BPAS PODCAST: 21st Jun '21 Episode 40: Blackpool Rock

[Dave_Og]

11 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

Dave does much of my bidding here, but I’d also add, the division we’re in isn’t the primary reason people want Abdallah & Mo out!

How much are you bidding...? 

[underdog]

35 minutes ago, League one forever said:

I know it’s free, and anyone can join. The question is why only 200 have done so?? 
 

They currently have circa 200 members who have voted to give the owner another ‘last’ chance, and want to find a way to enable the trust to own the ground- with 200 members. . . 
 

Meanwhile 3000 people have signed a petition saying enough is enough. 
 

Which group has the pulse of the fans? Why can PTB draw relatively big numbers to surveys, questionnaires, and petitions and the foundation struggles? 
 

What is the best way to get the owners out? 
 

To me it’s collective willpower. Not a fractured fan base with different goals and aims. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Playing devils advocate, why or how do you decide which supporters voice has more value or weight? Going off some rough figures now

 

3k people want owner out

2k fans have bought Season tickets

200 members voted to attempt Club/Owner dialogue

 

Surely all fans have a voice and a choice of how they want to express it equally. How can you genuinely decide which one should supersede the other? and why should you? do we not all have value?

 

genuinely interested 

 

OASF strategy is there. 21 steps and we have achieved 6. That is the aim, "being ready" for fan ownership of Club, Stadium or both. Three plans needed.

 

The fans have to want it and we want them on this journey with us. We offer different methods of support, membership, volunteering, fundraising streams (some launched, some to be launched).

 

Hope this helps and I need to log back off now, back to work

 

[PeteG]

32 minutes ago, lookersstandandy said:

 

Dave does much of my bidding here, but I’d also add, the division we’re in isn’t the primary reason people want Abdallah & Mo out!

I'd argue it is. I accept that the way the club has been run has resulted in us being in this division but had they run the club exactly the same way and somehow we had ended up pushing for promotion at the right end of league 1 i'd bet my last pound everyone would have ignored everything else and been packing out BP as we surged towards the Championship. 

[singe]

49 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Why does the contingency fund have to have enough money in it to run a club with horrendous losses?  The aim should be to run the club within its means.

 

The reason AL has to pump in lots of money is because the club makes nowhere near as much money as it should do.  If he invested his money wisely into turning the club into a viable business rather than wasting it all on staff pay offs and the like then we'd be in a much better position.

 

The aim shouldn't be to raise millions to be wasted, it should be about putting together what is necessary (backing and personnel) to run the club properly for a change.

It won't. It can't sustain losses or keep Abdallah in control. It's for Majority shareholding, stadium or both. And possible scenarios not able to be predicted at this stage.

I tihnk everyone is on the same page about running it properly.

 

It was clarified here:
http://www.trustoldham.org/2021/05/28/for-clarity-oldham-times-article-dated-28-05-21/

[nzlatic]

2 minutes ago, singe said:

It won't. It can't sustain losses or keep Abdallah in control. It's for Majority shareholding, stadium or both. And possible scenarios not able to be predicted at this stage.

I tihnk everyone is on the same page about running it properly.

 

It was clarified here:
http://www.trustoldham.org/2021/05/28/for-clarity-oldham-times-article-dated-28-05-21/

Thanks Singe. Apologies if my post came across as needing clarification on this - it was more aimed at comments about the contingency fund being futile because of how much is needed to just keep the club going.  I think it's definitely something as fans we should be pushing 

[singe]

5 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Thanks Singe. Apologies if my post came across as needing clarification on this - it was more aimed at comments about the contingency fund being futile because of how much is needed to just keep the club going.  I think it's definitely something as fans we should be pushing 

Not at all.

[singe]

14 hours ago, League one forever said:

Further, I don’t think the trust will ever be in a position to take over the club, whilst being a closed shop to non members. IE it would need funds from non members, they in turn would want a say in where their money goes that may not align with the membership manifesto. 

 

 

I think you are right in saying that, but it's not a closed shop in that anyone can play the Lottery, anyone will be able to Pledge or Leave a Legacy as they come on stream.

