al_bro Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 34 minutes ago, RobinsDuckEgg said: Not that relevant if he's got his head down and can't see them to give them the ball. The fact that he's playing at our level seems to indicate that's a problem that has never been solved. That's not correct. Look how many assists has he got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Typical Latics fans. This thread proves that when we can get back in, and if Baha is still here, there will be miserable sods dying to get on his back if he isn’t amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 49 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Typical Latics fans. This thread proves that when we can get back in, and if Baha is still here, there will be miserable sods dying to get on his back if he isn’t amazing. It also proves that, when we can get back in, and if Baha is still here, there will be blinkered sods who will criticise anyone who has the temerity to point out to the areas for improvement that would turn a good footballer into a very good footballer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinsDuckEgg Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 3 hours ago, al_bro said: That's not correct. Look how many assists has he got. No dispute about the number of assists. 7 in 31 matches, but none in his last 7 appearances. This suggests that now teams have learned to crowd him out his effectiveness has diminished and he’s not getting the ball through to all those spare men. If his passing was as good as the rest of his play, then he'd be way off those assist charts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, RobinsDuckEgg said: No dispute about the number of assists. 7 in 31 matches, but none in his last 7 appearances. This suggests that now teams have learned to crowd him out his effectiveness has diminished and he’s not getting the ball through to all those spare men. If his passing was as good as the rest of his play, then he'd be way off those assist charts. To find a colleague he needs support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 1 hour ago, TheBigDog said: It also proves that, when we can get back in, and if Baha is still here, there will be blinkered sods who will criticise anyone who has the temerity to point out to the areas for improvement that would turn a good footballer into a very good footballer. Fair enough. I’d rather just accept him for what he is. He’s likely to be gone soon enough. I don’t think I have the ability to improve him by shouting from the stand or posting in a forum. Knock yourself out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, kowenicki said: Fair enough. I’d rather just accept him for what he is. He’s likely to be gone soon enough. I don’t think I have the ability to improve him by shouting from the stand or posting in a forum. Knock yourself out. Slightly disingenuous there Kow. Nobody thinks they can improve a player by posting in a forum. It’s just opinion on what his strengths and weaknesses. As it is with every player. FWIW I think he’s a similar ilk to Baxter. As in, don’t ask maverick players who can win you a game to be disciplined. Kewell obviously thought along those lines, and Curle obviously doesn’t. Depends what said manager wants from a player like Bam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinsDuckEgg Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 As has been pointed out by numerous posters, Curle’s not bringing him on in the second half against Scunthorpe was an error. At some time in our matches he has to feature. Whether it’s from the start, or as a second half impact substitution, I’m easy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 9 hours ago, kowenicki said: I don’t think I have the ability to improve him by shouting from the stand or posting in a forum. Knock yourself out. What? You’re saying that my opinion on here doesn’t actually improve how a player performs on the pitch? Do they not listen? Disgraceful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 On 3/21/2021 at 12:57 AM, League one forever said: So the discussion about the manager is academic, but he has made a difference? How does that work? You can’t have it both ways. Either it’s an impossible Job. Or We just hire woefully inadequate managers who become an easy target for ire against the owners. Curle is the first appointment who has actual track record of promotion from league two, and oh look- he knows how to organise, he can get a side to keep their shape and players are starting to look like they know their role and best of all it turns out they can pass a ball. The manager does and always will matter. Even at our club. No, I reckon I can. I'm going to have my cake and eat it! Speaking as somebody who wasn't happy to see HK go, nor overwhelmed by his replacement, I have to acknowledge that KC has improved individuals and the overall shape of the team in a relatively short timeframe. If he can get us scoring for fun as well, as HK often did, bingo. But unless the Chuckle brothers have changed completely, we know that it will end in tears in due course, however good a job Curle does - it's just in their DNA (and, to be fair, KC may not want the job permanently anyway). Yes, the manager matters, but only in the context of a sensible, long-term strategy