Ackey Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 10 hours ago, deyres42 said: They might love it but they are not paying to watch it which is the name of this particular game. Yes and No. There's an old saying which has taken on more weight in recent years, which is "If you're not paying for something, then you are the product." That's to say that they don't need people paying a subscription (though of course they want that income too). They want people watching the heavily advertised product, the metadata they can capture from the online habits of those watching, the political power gained from influencing those people (sportswashing being the obvious but not unique one), etc. The gap I see in what is being said a lot right now is "Football is A, this is B" - that's not true. The ESL is an extension (and barely one at that) of what already happens today. These teams don't fear relegation - they are 99.9% sure to stay up - they just want more more more. The PL opened that door, Sky ran through it, we all watched it happen. Then Agents took hold, then super-agents, then BT and Amazon came along, FIFA and UEFA ballooned in to corrupt money pits. The game moved on from it's socialist roots before most people on here were out of school, many were not even born. The seeds were sewn, they've been harvested a few times before and this is just another one of those. Even if the ESL doesn't happen these 12 teams will increase their power and wealth... I mean, United are worth over $250 million more today than before the announcement. It's working, we're just angry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Ackey said: The seeds were sewn, they've been harvested a few times before and this is just another one of those. Even if the ESL doesn't happen these 12 teams will increase their power and wealth... I mean, United are worth over $250 million more today than before the announcement. It's working, we're just angry about that. Well... even after that increase Man U is still worth a few hundred million less than it was a month ago and over a billon dollars less than it was in 2018. Football as a business is a joke... it is dying in an exhausting chase for ever more revenue that they just burn through paying players ever more in salaries. It appears that they are able to find new ways of keeping this rolling, but I doubt it can continue forever and there will be big casualties one day. If this new league doesn't happen then there is a good chance Barcelona could be that first victim... lets hope so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 16 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Football as a business is a joke... it is dying in an exhausting chase for ever more revenue that they just burn through paying players ever more in salaries. There is a fair chance that this is the solution to that. No top European league was ever going to cap salaries unless they all did so; this way the top clubs can agree to cap salaries, operate salary bands etc. in the same way that American sport does. They could even emulate the path to competitiveness in that sphere by initiating some sort of draft process for young players. If it succeeds then doubtless players will be very well rewarded but this is the way of guaranteeing that the owners reap the lions' share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 18 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: There is a fair chance that this is the solution to that. No top European league was ever going to cap salaries unless they all did so; this way the top clubs can agree to cap salaries, operate salary bands etc. in the same way that American sport does. They could even emulate the path to competitiveness in that sphere by initiating some sort of draft process for young players. If it succeeds then doubtless players will be very well rewarded but this is the way of guaranteeing that the owners reap the lions' share. I think is a massive part of their motivation/aspiration for it. They see a world in which the national leagues supply their elite league with players akin to the US College game. It's bullshit at it's finest and I oppose it as much as I'm fascinated by it... but teams like Latics could ultimately be more sustainable from it, in reality. It comes at a cost many (very reasonably) will find too much. But the game's unsustainable as it is - it needs something to change and maybe this lot fucking off is just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bobby Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Man Utd stock exchange value increased by 15% on Monday, but it wasn't realised that they will be removed from all other competitions. Also Oliver Dowden stated that a windfall tax will be imposed on these 6 clubs. That could be as much as 90% of the 250million received every year. That would bankrupt the lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, Wee Bobby said: Man Utd stock exchange value increased by 15% on Monday, but it wasn't realised that they will be removed from all other competitions. Also Oliver Dowden stated that a windfall tax will be imposed on these 6 clubs. That could be as much as 90% of the 250million received every year. That would bankrupt the lot of them. We can't even tax Starbucks efficiently. It will be Manchester united (Cayman Islands) Ltd and will be outside the reach of the exchequer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 I note many on here are referring to this abhorrence as the ESL when I don't think the protagonists are using the "European" prefix, perhaps for sinister reasons. If these hyenas get their way and alienate the local "legacy" supporters the next logical step is to relocate nearer to the powerbase. We can look forward to watching Abu Dhabi City, Tampa Bay United, Boston Red Scousers and Tel Aviv Hotspur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said: We can look forward to watching Abu Dhabi City, Tampa Bay United, Boston Red Scousers and Tel Aviv Hotspur. Entirely likely but I won't be 'looking forward to watching' as I won't be watching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 27 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: Entirely likely but I won't be 'looking forward to watching' as I won't be watching Me neither.......it was an attempt at irony !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said: Me neither.......it was an attempt at irony !! Tricky in writing - as I have found out to my cost many times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: Tricky in writing - as I have found out to my cost many times! We live and learn..........so they say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 39 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said: I note many on here are referring to this abhorrence as the ESL when I don't think the protagonists are using the "European" prefix, perhaps for sinister reasons. If these hyenas get their way and alienate the local "legacy" supporters the next logical step is to relocate nearer to the powerbase. We can look forward to watching Abu Dhabi City, Tampa Bay United, Boston Red Scousers and Tel Aviv Hotspur. That's a very good point - one they made on Football Weekly too. The NFL's International Series (which I selfishly love, as an NFL fan with a 'season ticket' to the London games) shows these owners have no concern with moving games. So the teams may well remain Manchester and Liverpool in name, but they will quite possibly play 'select games' internationally. The meaningless pre-season games in the US and Asia pull 80,000+ fans... frankly they'd be mad not to accommodate that and play games in those locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 45 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said: I note many on here are referring