The members have agreed the strategy, democratically. More members may change it.

But the Contingency Fund will be at arms length from OASF. That's been stated, and it states it in this link as your point is very valid, that fans will be given a say because I don't think every scenario can be predicted.
http://www.trustoldham.org/2021/05/28/for-clarity-oldham-times-article-dated-28-05-21/

[lookersstandandy]

2 hours ago, PeteG said:

I'd argue it is. I accept that the way the club has been run has resulted in us being in this division but had they run the club exactly the same way and somehow we had ended up pushing for promotion at the right end of league 1 i'd bet my last pound everyone would have ignored everything else and been packing out BP as we surged towards the Championship. 

 

....if you accept "the way the club has been run, has resulted in us being in this division".... then you accept "surging towards the Championship" would've meant not running the club the way it has been...!!!!

[BJBlue]

3 hours ago, League one forever said:

I know it’s free, and anyone can join. The question is why only 200 have done so?? 
 

They currently have circa 200 members who have voted to give the owner another ‘last’ chance, and want to find a way to enable the trust to own the ground- with 200 members. . . 
 

Meanwhile 3000 people have signed a petition saying enough is enough. 
 

Which group has the pulse of the fans? Why can PTB draw relatively big numbers to surveys, questionnaires, and petitions and the foundation struggles? 
 

What is the best way to get the owners out? 
 

To me it’s collective willpower. Not a fractured fan base with different goals and aims. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I completely agree with you, and I said something similar earlier in this thread. We all have to pull together. I've been behind PTB since they launched, I only became a member of OASF a few weeks ago. I would echo your questions, why have more not done this? Why have all of those 3k people supporting PTB not looked at the work that OASF has put into their plan and their rebranding and thought, 'well that's the most positive thing they've done in years, I'm going to get in on that so I can use my vote to make sure they do it the way I think it should be done'? Thats not particularly aimed at you but more a question in general. I think it would be good for PTB to poll their members on why they haven't signed up to support OASF and what it would take for that to happen. At the end of the day PTB is the much larger organisation but OASF is the one with a stake in the club and a seat on the board. It baffles my brain that members of PTB wouldn't want control of OASF in this way. They would be able to vote in/out OASF directors and effectively steer the ship. 

[unsworth blue]

13 minutes ago, BJBlue said:

 

I completely agree with you, and I said something similar earlier in this thread. We all have to pull together. I've been behind PTB since they launched, I only became a member of OASF a few weeks ago. I would echo your questions, why have more not done this? Why have all of those 3k people supporting PTB not looked at the work that OASF has put into their plan and their rebranding and thought, 'well that's the most positive thing they've done in years, I'm going to get in on that so I can use my vote to make sure they do it the way I think it should be done'? Thats not particularly aimed at you but more a question in general. I think it would be good for PTB to poll their members on why they haven't signed up to support OASF and what it would take for that to happen. At the end of the day PTB is the much larger organisation but OASF is the one with a stake in the club and a seat on the board. It baffles my brain that members of PTB wouldn't want control of OASF in this way. They would be able to vote in/out OASF directors and effectively steer the ship. 

 

I am willing to support the Contingency Fund as long as there is 0% of it being utilised to support the current regime in any shape or form. I am not a member of the OASF as I will not support an organisation that chooses to support the current regime. 

 

I think the trouble with the shareholding is that it binds the OASF to an organisation that treats us all with utter contempt but the % of shareholding is totally insufficient to enable the OASF to influence any positive change from within the club. I suspect that this is why PTB do not want to actively be involved in OASF - may be wrong.     