for getting this club out of L2 in the right direction. Until we see evidence of that, the manager could be Pep Guardiola and he'd still be falling out with the owners and leaving after only a few months. Bringing this back to the Bahamboula debate, which was maybe BP's original point, I'm afraid I'm a sucker for flair players who do the unexpected and can show that bit of magic on the pitch. I'd want Bahamboula in the starting XI every match. If KC sees it differently, fair enough, he'll be judged on his results. Speaking of which, after 1 win in 10, we desperately need another one, and hopefully we are pretty close based on the performance v Bradford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 17 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: No, I reckon I can. I'm going to have my cake and eat it! Speaking as somebody who wasn't happy to see HK go, nor overwhelmed by his replacement, I have to acknowledge that KC has improved individuals and the overall shape of the team in a relatively short timeframe. If he can get us scoring for fun as well, as HK often did, bingo. But unless the Chuckle brothers have changed completely, we know that it will end in tears in due course, however good a job Curle does - it's just in their DNA (and, to be fair, KC may not want the job permanently anyway). Yes, the manager matters, but only in the context of a sensible, long-term strategy for getting this club out of L2 in the right direction. Until we see evidence of that, the manager could be Pep Guardiola and he'd still be falling out with the owners and leaving after only a few months. Bringing this back to the Bahamboula debate, which was maybe BP's original point, I'm afraid I'm a sucker for flair players who do the unexpected and can show that bit of magic on the pitch. I'd want Bahamboula in the starting XI every match. If KC sees it differently, fair enough, he'll be judged on his results. Speaking of which, after 1 win in 10, we desperately need another one, and hopefully we are pretty close based on the performance v Bradford. People keep conflating ‘the long term stability of the club’ with tactics, shape, coaching and team selection. We don’t have any stability so why discuss it in the present climate. It’s moot. Our best chance (albeit slim) is with a proven manager/coach. Instead of nobodies, rookies or AL’s mates. KC is the first appointment with promotion on his CV, in his first few games he turned a side all over the place into a solid unit. Whether he stays or goes is anybody’s guess. But he’s already made a huge difference at a club where ‘it’s impossible.’ It’s not impossible. Just hire a decent coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlemoor Lad Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, League one forever said: People keep conflating ‘the long term stability of the club’ with tactics, shape, coaching and team selection. We don’t have any stability so why discuss it in the present climate. It’s moot. Our best chance (albeit slim) is with a proven manager/coach. Instead of nobodies, rookies or AL’s mates. KC is the first appointment with promotion on his CV, in his first few games he turned a side all over the place into a solid unit. Whether he stays or goes is anybody’s guess. But he’s already made a huge difference at a club where ‘it’s impossible.’ It’s not impossible. Just hire a decent coach. Looking forward to watching tomorrow nights game and how he'll set up for this battle. One things for sure, we'll need to score here because no doubts they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 34 minutes ago, League one forever said: People keep conflating ‘the long term stability of the club’ with tactics, shape, coaching and team selection. We don’t have any stability so why discuss it in the present climate. It’s moot. Our best chance (albeit slim) is with a proven manager/coach. Instead of nobodies, rookies or AL’s mates. KC is the first appointment with promotion on his CV, in his first few games he turned a side all over the place into a solid unit. Whether he stays or goes is anybody’s guess. But he’s already made a huge difference at a club where ‘it’s impossible.’ It’s not impossible. Just hire a decent coach. One thing I'd add to your last line... Just hire a decent coach and let him get on with his job. Short term - totally agree, a better manager can get better results. But if the rest of the club operates in the same shit way, then ultimately it's going to end up with the same outcome no matter how good Curle may end up being over the next few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 31 minutes ago, nzlatic said: One thing I'd add to your last line... Just hire a decent coach and let him get on with his job. Short term - totally agree, a better manager can get better results. But if the rest of the club operates in the same shit way, then ultimately it's going to end up with the same outcome no matter how good Curle may end up being over the next few games. Quite. Although to be fair NZ the only sacking that was indefensible was Bunn. The rest you could make a case for. But the sackings aren’t the issue, it’s the hiring. ALMO shoot themselves in the foot by wanting success on the cheap, and constantly hiring below par managers and then being surprised their results are below par. Why are