Has any team ever finished as top goal scorers and most goals conceded in 1 season??!!

[Londonboy]

If not we may yet create some history season.....FFS ....answers on a postcard

[oafc1955]

I’ve got a bet on we’ll be top scorers and it’s going to the last game.....hopefully one or two more against FGR will be enough but I think we will definitely have to score at least one!!

[Chaddyexile84]

48 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

I’ve got a bet on we’ll be top scorers and it’s going to the last game.....hopefully one or two more against FGR will be enough but I think we will definitely have to score at least one!!

When did you take that on?  Can’t imagine it’s worth it now

[oafc1955]

November 

[Wee Bobby]

Have posted on this subject a while ago. Nearest was Man City in 1957. 104 for 100 against. Finished 5th in Div 1. Wolves won the league scoring 103. Leicester conceded 108. City top scorers but 2nd conceders. So Latics can set a record. 2 in front of Exeter and Morecambe 3 in front of Cambridge. Lets hope we score a couple.

[Summerdeep]

I'm reminded a little bit of 1970-71, when the Latics won promotion from Div 4 under Jimmy Frizzell. Their 'goals for' total was 88 , the second highest in the Football League (one behind runaway Div 4 champions Notts County's total of 89). 'Goals against' were 63, worse than about half the sides in the division. Games at Boundary Park were particularly spectacular, with a 5-1 win v Brentford, 5-2 v Aldershot, 4-2 v Lincoln and 5-3 v Crewe. There were also heavyish defeats: 1-3 v Workington, 1-3 v Notts County and 2-4 v Southport. 

 

It's probably a bit ridiculous to compare the Latics side from that season with the Brazil side that won the 1970 World Cup, but they too scored a sackful of goals in almost every game, while usually conceding at least one or two thanks to their leaky defence.

 

[Monty Burns]

4 hours ago, Summerdeep said:

I'm reminded a little bit of 1970-71, when the Latics won promotion from Div 4 under Jimmy Frizzell. Their 'goals for' total was 88 , the second highest in the Football League (one behind runaway Div 4 champions Notts County's total of 89). 'Goals against' were 63, worse than about half the sides in the division. Games at Boundary Park were particularly spectacular, with a 5-1 win v Brentford, 5-2 v Aldershot, 4-2 v Lincoln and 5-3 v Crewe. There were also heavyish defeats: 1-3 v Workington, 1-3 v Notts County and 2-4 v Southport. 

 

It's probably a bit ridiculous to compare the Latics side from that season with the Brazil side that won the 1970 world Cup, but they too scored a sackfull of goals in almost every game, while usually conceding at least one or two thanks to their leaky defence.

 

'Ninguem se incomoda em defender'

[Dickie Down]

It wasn't that they couldn't defend, but only one player, Bill Cranston, was really a defender. According to BTBs interview with Jim Fryatt, the pre season goal was The Ford Sporting League, with promotion a bonus. Even Harry Dowd fancied himself as an outfield player.

 

It was glorious.

[Summerdeep]

^ Bill Cranston, now there's a name! Something about Bill has always fascinated and puzzled me - he was signed from Preston NE in the close season of 1970, for £6000 apparently, after being voted their 'Player of the Year'. Preston were a solid mid-table Second Division side, and at 28 years of age, Cranston could probably have expected to be able to play at that level for another two or three seasons, yet he chose to drop down two divisions to play for a side that had just finished two points above the re-election zone in the old Fourth Division.

 

What did that say about Bill Cranston? Or maybe one should ask what it tells us about the persuasive abilities and personal magnetism of Jimmy Frizzell, who managed to sign such a player after just a handful of months in club management. Sorry for derailing the thread somewhat, but maybe a separate 'Bill Cranston' thread would have been very much a minority interest.....