[underdog]

5 hours ago, PeteG said:

Sounds very commendable however, how long will it take to be in position to buy the ground/club and then have enough funds to actually run the club? Without some major backers it's a pipedream imo. Nearly all the clubs that are fan owned have some very wealthy backers. Maybe you can attract them but if you can't it's not going to happen. With the money raised by the fans we would never have enough to operate at a higher level than perhaps National League North. In fact, when people quote Newport and Exeter as well run fan owned clubs I have to check how many divisions higher are they up in the pyramid than us. Football is an expensive hobby for the wealthy, you just have to hope you drop on one that's got decent morals and is doing for the good of the club and the community. We've not done that yet but I still think there are people out there that might take a punt on us with good intentions and that's why the pressure needs to be on so the current owner might just cut his losses and sell. Failing that, when we drop out of the league you might get your fan owned club but as i said, it will be a level much lower than we are currently at.

OASF director Philippa can use many examples were fan owned clubs seem to have a glass ceiling of league one.

 

We have a proposal for a business partnership with OMBC that should push through that barrier and keep us sustained for several years. We have to exhaust that possibility.

 

FSA did traffic light all the EFL clubs in November last year. We were red. Previous year we were one of two clubs in the red, now we are one of twelve.

 

Worst case scenario, if 12 EFL clubs went bust what would make us an attractive buy? We are a club without assets. That was a massive " wake up smell the coffee, roses are well past their bloom and take off those damn rose tinted glasses..."........

 

In other words we need to "be ready" and we worked out the strategy under the banner of LATICS. Launched in April

 

Longevity

Academy

Town

Investment

Club

Supporters

 

21 steps to complete, 6 are done.

 

Yes its a massive ask, yes we are in a deprived area of the country squeezed by other local clubs on our doorsteps and we are mindful of that, but we have to try.  Don;t forget we will need three plans too. 

 

Plan A = Asset of community value. Being the Club's landlord. Pre ACV-trigger plan as we can bid ourselves (not guaranteed to be accepted)

Plan C = The Club. Owners come and go. EFL reform is on the horizon. We believe the golden share model of fan representation is the better model and Philippa has got that on the fan led review agenda too.

Plan B = Both

 

We have invested in an all signing all dancing website, similar to Foundation of hearts who have inspired us with their journey, and we want to have every latics fan on the journey with us and you don;t have to dig deep to do it either.

 

Anything fundraising for the contingency fund has "1895" to identify the pot your money is going into. The 1895 lottery is the first step.

 

Without that ideal owner on the horizon there is only us in the picture and we have to be ready the best we can or be damned trying.

 

 

[League one forever]

22 minutes ago, BJBlue said:

 

I completely agree with you, and I said something similar earlier in this thread. We all have to pull together. I've been behind PTB since they launched, I only became a member of OASF a few weeks ago. I would echo your questions, why have more not done this? Why have all of those 3k people supporting PTB not looked at the work that OASF has put into their plan and their rebranding and thought, 'well that's the most positive thing they've done in years, I'm going to get in on that so I can use my vote to make sure they do it the way I think it should be done'? Thats not particularly aimed at you but more a question in general. I think it would be good for PTB to poll their members on why they haven't signed up to support OASF and what it would take for that to happen. At the end of the day PTB is the much larger organisation but OASF is the one with a stake in the club and a seat on the board. It baffles my brain that members of PTB wouldn't want control of OASF in this way. They would be able to vote in/out OASF directors and effectively steer the ship. 

Great post mate. 
 

And exactly the kind of thinking and suggestions I’m on about. 
 

One has popularity, and the ability to get a vast majority of the fan base galvanised. 
 

The other has some great knowledge and some skin in the game. 
 

Why aren’t they dovetailing?? Or even better - joining forces. 
 

In answer to your question, the reason I haven’t and won’t join the the trust is because it isn’t vocal or strong enough in any of actions. You mention the rebrand- great- what shall we do? Give the owner another chance. But he keeps shitting on you. I know- but let’s try again. Not for me. It also doesn’t the help the foundation that struggles from legacy issues IMO. In addition for a lot of fans the time for talk/mediation and hope is over. Lastly The only person I know (from on here) who works there is Tracey, who seems superb in both her time and effort, but other than that they are mystery which doesn’t help their cause. 
 

