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7 minutes ago, Behind Closed Doors said:

Last week Stevenage won their first home since October 2019....yesterday Crawley won their first away game since August 2019

 

i wonder what the common denominator could be 

Chuck a little - defeats to Orient and Morecambe into the mix who've rolled us over without so much as a whimper into the mix and it's not difficult to see where this momentous 125 year anniversary season is going to take us, dont worry though Lags and Co will all be there handing over their hard earned and funding the fuckwits - clapping us into non league oblivion. :applause1:

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Whether Kewell is the right man or not i don’t know, but if Mo is recruiting - rather than Kewell - and the players are either not good enough, not tough enough, ‘bottle jobs’ - or a combination of al

I have been watching Latics for 50 years + Penrhyn and know my football. I have not seen any games Latics have figured in competitively this season but anyone can see that the  squad is desperately th

You know what, I agree with a lot of this.   From what I've seen so far we're trying to play a better style than under Maamria and we've got more technical and threatening attacking players

2 hours ago, the_mighty_bosh said:

 

You know what, I agree with a lot of this.

 

From what I've seen so far we're trying to play a better style than under Maamria and we've got more technical and threatening attacking players in the squad (Smith aside), but we've sacrificed the experience and nous that Wheater and especially McCann brought to the table.  As a result the defensive unit looks weak and very naive.

 

I don't mind us bringing a manager like Kewell in to do this, but I do mind that we'll probably sack him within a single figure number of games when he's clearly trying to put in place a long (or at least medium) term strategy.  Maybe Kewell is naive to be trying this with the track record our owners have for sacking managers very quickly, but at least he's trying to get us playing in a better way.

 

Lawlor's looked OK so far and I wouldn't blame him for any of the goals yesterday.

 

Hamer...worryingly he looks out of place in a better technical team which doesn't bode well if there's interest from higher up.  Distribution was very poor and even more concerning is that he was at fault for the first and third goals with poor defensive play.  I'd put Jombati at right back instead of him, but with our lack of centre back options I'd put Fage there for the time being.  Badan looks better suited to our way of playing that Borthwick-Jackson does, but he's another short defensive player.  Jombati and Piergianni look a bit more comfortable together, but Piergianni lacks the height and Jombati lacks the strength that makes exiling Wheater even more frustrating.

 

McCalmont looks like a very good player, I know we were linked with Matty Palmer earlier this week but I think McCalmont will be able to play a very similar role.  Whelan looks less lively although still technical and takes care of the ball well, the miss at the end was criminal because hitting the target was the minimum requirement.  My issue isn't with the individuals, it's that we look very lightweight with the two of them together and there's not a lot of protection for an already shaky defence.  McCann alongside either of them and we'd be fine.

 

Like Hamer, Keillor-Dunn looks out of place alongside more technical players.  He brings a bit of speed to the attack but he's really poor on the ball.  That free-kick was one of the worst I've ever seen.  Grant has the ability but I don't think he's got the legs to last 90 mins, maybe he'll be useful as an impact player.  McAleny looked frustrated for a lot of it but showed his quality for the goal.  Similar to Rowe who I can't believe Kewell took off when we were chasing a goal late in the game!  Yes he was flagging a bit but he's our most instinctive and confident striker we've got, you don't replace him with a battling left sided midfielder when you're chasing a goal!

 

As for the subs, Blackwood looked OK and has the potential to be a decent option, but should be back up to the more experienced forward players for now.  Fage looks like a versatile squad option and for now I'd put him at right back instead of Hamer, Barnett put himself about a bit, not his fault that he was the wrong sub.

 

Kewell - replacing a goal-scoring forward with a left midfielder when chasing an equaliser was baffling.  Other than that he's walking a very fine line.  I don't think he'll have the time to put in place what he's trying to do and I think he's very naive to think that he will.  I wish him well but I think he won't last.

Even though the result was not good, I thought yesterdays performance was an improvement on the Orient and Morecombe games.

If there could be a few more additions, for example an experienced CD to steady the ship and perhaps a Jonny Smith type with a bit of pace, then we would not be far away.

There are some good players in there, remember teams need time to gel and most of this team are quite young.

The midfield looked good at times yesterday, the sucker punch goal clearly affected moral and heads dropped for a while, tighten up the defence and things will improve.