we 9 appointments into their reign before we’ve got a manager/coach with pedigree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Littlemoor Lad said: Looking forward to watching tomorrow nights game and how he'll set up for this battle. One things for sure, we'll need to score here because no doubts they will. We’ll never be free scoring under KC. You can already tell, he favours keeping shape rather than free spirits just running around. Now I don’t mind less goals as long as the football is ok/decent to watch- and it is under Curle. If it becomes Dino type football, where you don’t concede and offer zero threat, and/or any flow to our play he’ll be a goner. But I don’t think it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 hours ago, League one forever said: People keep conflating ‘the long term stability of the club’ with tactics, shape, coaching and team selection. We don’t have any stability so why discuss it in the present climate. It’s moot. Our best chance (albeit slim) is with a proven manager/coach. Instead of nobodies, rookies or AL’s mates. KC is the first appointment with promotion on his CV, in his first few games he turned a side all over the place into a solid unit. Whether he stays or goes is anybody’s guess. But he’s already made a huge difference at a club where ‘it’s impossible.’ It’s not impossible. Just hire a decent coach. Come on. I've given him credit, but to say he's made a "huge" difference after four (effectively three) games in charge is as short-term as damning the guy as negative because he hasn't been starting Bahamboula in those few games. Why discuss stability? Maybe because Keith Curle is the 8th appointment since Lemsagam's takeover was ratified a mere 26 months ago. 8 managers in 26 months. This is precisely why I took issue with BP's comment that Curle is negative, after two games in charge. I don't think that charge is fair so early in his tenure, but the far bigger point is that it doesn't really matter. He won't be given the time, the budget or the freedom to show us whether he can build a promotion-winning team. Whether he's decent or not is irrelevant. So yes, with these owners, it really is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 56 minutes ago, League one forever said: ALMO shoot themselves in the foot by wanting success on the cheap, and constantly hiring below par managers and then being surprised their results are below par. Not just the managers which are sub-par though. We're set up to fail in nearly every department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Worcester Owl said: Come on. I've given him credit, but to say he's made a "huge" difference after four (effectively three) games in charge is as short-term as damning the guy as negative because he hasn't been starting Bahamboula in those few games. Why discuss stability? Maybe because Keith Curle is the 8th appointment since Lemsagam's takeover was ratified a mere 26 months ago. 8 managers in 26 months. This is precisely why I took issue with BP's comment that Curle is negative, after two games in charge. I don't think that charge is fair so early in his tenure, but the far bigger point is that it doesn't really matter. He won't be given the time, the budget or the freedom to show us whether he can build a promotion-winning team. Whether he's decent or not is irrelevant. So yes, with these owners, it really is impossible. The discussion is about whether any manger or coach can make a difference at our club. You now state It is indeed impossible. Fair enough. But then you praise managers which makes no sense when you state it’s impossible. It wasn’t impossible when Kewell went on our best away run for twenty years this season. It wasn’t impossible when players who seemingly can’t pass a ball, play to a position or have any any tactical awareness now suddenly look like they can. The owners are obviously a massive issue, but so is there recruitment of absolute dross managers. Then surprise surprise they have to sack them. KC might turn out to be shit, or get the boot but at the very least they’ve gone for and attracted someone with pedigree. If he is given it for next season, I’d expect to be top half. Which given the climate at the club the quality of the manager and the under investment is the best we can hope with these in charge. But it’s better than 18th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, oafcmetty said: Not just the managers which are sub-par though. We're set up to fail in nearly every department. Aye, very true. The support around the first team is non existent which does hinder any manager. But then we’ve always been tin pot in a lot of respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 48 minutes ago, League one forever said: The discussion is about whether any manger or coach can make a difference at our club. You now state It is indeed impossible. Fair enough. But then you praise managers which makes no sense when you state it’s impossible. It wasn’t impossible when Kewell went on our best away run for twenty years this season. It wasn’t impossible when players who seemingly can’t pass a ball, play to a position or have any any tactical awareness now suddenly look like they can. The owners are obviously a massive issue, but so is there recruitment of absolute dross managers. Then surprise surprise