 

[underdog]

5 minutes ago, unsworth blue said:

 

I am willing to support the Contingency Fund as long as there is 0% of it being utilised to support the current regime in any shape or form. I am not a member of the OASF as I will not support an organisation that chooses to support the current regime. 

 

I think the trouble with the shareholding is that it binds the OASF to an organisation that treats us all with utter contempt but the % of shareholding is totally insufficient to enable the OASF to influence any positive change from within the club. I suspect that this is why PTB do not want to actively be involved in OASF - may be wrong.     

The 1895 contingency fund will be ringfenced. It will be managed managed by the 1895 guardians. (TBA)

 

OASF mission is to ensure a professional football club continues to exist in the borough of Oldham.

 

The 3% gives access to clubs account information and access to the shareholders register (remember Corney was added within 24 hrs of us asking to see it..hmmmm)

 

The extra is the right to appoint a supporter rep to the board. That means gathering eyes on intelligence by the Rep on how our club is being run (fit and proper manner and fulfilling its legal obligations too). 

 

Having said that, since the door has swung back open for us in April time. The club have signed off on the MOU (FSA good guidance document), so although not legally bound they have agreed to board to board meetings through the season and we will be driving the key topics from the manifesto for club change too.

 

It literally is the last throw of the dice for this Club/OASF relationship as we have too much to do literally. 

[underdog]

3 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Lastly The only person I know (from on here) who works there is Tracey, who seems superb in both her time and effort, but other than that they are mystery which doesn’t help their cause.

 

Blast it.....I wanted to be a lady of mystery.......that's torn it. tut haha

[League one forever]

3 hours ago, underdog said:

Playing devils advocate, why or how do you decide which supporters voice has more value or weight? Going off some rough figures now

 

3k people want owner out

2k fans have bought Season tickets

200 members voted to attempt Club/Owner dialogue

 

Surely all fans have a voice and a choice of how they want to express it equally. How can you genuinely decide which one should supersede the other? and why should you? do we not all have value?

 

genuinely interested 

 

OASF strategy is there. 21 steps and we have achieved 6. That is the aim, "being ready" for fan ownership of Club, Stadium or both. Three plans needed.

 

The fans have to want it and we want them on this journey with us. We offer different methods of support, membership, volunteering, fundraising streams (some launched, some to be launched).

 

Hope this helps and I need to log back off now, back to work

 

It’s entirely fair to say we all have an equal voice. And I don’t think it should be a case of one group super seeding another. It’s more about how you can develop a symbiotic relationship based on shared values. 
 

At the minute, there a lot of reasons for why both can’t work together, but for me it’s simply about ideology. With any discussion you need to start with the common ground and not the differences. Then build from there. 
 

Let me you ask this, do you think foundation should be guided by the wider fan base or it’s membership?  
 

 

[BJBlue]

33 minutes ago, unsworth blue said:

 

I am willing to support the Contingency Fund as long as there is 0% of it being utilised to support the current regime in any shape or form. I am not a member of the OASF as I will not support an organisation that chooses to support the current regime.   

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Great post mate. 
 

And exactly the kind of thinking and suggestions I’m on about. 
 

One has popularity, and the ability to get a vast majority of the fan base galvanised. 
 

The other has some great knowledge and some skin in the game. 
 

Why aren’t they dovetailing?? Or even better - joining forces. 
 

In answer to your question, the reason I haven’t and won’t join the the trust is because it isn’t vocal or strong enough in any of actions. You mention the rebrand- great- what shall we do? Give the owner another chance. But he keeps shitting on you. I know- but let’s try again. Not for me. It also doesn’t the help the foundation that struggles from legacy issues IMO. In addition for a lot of fans the time for talk/mediation and hope is over. Lastly The only person I know (from on here) who works there is Tracey, who seems superb in both her time and effort, but other than that they are mystery which doesn’t help their cause. 
 

 

 

I'm sure a lot of those 3k people feel the same way. For you guys personally, what action would OASF have to take? A public statement condemning the owner's leadership? Joint plans with PTB to protest at games? What do you think they should be doing?

 

They undoubtedly have legacy issues but at this point the only way they can overcome those is to be better moving forward, which I feel they've started to do. 