Not sure about Hamer as a fullback, looks good going forward, although his crosses at times lack precision, perhaps try him in a role further forward.

Rowe is a good player, but he likes to sit outside the box, so not really a CF, perhaps Blackwood and Mcaleny will be a good front line, Blackwood looked decent yesterday and has a fair amount of skill. Rowe would be more effective playing behind the front two as he is dangerous on the edge of the box and will be harder for the oppositions centre backs to mark. Long balls up to Mcaleny yesterday were a waste of time, especially against two big defenders.

Baddan for me also looks a good signing, a bit of pace, decent defending, good going forward, did well with the cross yesterday which led to the goal, I also noticed that he isn't afraid to mix it with the opposition, got in a few faces yesterday.

Given a bit of patience and a couple more signings, there is the nucleus of a decent team.

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55 minutes ago, hillside blue said:

Even though the result was not good, I thought yesterdays performance was an improvement on the Orient and Morecombe games.

If there could be a few more additions, for example an experienced CD to steady the ship and perhaps a Jonny Smith type with a bit of pace, then we would not be far away.

There are some good players in there, remember teams need time to gel and most of this team are quite young.

The midfield looked good at times yesterday, the sucker punch goal clearly affected moral and heads dropped for a while, tighten up the defence and things will improve.

Not sure about Hamer as a fullback, looks good going forward, although his crosses at times lack precision, perhaps try him in a role further forward.

Rowe is a good player, but he likes to sit outside the box, so not really a CF, perhaps Blackwood and Mcaleny will be a good front line, Blackwood looked decent yesterday and has a fair amount of skill. Rowe would be more effective playing behind the front two as he is dangerous on the edge of the box and will be harder for the oppositions centre backs to mark. Long balls up to Mcaleny yesterday were a waste of time, especially against two big defenders.

Baddan for me also looks a good signing, a bit of pace, decent defending, good going forward, did well with the cross yesterday which led to the goal, I also noticed that he isn't afraid to mix it with the opposition, got in a few faces yesterday.

Given a bit of patience and a couple more signings, there is the nucleus of a decent team.

 

Hillside, I respect your opinion and knowledge. I have not watched any of Latics competitive games this season as i am on a sabbatical until the Lemmies move on. 

 

I just think that the whole squad is desperately thin, there is no leadership in there and precious little height. I think pace and power are the key to the ability to compete in this division and I do not think that Latics are over blessed with pace and definitely lack power. Add to that the bizarre recruitment and constant meddling from the Boardroom and we are a million miles away. The fact that Wheater is available and would strengthen the team immediately but is frozen out by the owners suggests their game is not what is required. 

 

The opening fixtures couldn't have been handpicked better to give us a decent chance of some points, from games where I would feel 7 was the minimum requirement given the need to beat certain opposition then to achieve 0 is distinctly worrying.           

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For me it's not the recruitment that's the problem this year it's the retention. 

 

We should have kept McCann, Mills and Nepomuceno. It was obvious Mills was leaving in January, when he had played 29 games and was due a new contract on 30, so didn't get a sniff. I don't think it's a coincidence that Hamer has struggled since then - he knew he was playing every game. 

 

McCann is an obvious one we are missing a playmaker in midfield, our best passes from midfield were from the bloke nominally playing up front. 

 

Nepomuceno was the only one of his "French" imports to make an impact in League 1, he is more than capable of playing a number of positions too, so very handy as a squad player. 

 

The situation with Wheater is almost exactly like the situation with Mills but fast forward 6 months, or O'Grady from August last year. We offered him a contract that renewed after a certain number of games. The contract gets renewed but AL doesn't want to pay it, so the player is sent to the train with the youth. No player is going to sign a contract with that sort of clause any more, one that I think is common in the over 30s or for those with bad luck with injuries. As the way AL has behaved twice and arguably 3 times in 15 months shows those contracts shouldn't be signed with him. 

 

Woods may be similar but I think Lawlor has done arguably better 

 

You don't have to recruit to replace those players if you retain them properly. I think with Wheater playing we have at least a point from 3 games. 

 

As to the recruitment, I like what (little) I've seen from:

Lawlor 

Grant

Blackwood

Badan

Whelan

McCalmont

Barnett

 

While McAleny has some clear quality his size is to his detriment in League 2. 