they have to sack them. KC might turn out to be shit, or get the boot but at the very least they’ve gone for and attracted someone with pedigree. If he is given it for next season, I’d expect to be top half. Which given the climate at the club the quality of the manager and the under investment is the best we can hope with these in charge. But it’s better than 18th. Are you both having a discussion on what amount of difference constitutes making a difference? My view is that any manager, even under these owners, is capable of going on a run of a few games. But that while these owners are in charge, assuming they don't drastically alter their methods, no manager is capable of sustaining a season long promotion push. For starters they don't usually get transfer windows, and when they do they aren't in control of the players that come in. They also ultimately don't have control over who they get to play as at any given point (usually the point where AL decides he's had enough of honouring someone's contract) they could lose 1st team players. So ultimately it doesn't matter who is in the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, nzlatic said: Are you both having a discussion on what amount of difference constitutes making a difference? My view is that any manager, even under these owners, is capable of going on a run of a few games. But that while these owners are in charge, assuming they don't drastically alter their methods, no manager is capable of sustaining a season long promotion push. For starters they don't usually get transfer windows, and when they do they aren't in control of the players that come in. They also ultimately don't have control over who they get to play as at any given point (usually the point where AL decides he's had enough of honouring someone's contract) they could lose 1st team players. So ultimately it doesn't matter who is in the job. Are you both having a discussion on what amount of difference constitutes making a difference? I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidge Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 16 hours ago, League one forever said: Quite. Although to be fair NZ the only sacking that was indefensible was Bunn. The rest you could make a case for. But the sackings aren’t the issue, it’s the hiring. ALMO shoot themselves in the foot by wanting success on the cheap, and constantly hiring below par managers and then being surprised their results are below par. Why are we 9 appointments into their reign before we’ve got a manager/coach with pedigree? Just looking at your recent posts L1, you blame managers for signing up under this owner kind of implying they should know better, then say ALMO constantly hire below par managers (records agree with you). Maybe after the applications for the job, few decent ones have applied and the ones that do pull out, leaving the desperate, or new. Any decent desperate manager would not want to stay hence signing only to the end of the season. Any manager signing up will be taking a gamble on a run of results that will creat interest from a “better” owner. Anyway you look at it we are f—ked until this owner leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott2 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 17 hours ago, League one forever said: The discussion is about whether any manger or coach can make a difference at our club. Of course they can. Both the previous Head Coach and the current CEO have recently said Kewell was in charge of the recruitment (why we still employ a Sporting Director if that is the case is a different debate completely!) and in charge of selection and tactics. A decent manager, which I hope 0 wins in 4 Keith is, can still get good enough players in and perform well. Other clubs managed it despite lunatic owners - Blackpool, Coventry, Bury immediately come to mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 18 hours ago, Worcester Owl said: Come on. I've given him credit, but to say he's made a "huge" difference after four (effectively three) games in charge is as short-term as damning the guy as negative because he hasn't been starting Bahamboula in those few games. Why discuss stability? Maybe because Keith Curle is the 8th appointment since Lemsagam's takeover was ratified a mere 26 months ago. 8 managers in 26 months. This is precisely why I took issue with BP's comment that Curle is negative, after two games in charge. I don't think that charge is fair so early in his tenure, but the far bigger point is that it doesn't really matter. He won't be given the time, the budget or the freedom to show us whether he can build a promotion-winning team. Whether he's decent or not is irrelevant. So yes, with these owners, it really is impossible. What KC has done is to bring a shape to the team which was dysfunctional under HK. Some players such as Whelan and Fage have benefitted from this. On the other side of the coin our most exciting player Bahamboula hasn't. We will no doubt have a new manager next season so it's all conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 On the subject of maverick flair players, this was one of the greats..https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/23/frank-worthington-former-england-leicester-forward-dies-aged-72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.