to this abhorrence as the ESL when I don't think the protagonists are using the "European" prefix, perhaps for sinister reasons. If these hyenas get their way and alienate the local "legacy" supporters the next logical step is to relocate nearer to the powerbase. We can look forward to watching Abu Dhabi City, Tampa Bay United, Boston Red Scousers and Tel Aviv Hotspur. Well its happened in 20/20 cricket here where cricket counties have been changed to city names like Birmingham Bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Ackey said: Yes and No. There's an old saying which has taken on more weight in recent years, which is "If you're not paying for something, then you are the product." That's to say that they don't need people paying a subscription (though of course they want that income too). They want people watching the heavily advertised product, the metadata they can capture from the online habits of those watching, the political power gained from influencing those people (sportswashing being the obvious but not unique one), etc. The gap I see in what is being said a lot right now is "Football is A, this is B" - that's not true. The ESL is an extension (and barely one at that) of what already happens today. These teams don't fear relegation - they are 99.9% sure to stay up - they just want more more more. The PL opened that door, Sky ran through it, we all watched it happen. Then Agents took hold, then super-agents, then BT and Amazon came along, FIFA and UEFA ballooned in to corrupt money pits. The game moved on from it's socialist roots before most people on here were out of school, many were not even born. The seeds were sewn, they've been harvested a few times before and this is just another one of those. Even if the ESL doesn't happen these 12 teams will increase their power and wealth... I mean, United are worth over $250 million more today than before the announcement. It's working, we're just angry about that. The stock exchange is volatile and £250m profit today can become an even bigger loss tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 14 minutes ago, BP1960 said: Well its happened in 20/20 cricket here where cricket counties have been changed to city names like Birmingham Bears. At least it's Birmingham in Warwickshire not Birmingham Alabama ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Premier league players demanding £1 million week (which they will get) while the big 6 club owners moan about losing money due to Covid. Sweden imposes a 57.19% tax on high earners. Let's do the same to this greedy lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 13 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said: At least it's Birmingham in Warwickshire not Birmingham Alabama ! Might happen here, there's an Oldham in the USA too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobledgersheart Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 6 minutes ago, BP1960 said: Premier league players demanding £1 million week (which they will get) while the big 6 club owners moan about losing money due to Covid. Sweden imposes a 57.19% tax on high earners. Let's do the same to this greedy lot. I remember a few years back Allardyce saying we should reduce the tax for footballers to make it more attractive to foreigners. What planet are they on ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 27 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said: I remember a few years back Allardyce saying we should reduce the tax for footballers to make it more attractive to foreigners. What planet are they on ! That's the Sam Allardyce who would prefer to be paid under the table in a brown envelope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Ackey said: That's a very good point - one they made on Football Weekly too. The NFL's International Series (which I selfishly love, as an NFL fan with a 'season ticket' to the London games) shows these owners have no concern with moving games. So the teams may well remain Manchester and Liverpool in name, but they will quite possibly play 'select games' internationally. The meaningless pre-season games in the US and Asia pull 80,000+ fans... frankly they'd be mad not to accommodate that and play games in those locations. The term 'Football Club' was removed from the United's team badge in 1998, sole reason was to appeal to international fans. Absolutely no doubt at all that the European Super League will become an international series competition. One problem being what will the competition look like? Who is going to buy PPV's for PSG vs Schalke who are at the bottom of the ESL and 15 points adrift? The competition can't be in a format we're accustomed to, it has to change to appeal. US market has no comprehension of relegation, I assume now it's something to do with budgeting for the next season - easier to project when you're never going to leave the elite league. So it worth considering how this will play out, how long before the likes of Tottenham or Arsenal or Athletico get cut adrift because they can't maintain their PPV quota? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, BP1960 said: Well its happened in 20/20 cricket here where cricket counties have been changed to city names like Birmingham Bears. I guess you won't see this but that's completely different as there has been no relocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Current debt Real Madrid 900m euros Barcelona 1.2 billion euros Man United 600m pounds Juventus 400m euros Spurs 480m pounds These figures will likely be worse at the next release of data. I wonder what the thinking is behind this move....? Its a quick fix for rank bad and reckless management. Simple as that. They'd still be back in the same place soon enough though, because their vanity businesses are badly run and spending is not under control. City and Liverpool do not really NEED this. The morons above certainly do need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 43 minutes ago, Matt said: The term 'Football Club' was removed from the United's team badge in 1998, sole reason was to appeal to international fans. Absolutely no doubt at all that the European Super League will become an international series competition. One problem being what will the competition look like? Who is going to buy PPV's for PSG vs Schalke who are at the bottom of the ESL and 15 points adrift? The competition can't be in a format we're accustomed to, it has to change to appeal. US market has no comprehension of relegation, I assume now it's something to do with budgeting for the next season - easier to project when you're never going to leave the elite league. So it worth considering how this will play out, how long before the likes of Tottenham or Arsenal or Athletico get cut adrift because they can't maintain their PPV quota? Maybe it could happen one day with a relegated Everton having to join the North West Counties league to get back into English football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Here's what could happen next, 6 other wealthy Premier league clubs will join a European Championship league 8 more will join a European Division One. Meanwhile,Latics remain 17th in the EFL Division Two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Bosnian Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Burnley crying about this now, "Football is bigger than all of us and it's future can't be compromised by self-interest"... they weren't too concerned last year when EFL clubs were dying & Sean Dyche was on TV banging on about "Successful Hedge Fund Managers don't give money to the unsuccessful ones". Now they are piping up since they are the 'unsuccessful' ones and at risk of losing money. Bloody hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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