or not. It is a big problem for the football club though (or at least it should be)

I get that, but the question was who's fault is it? You are basically inferring that it is the fault of the OEC and by not complying are damaging the football club which i agree with you on.

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8 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

I imagine because from the OEC you can see the pitch

The gym, not that i've ever been, probably have some procedure for monitoring who is going in and out such as scanning in. Also, there is no access from the gym to the event (football match). I would have thought it's a requirement for the safety certificate for fans to be monitored in a fans bar via cctv being relayed to the control box as well should there be any trouble. It's pretty obvious really the differences between a fans bar at the game and the gym and it's a shame the OEC haven't put in place the proper provisions before opening said fans bar. Putting profits before fans imo.

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1 hour ago, singe said:

But if it's only needed for the football then it's down to the club. There are no police, and no live feed needed there when there is no football on. But rather than negotiate, the club tried to harm the OEC, ergo the bulk of the responsiblitity lies with them.

Nope. It’s down to the OEC to fix not the club.

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Maybe cash is short for the OEC and they haven't got it so therefore the work hasn't been done?? It must be tough for any company at the moment especially in events and hospitality after all one of the main person involved in the running of the OEC has just been issued a CCJ for £3700

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