 

[TheBigDog]

9 hours ago, Summerdeep said:

^ Bill Cranston, now there's a name! Something about Bill has always fascinated and puzzled me - he was signed from Preston NE in the close season of 1970, for £6000 apparently, after being voted their 'Player of the Year'. Preston were a solid mid-table Second Division side, and at 28 years of age, Cranston could probably have expected to be able to play at that level for another two or three seasons, yet he chose to drop down two divisions to play for a side that had just finished two points above the re-election zone in the old Fourth Division.

 

What did that say about Bill Cranston? Or maybe one should ask what it tells us about the persuasive abilities and personal magnetism of Jimmy Frizzell, who managed to sign such a player after just a handful of months in club management. Sorry for derailing the thread somewhat, but maybe a separate 'Bill Cranston' thread would have been very much a minority interest.....

 

 

You should pop this post into the ‘ex players and that’ thread... it might get a couple of us older lads chipping in

[Dave_Og]

9 hours ago, Summerdeep said:

^ Bill Cranston, now there's a name! Something about Bill has always fascinated and puzzled me - he was signed from Preston NE in the close season of 1970, for £6000 apparently, after being voted their 'Player of the Year'. Preston were a solid mid-table Second Division side, and at 28 years of age, Cranston could probably have expected to be able to play at that level for another two or three seasons, yet he chose to drop down two divisions to play for a side that had just finished two points above the re-election zone in the old Fourth Division.

 

What did that say about Bill Cranston? Or maybe one should ask what it tells us about the persuasive abilities and personal magnetism of Jimmy Frizzell, who managed to sign such a player after just a handful of months in club management. Sorry for derailing the thread somewhat, but maybe a separate 'Bill Cranston' thread would have been very much a minority interest.....

 

According to Wiki he only played 16 times for Preston in the season before he joined us and according to this 1969-70 Season Final Football Tables (englishfootballleaguetables.co.uk) Preston finished bottom of the table.

[disjointed]

11 hours ago, Summerdeep said:

^ Bill Cranston, now there's a name! Something about Bill has always fascinated and puzzled me - he was signed from Preston NE in the close season of 1970, for £6000 apparently, after being voted their 'Player of the Year'. Preston were a solid mid-table Second Division side, and at 28 years of age, Cranston could probably have expected to be able to play at that level for another two or three seasons, yet he chose to drop down two divisions to play for a side that had just finished two points above the re-election zone in the old Fourth Division.

 

What did that say about Bill Cranston? Or maybe one should ask what it tells us about the persuasive abilities and personal magnetism of Jimmy Frizzell, who managed to sign such a player after just a handful of months in club management. Sorry for derailing the thread somewhat, but maybe a separate 'Bill Cranston' thread would have been very much a minority interest.....

 

I remember standing in the Chaddy and there was a bloke who only ever shouted anything when Bill did something. He had 3 lines

"skill Bill" 

"kill Bill" 

"dill Bill" 

I assume the last one was when he fucked up. 

[Dickie Down]

2 hours ago, disjointed said:

I remember standing in the Chaddy and there was a bloke who only ever shouted anything when Bill did something. He had 3 lines

"skill Bill" 

"kill Bill" 

"dill Bill" 

I assume the last one was when he fucked up. 

Lancs had a cricket captain named Ken Cranston and a section of the crowd nicknamed him thus.

 

Our hero was short on skill, but particularly combative. The call of 'Sandbag him, Ken!'  was memorable as yet another attacker broke through. He had a good line in aiming covering clearances at the disabled cars, which amused in less enlightened days.

He was made captain, which suggests he kept a few in order. Another particularly good Frizzell signing.

[flashlatic]

Not old enough to remember Bill play but he worked as a handyman at same place as me in Burnley for years. Great fella always good for a laugh. Lives in Padiham with his Mrs now I think.

[Bobledgersheart]

Seem to remember that late in the game he would what could only be described as give his whole body a shake which seemed to revive him for the final minutes.

 

A decent player at that level and Captain of a very entertaining side.

[Summerdeep]

10 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

According to Wiki he only played 16 times for Preston in the season before he joined us and according to this 1969-70 Season Final Football Tables (englishfootballleaguetables.co.uk) Preston finished bottom of the table.