 

I actually liked the FK from DKD yesterday, he saw an opportunity to shoot because their keeper's positioning was too far skewed towards the cross. If he had actually gone for the shot I think he may have scored. Instead because he was trying to disguise his intentions he missed as he isn't good enough to do it without making it obvious. However, by shooting he made their keeper more honest and their ability to deal with set-pieces worsened.  I think someone is going to beat their keeper in that situation this season. 

 

All that being said he is another one who is a little bit lightweight for League 2. 

 

I liked what I saw from Pidge and CBJ last season, and I don't think it's a coincidence that both have regressed without Wheater. 

 

I think we missed Dearnley yesterday, as while he perhaps isn't as good as McAleny, technique wise his size makes him more suited to League 2. He could be someone who ends up playing higher on a more permanent basis. 

 

TL:DR - Retain properly and recruitment is less important, although our recruitment is better than it was last year. 

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8 minutes ago, Behind Closed Doors said:

Rowe played ...we conceded 3 in both games ..as we did at Crawley in the last game of last season ...last 4 league games lost all 4 scored 2 conceded 10 

 

We lose possession far too easily, DKD and McAleny particularly weak, this leads to our defence caught with its pants down.

We need someone strong who can actually hold on to the ball like McCann.

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2 hours ago, unsworth blue said:

 

Hillside, I respect your opinion and knowledge. I have not watched any of Latics competitive games this season as i am on a sabbatical until the Lemmies move on. 

 

I just think that the whole squad is desperately thin, there is no leadership in there and precious little height. I think pace and power are the key to the ability to compete in this division and I do not think that Latics are over blessed with pace and definitely lack power. Add to that the bizarre recruitment and constant meddling from the Boardroom and we are a million miles away. The fact that Wheater is available and would strengthen the team immediately but is frozen out by the owners suggests their game is not what is required. 

 

The opening fixtures couldn't have been handpicked better to give us a decent chance of some points, from games where I would feel 7 was the minimum requirement given the need to beat certain opposition then to achieve 0 is distinctly worrying.           

Cant see how you can comment on current squad if you haven't watched any games. As for handpicked games who knows how good any team will be until at least ten games have been played. We deserved a point yesterday . And improved on previous games . I can't hear the door being banged down for Wheater . Just another stick to beat the club with . I'm sure there are a number of cheaper option commanding centre backs available , and hopefully one will find his way here.

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48 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

We lose possession far too easily, DKD and McAleny particularly weak, this leads to our defence caught with its pants down.

We need someone strong who can actually hold on to the ball like McCann.

Maarmia persuaded McCann to come back, after his disagreement with AL over pay. AL however, refused to accept the olive branch.

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6 hours ago, penrhyn said:

Cant see how you can comment on current squad if you haven't watched any games. As for handpicked games who knows how good any team will be until at least ten games have been played. We deserved a point yesterday . And improved on previous games . I can't hear the door being banged down for Wheater . Just another stick to beat the club with . I'm sure there are a number of cheaper option commanding centre backs available , and hopefully one will find his way here.

 

I have been watching Latics for 50 years + Penrhyn and know my football. I have not seen any games Latics have figured in competitively this season but anyone can see that the  squad is desperately thin. We have no big players in there, no leaders, a shortage of experienced players. Most of our players have got plenty of skills, tbh fair few of the French lads had, but its the blend that must be right. I thought Wheater was pretty shit last season after what i expected but would he make a positive difference to a lightweight defence? Yes. I would snatch your hands  off for a commanding centre half and a decent fee for Wheater but its not coming is it? As it is, Wheater is our player and been frozen out (sound familiar here?) and unless sense prevails he and Latics will get nothing from the rest of his stint here. 

 

We might be unlucky to lose to Crawley but come on, we were supposed to be unlucky to lose to Orient but we did that as well. We have got no points from three games which you would have wanted at least 6/7 on paper.  

I am not prepared to put another penny into this club whilst these owners are in situ, have put more than enough in over the years, will happily return once they have gone no matter what fucking Division/ League we are in.   Having watched Latics at over 150 grounds over the seasons and in over 2000 games I think i am still qualified for an opinion on OAFC. 

