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League 2 Activity 2021/22


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18 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

 

 

Newport were denied a penalty and then Morecambe were awarded a dubious one. 

I agree with @BP1960 that if VAR had been used the game may have had a different outcome.

 

I can understand why the system is not in use for regular games in the lower leagues but for games of this importance it surely must be brought in. In the end it is down to the clubs and the EFL to lobby for this to happen in future.

 

Ignoring for a moment the way that Offsides are dealt with, VAR in these situations needs to be changed - it is still there to too often protect the referee rather than reach a correct decision. 

 

And as for the approach to determining offsides... it’s a complete shambles for the highly marginal ones. As with the oft quoted ‘clear and obvious’  tag line this should apply to offsides too - if it takes more than a few seconds to determine then give the forward the benefit.

There are no marginal offsides. It is offside or it isn’t . I agree though that if it takes more than a few seconds it should just accept  the on field decision 

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22 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

Maybe  for offsides the foot psition only should count, after all it is called football.

 

17 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

Well when they ban heading...

I'm with BP on this one. Obviously you can score with most parts of the body, but it would simplify things if foot position alone determined your position on the pitch. Some of the ridiculous offsides, like Bamford's for having his arm up calling for the ball, would go away. 

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10 minutes ago, Magic Mikey said:

 

I'm with BP on this one. Obviously you can score with most parts of the body, but it would simplify things if foot position alone determined your position on the pitch. Some of the ridiculous offsides, like Bamford's for having his arm up calling for the ball, would go away. 

Never understood the Bamford one - I thought the rule was that if a part of your body that you can score with was offside the it's offside, which seems to make sense.  Still, it was Leeds so fair enough...

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14 hours ago, Flemboy said:

Well done Morecambe. Shows you can get promotion on a low budget.

Shame though since they are just down the road from me.Still I have Barrow and Carlisle nearby.

It’s the same for me. I can walk to Morecambe’s ground in 15 minutes. I suppose I’ll have to wait until they are relegated next season. (Provided we can stay up)

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I have thought that too BP1960, but the level of scrutiny even just checking that wouldn’t solve the bigger problem.

I would keep goal line technology and VAR only for checking intentional/deliberate hand ball and fouls in and around the penalty area.....Some of the decisions as a result of VAR are just ridiculous!!

 

The referees have only a split second to make a decision and are under even more pressure now.

The analysis from every angle imaginable by TV pundits for almost every decision made by the referee almost amounts to victimisation.

 

I would ban TV replays of all controversial decisions and just leave it to the referee who won’t get every decision spot on but we’ve managed it that way for over 100 years.

 

The way things are now we may as well dispense with referees and linesmen all together and revert to the latest available technology.

 

The referees have an extremely difficult job and need all the help they can get. One thing I would do is take away their responsibility of timing the game ie. injury time, subs, etc.etc. and use the rugby style hooter which would probably help them concentrate  a little more on the critical decisions!!

 

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2 hours ago, oafc1955 said:

I have thought that too BP1960, but the level of scrutiny even just checking that wouldn’t solve the bigger problem.

I would keep goal line technology and VAR only for checking intentional/deliberate hand ball and fouls in and around the penalty area.....Some of the decisions as a result of VAR are just ridiculous!!

 

The referees have only a split second to make a decision and are under even more pressure now.

The analysis from every angle imaginable by TV pundits for almost every decision made by the referee almost amounts to victimisation.

 

I would ban TV replays of all controversial decisions and just leave it to the referee who won’t get every decision spot on but we’ve managed it that way for over 100 years.

 

The way things are now we may as well dispense with referees and linesmen all together and revert to the latest available technology.

 

The referees have an extremely difficult job and need all the help they can get. One thing I would do is take away their responsibility of timing the game ie. injury time, subs, etc.etc. and use the rugby style hooter which would probably help them concentrate  a little more on the critical decisions!!

 

 

The champions league ref was excellent, always up with play and  quick decisive decisions.

I somehow doubt if we will see him covering Latics matches though.🤔

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4 hours ago, Wednesday said:

There are no marginal offsides. It is offside or it isn’t . I agree though that if it takes more than a few seconds it should just accept  the on field decision 


Except of course that the tech isn’t accurate enough to judge offside.
 

The margin of error is I believe (approximately) between 6 and 10 inches either way, dependent on movement. That is why the Dutch solution, which is still only a partial solution, should be universally adopted immediately. 

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1 hour ago, kowenicki said:


Except of course that the tech isn’t accurate enough to judge offside.
 

The margin of error is I believe (approximately) between 6 and 10 inches either way, dependent on movement. That is why the Dutch solution, which is still only a partial solution, should be universally adopted immediately. 

Leave it to the referees and  linesman then ? ...like they do in 99% of football matches. 

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2 hours ago, kowenicki said:


Except of course that the tech isn’t accurate enough to judge offside.
 

The margin of error is I believe (approximately) between 6 and 10 inches either way, dependent on movement. That is why the Dutch solution, which is still only a partial solution, should be universally adopted immediately. 

Is that Male or Female inches? They do tend to differ1

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3 hours ago, Wednesday said:

Leave it to the referees and  linesman then ? ...like they do in 99% of football matches. 


Tech can help, if it is used sensibly. VAR isn’t really the problem, it’s the implementation of it and the lack of awareness of its limitations. 