 

Yeah, I forgot about that Preston relegation. Maybe because they bounced straight back up in 70-71 so that I didn't notice they'd gone missing!

 

Another interesting signing was Don Heath, also in the summer of 1970. A regular member of the Swindon side that won promotion from Div 3 in 1969, and beat Arsenal in the League Cup final at Wembley the same year. The legendary Don Rogers played on the other wing. Swindon were still on the up at the start of the 70s, twice winning the Anglo-Italian trophy with wins against Roma, Juventus and Napoli. Once again he was persuaded to drop down two divisions and come to Latics for a modest fee. Quite a quick and skillful right winger, though finishing wasn't his forte (one goal in 45 games). For some reason he didn't manage to hold down a regular first team place in 71-72, and ended up with Hartlepool in the lower reaches of Div 4 by 1973. 

 

[Dickie Down]

5 hours ago, Summerdeep said:

 

Yeah, I forgot about that Preston relegation. Maybe because they bounced straight back up in 70-71 so that I didn't notice they'd gone missing!

 

Another interesting signing was Don Heath, also in the summer of 1970. A regular member of the Swindon side that won promotion from Div 3 in 1969, and beat Arsenal in the League Cup final at Wembley the same year. The legendary Don Rogers played on the other wing. Swindon were still on the up at the start of the 70s, twice winning the Anglo-Italian trophy with wins against Roma, Juventus and Napoli. Once again he was persuaded to drop down two divisions and come to Latics for a modest fee. Quite a quick and skillful right winger, though finishing wasn't his forte (one goal in 45 games). For some reason he didn't manage to hold down a regular first team place in 71-72, and ended up with Hartlepool in the lower reaches of Div 4 by 1973. 

 

I rather think Don Heath was a Bryceland inspired signing. He had played for Norwich with Tommy prior to going to Swindon. His big selling point was to cross the ball accurately onto the head of the great Fryatt and I presume he was recommended to Jimmy Frizzell on that basis. We had Maurice Whittle from left back who could land the ball on a sixpence so it was a good plan.

 

Frizzell repeated much the same with George McVitie and Andy Lochhead.

[Summerdeep]

^ Yes, Frizzell's most successful sides were those which had a 4-2-4 line up, with two genuine wingers. I'm thinking obviously of the 1970-71 promotion team with Heath and Bebbington supplying the crosses from the wings (aided and abetted at times by Wood and Whittle), and the 1974 Div 3 Championship side with McVitie and Groves. It's interesting that it was only after the signing of Groves in February '74 that the Latics were transformed from fringe promotion hopefuls to a side capable of challenging Bristol Rovers for the divisional title.

[Dickie Down]

9 hours ago, Summerdeep said:

^ Yes, Frizzell's most successful sides were those which had a 4-2-4 line up, with two genuine wingers. I'm thinking obviously of the 1970-71 promotion team with Heath and Bebbington supplying the crosses from the wings (aided and abetted at times by Wood and Whittle), and the 1974 Div 3 Championship side with McVitie and Groves. It's interesting that it was only after the signing of Groves in February '74 that the Latics were transformed from fringe promotion hopefuls to a side capable of challenging Bristol Rovers for the divisional title.

Very similar, yes. Even to the extent that the classical winger was on the right and the individualist on the left. Groves was an inspired signing, who balanced the team up and provided extreme flair. I would tend to the view that Whittle was vital for the accuracy of his crossing, whilst Ian Wood was a very powerful runner, who made space for his winger to cross. His end product was sometimes prone to end up in the Chaddy End.

 

I am hoping to do some research and writing on the club primarily from the period of Ken Bates' departure in 1968 to the promotion in 1971.

 

It strikes me as entirely resonant to today's plight and may provide some lessons in how to remove a football club from an unearthly mess.

 

All contributions and insights welcome.

[Dave_Og]

1 hour ago, Dickie Down said:

 

 

I am hoping to do some research and writing on the club primarily from the period of Ken Bates' departure in 1968 to the promotion in 1971.