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Unsworth Blue . You have been watching them nearly as long as me then . As for the rest of what you said, everyone has an opinion . I think this year is a bit different with the uncertainty .I agree I would like a few more additions Wheater needs replacing quickly with similar. And another midfielder , but the signs are there   we could be half decent.  And I still don't think you can look at the opening fixtures and say 3 points here 1 there until at least ten games have been played . I am sure Leicester banked on 3 points at city lol. Anyways I hope things improve both on and off the pitch sufficiently for you to return. All the best an equally long suffering and qualified fan.

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People are still in denial, this a shit team thrown together by a clueless flat cap wearing clown. Its made up of none league and a few younger ones from up the football pyramid, a decent spine wont fix the problem. Were in for a massive struggle. People are still clowded by the fact there not french lads.

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18 hours ago, Behind Closed Doors said:

Rowe played ...we conceded 3 in both games ..as we did at Crawley in the last game of last season ...last 4 league games lost all 4 scored 2 conceded 10 


His job his scoring goals, not keeping them out.

 

By your logic it must be  Mahrez’s fault Leicester scored 5

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7 hours ago, penrhyn said:

Unsworth Blue . You have been watching them nearly as long as me then . As for the rest of what you said, everyone has an opinion . I think this year is a bit different with the uncertainty .I agree I would like a few more additions Wheater needs replacing quickly with similar. And another midfielder , but the signs are there   we could be half decent.  And I still don't think you can look at the opening fixtures and say 3 points here 1 there until at least ten games have been played . I am sure Leicester banked on 3 points at city lol. Anyways I hope things improve both on and off the pitch sufficiently for you to return. All the best an equally long suffering and qualified fan.

 

It's the end goal with your logic that puzzles me. We're here to win games and get promoted, not to add a few additions to a below average squad to keep us at this level of mid-table mediocrity. Granted, it takes time to build a squad, for them to gel, etc but it's been 12 years since we've even finished within the top 10. George Bush was still president then. The cherry on top is we have a new owner/manager telling us they're here to take us to the Championship. Not a fan of people settling for this standard of football whilst throwing pennies into the well and wishing for Jonny Smith.

 

Anyone could easily point out where there are holes in this squad but are they enough to take us up? Will the current ownership's supposed plan allow it? Will it put us back where we deserve to be? Wouldn't put my house on it. If anything it'll just mean surviving relegation - again.

Edited by No Pyro No Party
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Too depressed already to read this thread. I'm jus gona say I proper feel for Whelan at the end there he 100% expected to look up and see that go in, also don't forget that's his weaker foot.

Norn Iron kid looks promising  but we knew that.

My final opine is that I hope HK proper bollocked Rowe for their goal where he does that half arsed prepare to care thing three times in about five seconds. Proper pissed me off that, it's fine up their end bc you think they're gona go long and you've had to run over to him and he passed it, then you had to run over to to the other chap who then goes long (😡😡) but if you've dropped to the edge of your own box you've got to actually try. Once is jus about excusable, especially if you've scored and he's gona know what he's done, but he still needed singling out for it if he wants to play.

For the record if he is 85% fit I'm playing him week in week out I really like him, but he's only on 0.5 goals in my head (who cares 😂) bc he cancelled it out himself doing what he did and the other was in the u21 checkavan whatever it is.

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8 hours ago, penrhyn said:

Unsworth Blue . You have been watching them nearly as long as me then . As for the rest of what you said, everyone has an opinion . I think this year is a bit different with the uncertainty .I agree I would like a few more additions Wheater needs replacing quickly with similar. And another midfielder , but the signs are there   we could be half decent.  And I still don't think you can look at the opening fixtures and say 3 points here 1 there until at least ten games have been played . I am sure Leicester banked on 3 points at city lol. Anyways I hope things improve both on and off the pitch sufficiently for you to return. All the best an equally long suffering and qualified fan.

 

My point is that the squad is wafer thin Penrhyn, insufficient numbers for a start. I don't disagree that we look to have some half decent players but we did last season tbh however it didn't really materialise. A loss of form and suspension or two and we are having to rely on totally untried kids, they may come good and hopefully they will. As for the opening fixtures, I was using others' opinions on how they looked really (elsewhere on this Board), many were feeling that it offered us a good chance to get a flying start with some winnable looking games, in fairness Stevenage having not won for around  a calendar year and Crawley who hadn't won away for 16 months looked banker material I would think. After 10 games, how many points do you expect we can rack up now given our first 3 matches? Over the years I can think of only twice where Latics stayed up after losing our first 3 games, once was in 1979/80 when we lost to Newcastle, Wrexham and West Ham first up but recovered well to finish mid table, the other was a season where we lost the first 5 only to beat Bury 2-0 in the 6th (Allott scored a worldy) and we stayed up last game of the season. 