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13 hours ago, kowenicki said:


Tech can help, if it is used sensibly. VAR isn’t really the problem, it’s the implementation of it and the lack of awareness of its limitations. 

I may be wrong but wasn't VAR supposed to be used for clear and obvious mistakes? If for example we are talking about drawing red and blue lines across players to look for off side by millimetres, then that is neither clear nor obvious and should be left to the officials on the pitch. Go back to the old rule, if you are in an off side position then its off side, whether or not you are interfering with play you are still off side. Blow the whistle at the time of the offence instead of waiting until the passage of play has moved on, sorted. For any other clear and obvious error by the officials, elbows, handbags etc. use VAR.

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17 minutes ago, C.O.JONES said:

I may be wrong but wasn't VAR supposed to be used for clear and obvious mistakes? If for example we are talking about drawing red and blue lines across players to look for off side by millimetres, then that is neither clear nor obvious and should be left to the officials on the pitch. Go back to the old rule, if you are in an off side position then its off side, whether or not you are interfering with play you are still off side. Blow the whistle at the time of the offence instead of waiting until the passage of play has moved on, sorted. For any other clear and obvious error by the officials, elbows, handbags etc. use VAR.

No, don't think that's right VAR re offsides is just yes or no. The clear and obvious is for other subjects. 

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14 hours ago, C.O.JONES said:

I may be wrong but wasn't VAR supposed to be used for clear and obvious mistakes? If for example we are talking about drawing red and blue lines across players to look for off side by millimetres, then that is neither clear nor obvious and should be left to the officials on the pitch. Go back to the old rule, if you are in an off side position then its off side, whether or not you are interfering with play you are still off side. Blow the whistle at the time of the offence instead of waiting until the passage of play has moved on, sorted. For any other clear and obvious error by the officials, elbows, handbags etc. use VAR.

 

Before the rule change I once saw a Latics player score from 30 yards, but it was disallowed because a team mate was stood near the corner flag, nowadays he'd be judged not interfering with play and the goal would stand.

Which is the best rule?

 

 

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8 hours ago, BP1960 said:

 

Before the rule change I once saw a Latics player score from 30 yards, but it was disallowed because a team mate was stood near the corner flag, nowadays he'd be judged not interfering with play and the goal would stand.

Which is the best rule?

 

 


The interfering with play or not I agree with 

 

phases of play and having a little finger in front of a defender being offside I do not 

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42 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said:


The interfering with play or not I agree with 

 

phases of play and having a little finger in front of a defender being offside I do not 

But you're either offside or not. If they give leeway then how much? If they say a foot then there'll still be a debate about whether it's 11 inches or 13.

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20 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

But you're either offside or not. If they give leeway then how much? If they say a foot then there'll still be a debate about whether it's 11 inches or 13.

You work out the error range of putting in the lines on the striker and defender. Kow reported he had read that it was 6 to 9 inches. Not sure where that comes from. I’m sure he can tell us.

 

So on that basis, if the striker line is 6 (or9) inches ahead of the defender line, he is offside. Less then that he should be considered level. 
 

That would mean the striker being given the benefit of doubt, ie the error range.

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9 hours ago, BP1960 said:

 

Before the rule change I once saw a Latics player score from 30 yards, but it was disallowed because a team mate was stood near the corner flag, nowadays he'd be judged not interfering with play and the goal would stand.

Which is the best rule?

 

 

Wasn't  Brian Robson stood in an offside position when Mark (bastard) Hughes scored against us?

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There is human judgement as to when the ball is played. Play it old school and if the officials made a clear and obvious error, change it. The linesmen (or women) would still have to delay flagging to avoid taking advantage away from the attacking side. 

It pisses me off when wrong decisions aren't changed because the error wasn't clear and obvious but a good goal is disallowed by millimetres when, if the pause button was pressed a fraction earlier, it might have been deemed onside. 

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1 hour ago, Dave_Og said:

But you're either offside or not. If they give leeway then how much? If they say a foot then there'll still be a debate about whether it's 11 inches or 13.


Personally I think it should be the whole body - ie daylight between defender and attacker - a finger doesn’t give you an advantage at all especially as you can’t use the finger to score 

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6 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said:


Personally I think it should be the whole body - ie daylight between defender and attacker - a finger doesn’t give you an advantage at all especially as you can’t use the finger to score 

You can't be offside by a finger. It's the t-shirt sleeve part of the arm that can be. Still ridonculous. 

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2 hours ago, Chaddyexile84 said:


Personally I think it should be the whole body - ie daylight between defender and attacker - a finger doesn’t give you an advantage at all especially as you can’t use the finger to score 

And that's it in a nutshell. You should only be given offside if you are standing ahead of the defender when the ball is kicked. VAR is ruining the game IMO and I think we've gone from "clear and obvious" to "clear as mud".

 

Similarly, the handball rule has gone crazy. It used to be easy; if the arm or hand was deliberately moved to control the ball, it's hands. Now the ball hits the arm or hand and, if it's not by your side, it's hands. It's led to appeals for everything, putting referees and their assistants under more pressure, having to decide whether a) the handball was deliberate, b) how close to the body was the arm or hand, c) was it in an unnatural position.

 

It's nuts and I honestly believe that VAR should only be used for goal line technology and not all the bollocks it's being used for now.

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