tGWB Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, oafc1955 said: If ambition ends at league 1 we might as well pack it all in now. The lack of any sort of success over the last 30 years has brainwashed some of our fan base into accepting mediocrity!! I really hope the top clubs do break away into a European super league...having City & United playing less games and not dominating our domestic league I think would help ourselves and the smaller clubs to attract extra fans and create more interest in the lower leagues!! It's staring us in the face We have never won a Knock Out Cup 1970/71 Div4 Runners Up and we're back there now 1972/73 Div3 Champions 1990/91 Div2 Champions (now the Championship) Our Home attendances even whilst we were in the Premier League averaged below 13,000 Our promotion year of 90/91 we averaged 15,700 (which considering our ground was pretty good) We have been 'struggling' financially for decades yet no one has come forward with pots of money to significantly change our fortunes, so little point in thinking anyone ever will Absolutely we should have aspirations to punch above our weight with the immediate ambition of getting into the playoffs and hopefully promoted into League One 'Mediocrity' for me isn't aspiring to be a top10 League One club, playing attractive attacking football and making Boundary Park a fortress where most teams, regardless of their League status dreaded coming because we were so hard to beat If Boundary Park became a fortress, for sure we would increase our attendances but to the extent we could sustain ourselves as a Championship club, I seriously doubt Where are these additional supporters going to come from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, oafc1955 said: If ambition ends at league 1 we might as well pack it all in now. The lack of any sort of success over the last 30 years has brainwashed some of our fan base into accepting mediocrity!! I really hope the top clubs do break away into a European super league...having City & United playing less games and not dominating our domestic league I think would help ourselves and the smaller clubs to attract extra fans and create more interest in the lower leagues!! Ambition should be much higher. Without a doubt. But the likelihood of us getting into the championship in the next 15 years is low. Something dramatic would need to change. Does not getting into the championship in that timeframe represent a failure? No, not of its self and not given where we are. There are several stages of ‘success’ before then. I’d focus on those. getting promoted from league 2 in a manner which doesn’t undermine the long term stability of the club (and ideally reinforces it) is the current goal surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Hate that phrase, accepting mediocrity, so meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, tGWB said: It's staring us in the face We have never won a Knock Out Cup 1970/71 Div4 Runners Up and we're back there now 1972/73 Div3 Champions 1990/91 Div2 Champions (now the Championship) Our Home attendances even whilst we were in the Premier League averaged below 13,000 Our promotion year of 90/91 we averaged 15,700 (which considering our ground was pretty good) We have been 'struggling' financially for decades yet no one has come forward with pots of money to significantly change our fortunes, so little point in thinking anyone ever will Absolutely we should have aspirations to punch above our weight with the immediate ambition of getting into the playoffs and hopefully promoted into League One 'Mediocrity' for me isn't aspiring to be a top10 League One club, playing attractive attacking football and making Boundary Park a fortress where most teams, regardless of their League status dreaded coming because we were so hard to beat If Boundary Park became a fortress, for sure we would increase our attendances but to the extent we could sustain ourselves as a Championship club, I seriously doubt Where are these additional supporters going to come from ? If the main stand and the Chaddy were rebuilt giving us a capacity of say 18000. We could possibly get 12000 of our own fans, if we were playing well. The away attendancies would be high, and we would need to get as much cash out of them as possible. That would need a lot of investment, which would only come from the right owners. Only then would we stand a chance of sustaining a Championship side. One lucky season and we could be in the PL and earn enough cash to keep the club going in the Championship for a few more years after being relegated from the PL in the first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 20 minutes ago, al_bro said: If the main stand and the Chaddy were rebuilt giving us a capacity of say 18000. We could possibly get 12000 of our own fans, if we were playing well. The away attendancies would be high, and we would need to get as much cash out of them as possible. That would need a lot of investment, which would only come from the right owners. Only then would we stand a chance of sustaining a Championship side. One lucky season and we could be in the PL and earn enough cash to keep the club going in the Championship for a few more years after being relegated from the PL in the first season. Meanwhile on planet earth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 30 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Hate that phrase, accepting mediocrity, so meaningless. My bugbear. It is what it is. . . For literally any scenario where you got nothing to say or add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 34 minutes ago, al_bro said: If the main stand and the Chaddy were rebuilt giving us a capacity of say 18000. We could possibly get 12000 of our own fans, if we were playing well. The away attendancies would be high, and we would need to get as much cash out of them as possible. That would need a lot of investment, which would only come from the right owners. Only then would we stand a chance of sustaining a Championship side. One lucky season and we could be in the PL and earn enough cash to keep the club going in the Championship for a few more years after being relegated from the PL in the first season. We dont need to increase our ground capacity al_bro The forum is for exchanging opinions and its not a bad thing to disagree I have yet to see anybody explain where all these extra supporters are coming from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 28 minutes ago, tGWB said: I have yet to see anybody explain where all these extra supporters are coming from Well we did get 48,000 v Sheffield Wednesday in 1930... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyt84 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 37 minutes ago, tGWB said: We dont need to increase our ground capacity al_bro The forum is for exchanging opinions and its not a bad thing to disagree I have yet to see anybody explain where all these extra supporters are coming from If we are playing well consistently we will get more supporters through the gate. It has happened before and will again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longlostfan Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 This league is relatively even. It isn't really dominated by big income freshly relegated sides looking to return to the division above. With almost no points from home we are 'comfortably mid table'. A couple of home wins would put us in contention. A sensible thought through strategy would have a good chance of working.( It will always need a bit of luck- its a game of fine margins) When you look at the numbers brought in, and the expense of paying a number of them off you have to believe it could be done better. Build a core, bring some young blood through over time, thought through loans. Make it an attractive 'fun' place to ply your trade. Keep some of that core for several years so each recruit is part of a planned improvement rather than starting from scratch every August. As to the original topic- good outcome. No off field storms. Win more than we lose. Bam contract extended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 New ownership would be best outcome for this season and that will always be the case until the Lemsagams go. In terms of what we should be aiming at well the majority of our history if you look at the long trajectory of 125 years has been spent in the 2 and 3rd tiers that's where we should be aiming at. I've been a little exasperated when I see people describe this season as entertaining. For me when you support a football club you should want them to be the best they can be and win as many matches as possible. Being 16th/17th in league 2 is not entertaining its failure. I can't take anything from us losing 3-2 at home to Harrogate Town. Alot gets made about teams natural levels our natural level is probably league 1 it doesn't mean that's the final destination if we got their we could go higher it wouldn't be beyond us to go to the championship and stay there for a number of years. It doesn't mean we won't come back down at some point but it's not an unrealistic possibility. Even getting to the premier league is an actual possibility its highly unlikely and it would require us to get very lucky, it probably wouldn't last long but it would be a possibility. If you go back far enough the likes of Burnley, Bournemouth, Huddersfield would have seen top flight football as an impossibility but it has happened for them. How many Wycombe fans ever thought they would get to the championship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: New ownership would be best outcome for this season is new ownership and that will always be the case until the Lemsagams go. In terms of what we should be aiming at well the majority of our history if you look at the long trajectory of 125 years has been spent in the 2 and 3rd tiers that's where we should be aiming at. I've been a little exasperated when I see people describe this season as entertaining. For me when you support a football club you should want them to be the best they can be and win as many matches as possible. Being 16th/17th in league 2 is not entertaining its failure. I can't take anything from us losing 3-2 at home to Harrogate Town. Alot gets made about teams natural levels our natural level is probably league 1 it doesn't mean that's the final destination if we got their we could go higher it wouldn't be beyond us to go to the championship and stay there for a number of years. It doesn't mean we won't come back down at some point but it's not an unrealistic possibility. Even getting to the premier league is an actual possibility its highly unlikely and it would require us to get very lucky, it probably wouldn't last long but it would be a possibility. If you go back far enough the likes of Burnley, Bournemouth, Huddersfield would have seen top flight football as an impossibility but it has happened for them. How many Wycombe fans ever thought they would get to the championship? There is difference between entertainment and success. I don’t think anybody is claiming that 14th in league two is successful, or what we should be happy with. However I think this season has been entertaining-football at any level is about seeing goals, and while any fan wants to win every game. I’d far rather watch 3-2 game than 0-0 or 0-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tGWB Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 43 minutes ago, Andyt84 said: If we are playing well consistently we will get more supporters through the gate. It has happened before and will again. of course we will but we have averaged 4,500 over the last 10 years At a fans Q&A the board stated we need 6,000 just to break even, which am confident we could still get Can you really see us getting regular crowds of say 8,000 plus because I just dont see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, tGWB said: of course we will but we have averaged 4,500 over the last 10 years At a fans Q&A the board stated we need 6,000 just to break even, which am confident we could still get Can you really see us getting regular crowds of say 8,000 plus because I just dont see it The only way we are getting 8k plus is for one or one two home games in league one and 8-10 games if we got to the championship. It would be the exception and not the norm. It would take years of sustained success to get that as an average gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 hours ago, League one forever said: The only way we are getting 8k plus is for one or one two home games in league one and 8-10 games if we got to the championship. It would be the exception and not the norm. It would take years of sustained success to get that as an average gate. It’s also taken us years of sustained failure to get us to where we are now. We’ve had almost 30 years of total shite. I can’t remember the last time we won 4 on the bounce or even having a + goal difference. We’ve just never even put a half decent run together probably since the Dowie period!! If we could start to regularly win football matches and challenge at the top of this division I have no doubt our home crowds would hover around the 6k mark, whether or not we could achieve that under our current ownership is questionable as we have been reduced to a laughingstock since AL turned up! We definitely need a sustained period of success and possibly even a man with a plan to move this club forward. Over the last 25 years I have heard it said we are just about the least successful football club in the entire football league. Over the last 16 years post Chris Moore we have only lost about 2.5k fans I think we have done rather well to keep 4k coming through the turnstiles. All it would take is one good season......It certainly