Off the pitch, only the departure of the Lemsagams will get me back to BP - I have seen enough in their tenure to hold absolutely no hope that they will start doing things properly (as per UK business/ football expectations). On the pitch - I will happily be there tomorrow when the Lemmies go no matter what league we are in. Same issues. 

My enforced sabbatical is due to the owners and the way they operate our once lovely club, results to me on the field are immaterial. 

All the best too Penrhyn, quite happy to agree or disagree when we both want the same   

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20 minutes ago, unsworth blue said:

Over the years I can think of only twice where Latics stayed up after losing our first 3 games, once was in 1979/80 when we lost to Newcastle, Wrexham and West Ham first up but recovered well to finish mid table, the other was a season where we lost the first 5 only to beat Bury 2-0 in the 6th (Allott scored a worldy) and we stayed up last game of the season. 

 

We lost the first three league games last season. 

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55 minutes ago, Monty Burns said:

Too depressed already to read this thread. I'm jus gona say I proper feel for Whelan at the end there he 100% expected to look up and see that go in, also don't forget that's his weaker foot.

Norn Iron kid looks promising  but we knew that.

My final opine is that I hope HK proper bollocked Rowe for their goal where he does that half arsed prepare to care thing three times in about five seconds. Proper pissed me off that, it's fine up their end bc you think they're gona go long and you've had to run over to him and he passed it, then you had to run over to to the other chap who then goes long (😡😡) but if you've dropped to the edge of your own box you've got to actually try. Once is jus about excusable, especially if you've scored and he's gona know what he's done, but he still needed singling out for it if he wants to play.

For the record if he is 85% fit I'm playing him week in week out I really like him, but he's only on 0.5 goals in my head (who cares 😂) bc he cancelled it out himself doing what he did and the other was in the u21 checkavan whatever it is.

If i was Kewell I'd be more bothered about their first goal.  What were our CBs doing?  The guy was just stood there unmarked, he didn't create space by arriving late (like Rowe for his goal) or drop back at the very last second (like McAleny did for his). He was just left totally unmarked a few yards from goal.  Awful defending.

 

Rowe should have closed down better, granted.

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I don't like Pidge and Jambutty as a two, we may have to go 352 with Hamer Pidge Jambutty and have Badan and Barnett as wing backs. Both left footed I know. Or Jam Pidge Barnett with Hamer and Badan as the wing backs.

Gives is an extra midfielder and play McAleny up front w Rowe who can drop if he wants.

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2 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

If i was Kewell I'd be more bothered about their first goal.  What were our CBs doing?  The guy was just stood there unmarked, he didn't create space by arriving late (like Rowe for his goal) or drop back at the very last second (like McAleny did for his). He was just left totally unmarked a few yards from goal.  Awful defending.

 

Rowe should have closed down better, granted.

Think the problem was Jombati left the scorer to help Hamer, who's increasingly looking like a liability at full back.

For a young lad he looks devoid of energy, callow and short of a decent meal. Perhaps he's overtraining but whatever the reason I've no doubt he'd benefit from a break.

The way he responded to Lawlor's rant after the first goal (walking off without responding, or even looking at him) show's something's not right. 

 

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I think this year's squad has more potential than last year. It just needs to be managed correctly. Lawlor is solid enough and shouldn't make too many mistakes. The defence is clearly an issue atm. I personally think the weakest point is hamer. I think he puts jombati under pressure with his positioning and all round poorness. Another CB would be ideal and move jombati over to RB. Badan has looked pretty good going forward but a little shaky defensively but there's something to work on there. The midfield maybe lacks a leader who can look to pick the ball up and use it. There's a lot of solid players, just need a driving force in there. Maybe the kid from Leeds could do a job once he settles in. In terms of forwards I think we're in the best position we've been in for a while. We all know Rowe knows where the net is. If dearnley can stay fit and keep up the form he showed towards the end of the last year then those 2 could get a decent partnership going. With mcaleny in there as well we shouldn't struggle for goals. I'm willing to give them a bit of time because I can see the potential. But sooner rather than later we'll have to start seeing results.....

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