 

It strikes me as entirely resonant to today's plight and may provide some lessons in how to remove a football club from an unearthly mess.

 

All contributions and insights welcome.

 

Different world  though.  The days of local businesses owning football clubs seem to be over

[Worcester Owl]

2 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

 

Different world  though.  The days of local businesses owning football clubs seem to be over

I suppose there are some parallels between Coco and Bates. I was just a kid when Bates ran Oldham, but I seem to remember he was usually abroad (Virgin Islands in his case) as the club lurched from one crisis to another. He was also good at talking the talk but not much else. However, it's very hard to imagine any club in the lower leagues being bought by a brewery these days or indeed by any other local business, I agree.

[Dave_Og]

25 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said:

I suppose there are some parallels between Coco and Bates. I was just a kid when Bates ran Oldham, but I seem to remember he was usually abroad (Virgin Islands in his case) as the club lurched from one crisis to another. He was also good at talking the talk but not much else. However, it's very hard to imagine any club in the lower leagues being bought by a brewery these days or indeed by any other local business, I agree.

I was around in his era but blissfully unaware of what was going on - I just liked going to the football...

[Summerdeep]

I only became a serious Latics supporter in 1969, so towards the end of the Bates era. Nevertheless, researching his regime through old programmes etc seems to show that his first 12 months were an exciting time at the club. Relegation appeared to be a near certainty when he took over in December 1965, but McIlroy as the new manager was able to inspire a 'great escape'. Attendances also doubled on average to around the 10,000 mark. The first three or four months of 1966-67 were also promising, with the team never far out of the promotion zone and probably peaking with the 1-0 win at QPR in November.

 

The wheels really seemed to come off in January 1967, when we failed to win any games: this included the FA Cup exit to Wolves, when we threw away a 2-0 lead with just a couple of minutes to go, then got hammered in the replay. I've sometimes wondered whether that injury time Wolves equalizer had a similar psychological effect on the club to Mark Hughes's goal at Wembley in 1994. At any rate it was downhill all the way from then on, until the John Lowe and Jimmy Frizzell era, of course...

 

Bates presumably lost interest after his large financial investment in the club failed to bring instant rewards.

 

[disjointed]

6 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

I was around in his era but blissfully unaware of what was going on - I just liked going to the football...

That is the case with most youngsters, I started going in the 69/70 season, I just found high scoring open games something to behold. Also the fact that it was a sort of independence. 

[Dickie Down]

20 hours ago, Worcester Owl said:

I suppose there are some parallels between Coco and Bates. I was just a kid when Bates ran Oldham, but I seem to remember he was usually abroad (Virgin Islands in his case) as the club lurched from one crisis to another. He was also good at talking the talk but not much else. However, it's very hard to imagine any club in the lower leagues being bought by a brewery these days or indeed by any other local business, I agree.

Yes, very different times. John Lowe, who effectively rescued the club after being brought in by Harry Massey, was referred to as a ' cotton baron'. Not many of those around these days and precious few remained then.

 

The club was in equally bad shape when Ken Bates stopped funding the club prior to the 68-9 season and then demanded repayment of his loans. There was a fire sale at the start of the season and we were relegated to the fourth division under Jack Rowley. December 1969 was without doubt the nadir and worse than anything since. An 8-1 defeat away to Peterborough, beaten in the FAC Cup at home by South Shields and losing at home to Workington at Christmas saw us next to bottom with Workington one place above. Bradford PA were below us and were not re elected at the end of the season. We managed two goalless draws with them!

 

Unsurprisingly, Rowley was sacked and we went for the cheap option as a caretaker, a broken down lower league long server called Frizzell, who had been coaching the first team. Didn't turn out bad.

 

It was, though, the first period that the council became involved with the ground, taking along lease out, which, I assume, Lees's bought out in the mid to late seventies.

 

There are also clubs which enjoy relative stability, which is largely the definition of success for a lower league football club in these times, by having long term managers who they back.