wouldn’t take 16 years to get them back!! It seems an almost impossible task for this club but we just need to start winning football matches on a regular basis and see where it takes us....it’s as simple as that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 7 hours ago, oafc1955 said: It’s also taken us years of sustained failure to get us to where we are now. We’ve had almost 30 years of total shite. I can’t remember the last time we won 4 on the bounce or even having a + goal difference. We’ve just never even put a half decent run together probably since the Dowie period!! If we could start to regularly win football matches and challenge at the top of this division I have no doubt our home crowds would hover around the 6k mark, whether or not we could achieve that under our current ownership is questionable as we have been reduced to a laughingstock since AL turned up! We definitely need a sustained period of success and possibly even a man with a plan to move this club forward. Over the last 25 years I have heard it said we are just about the least successful football club in the entire football league. Over the last 16 years post Chris Moore we have only lost about 2.5k fans I think we have done rather well to keep 4k coming through the turnstiles. All it would take is one good season......It certainly wouldn’t take 16 years to get them back!! It seems an almost impossible task for this club but we just need to start winning football matches on a regular basis and see where it takes us....it’s as simple as that!! This is an interesting point we haven't had a period of sustained success even a promotion season to test the level of dormant support in the last 25 years. A period of success over a couple of years plus backed up by things such as good PR and marketing in the town plus making Boundary park more hospitable could really drive an improvement in support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 It isnt about attracting back those who don't go anymore. Many of those are never going to be regular attendees again. It's about attracting a whole new generation of supporters and in this age I'm not sure that a run at the fourth division play offs will do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Dave_Og said: It isnt about attracting back those who don't go anymore. Many of those are never going to be regular attendees again. It's about attracting a whole new generation of supporters and in this age I'm not sure that a run at the fourth division play offs will do it Young people still love going to football matches and in a post covid world I don't think that will change alright we won't get huge amounts coming down en Masse but it is possible to win over a new generation of supporters if we do the right things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, GlossopLatic said: Young people still love going to football matches and in a post covid world I don't think that will change alright we won't get huge amounts coming down en Masse but it is possible to win over a new generation of supporters if we do the right things. But is there a lost generation of people to introduce them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 9 hours ago, oafc1955 said: It’s also taken us years of sustained failure to get us to where we are now. We’ve had almost 30 years of total shite. I can’t remember the last time we won 4 on the bounce or even having a + goal difference. We’ve just never even put a half decent run together probably since the Dowie period!! If we could start to regularly win football matches and challenge at the top of this division I have no doubt our home crowds would hover around the 6k mark, whether or not we could achieve that under our current ownership is questionable as we have been reduced to a laughingstock since AL turned up! We definitely need a sustained period of success and possibly even a man with a plan to move this club forward. Over the last 25 years I have heard it said we are just about the least successful football club in the entire football league. Over the last 16 years post Chris Moore we have only lost about 2.5k fans I think we have done rather well to keep 4k coming through the turnstiles. All it would take is one good season......It certainly wouldn’t take 16 years to get them back!! It seems an almost impossible task for this club but we just need to start winning football matches on a regular basis and see where it takes us....it’s as simple as that!! We averaged 6300 in the play off season under Sheridan. So there’s a ‘recent’ precedent though crowds hadn’t fallen much below that during the seasons when we struggled in l1 prior to that. tragedy is that we simply don’t know whether a degree of success will boost our crowds because we don’t really have any recent experience to point to. 6k would be a nice target but I don’t see an average above that whilst we are in league 1 or 2, no matter how good we are on the pitch. championship could be different but that’s another stratosphere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 14 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: But is there a lost generation of people to introduce them? If everyone, who say that they are not going again until ALMOBO have gone, do return we’ll have crowds of over 10,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 minute ago, TheBigDog said: If everyone, who say that they are not going again until ALMOBO have gone, do return we’ll have crowds of over 10,000 Nah, that's ten people who've each said it a thousand times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 It's a lot more than just getting old fans back. To get crowds of 6,000 home gang, we'd probably need to tap into a group of 2/2,500 new supporters and get them to come to Boundary Park every other week. Tough gig, I reckon.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 35 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: But is there a lost generation of people to introduce them? Possibly. Children of the pinch me era that may have drifted away could have kids the right sort of age to be introduced. I count myself in that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 15 minutes ago, nzlatic said: Possibly. Children of the pinch me era that may have drifted away could have kids the right sort of age to be introduced. I count myself in that category. It would be interesting to understand the demographics of our fan base. In theory there should be a high proportion of people in their say late 30s to mid 40s who started supporting the team due to the royle era and who might otherwise have started watching another team back then if it wasn’t for our success and so wouldn’t be Latics fans today I actually think that is what underpins our very good away followings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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