 

Tracey is the most visible to us on here. I have been on the website and looked at who is on the board but I can't really remember. I think one of the roles they are looking for is a spokesperson. Obviously they need some kind of figure head that isn't Tracey getting bombarded on here from all angles while trying to 8 other things as well as her actual job. 

[League one forever]

11 minutes ago, BJBlue said:

 

 

 

 

I'm sure a lot of those 3k people feel the same way. For you guys personally, what action would OASF have to take? A public statement condemning the owner's leadership? Joint plans with PTB to protest at games? What do you think they should be doing?

 

They undoubtedly have legacy issues but at this point the only way they can overcome those is to be better moving forward, which I feel they've started to do. 

 

Tracey is the most visible to us on here. I have been on the website and looked at who is on the board but I can't really remember. I think one of the roles they are looking for is a spokesperson. Obviously they need some kind of figure head that isn't Tracey getting bombarded on here from all angles while trying to 8 other things as well as her actual job. 

The biggest factor for me is how misaligned they seem to the majority of the fan base. 
 

There is no doubt they’re trying to do good work, but that doesn’t cut through when you still want a relationship with the owner. Or when you won’t publicly back what the PTB are doing- and I don’t mean with pitchforks or even backing protests at games. But at the very least a simple short statement that says,

 

We’ve noted the recent letter sent by PTB and we share a lot of their frustration, particularly in trying to engage with the owner and the continued decline of the club.  The current status quo is not acceptable to us, and we will continue to try and safeguard our future. 

 

No protesting, but show or demonstrate that you ‘get it’. Build pressure in their own that compliments what other are doing. However they seem very passive, and want to squirrel away doing work in background that while important isn’t at the forefront of most people’s minds. 
 

 

 

 

[unsworth blue]

56 minutes ago, BJBlue said:

 

 

 

 

I'm sure a lot of those 3k people feel the same way. For you guys personally, what action would OASF have to take? A public statement condemning the owner's leadership? Joint plans with PTB to protest at games? What do you think they should be doing?

 

They undoubtedly have legacy issues but at this point the only way they can overcome those is to be better moving forward, which I feel they've started to do. 

 

Tracey is the most visible to us on here. I have been on the website and looked at who is on the board but I can't really remember. I think one of the roles they are looking for is a spokesperson. Obviously they need some kind of figure head that isn't Tracey getting bombarded on here from all angles while trying to 8 other things as well as her actual job. 

 

First of, agree 100% about Tracey being visible and I thank her fully for all that she is doing. 

 

For me though, the OASF has been too passive for too long and this regime has basically ridden roughshod over the Trust and any other club stakeholders.

 

I have seen at first hand how appeasement by another club's Trust (Bury FC) failed miserably with the result that the club is now left in complete limbo and outside the EFL in an undead state  - this Trust also had a shareholding with their Board and the right to nominate a supporters rep on the Board. 

 

As I understand it, the Foundation has been asked for a comment (quite reasonably in my opinion) about the nigh on 3000 fans who have signed a petition asking the owners to sell, this is obviously a significant minority or majority of the supporters base of our club that the Foundation should represent. Nothing has been forthcoming. I am certain many of the Foundation's members actually agree with the petition and many may have signed it but to simply not acknowledge it at all is quite damning of both the Club and Foundation. 

 

I am certain that both supporters groups have got many shared views and they may come together in time but at present, their standpoints seem quite polarised.             

[League one forever]

6 minutes ago, unsworth blue said:

 

First of, agree 100% about Tracey being visible and I thank her fully for all that she is doing. 

 

For me though, the OASF has been too passive for too long and this regime has basically ridden roughshod over the Trust and any other club stakeholders.

 

I have seen at first hand how appeasement by another club's Trust (Bury FC) failed miserably with the result that the club is now left in complete limbo and outside the EFL in an undead state  - this Trust also had a shareholding with their Board and the right to nominate a supporters rep on the Board. 

 

As I understand it, the Foundation has been asked for a comment (quite reasonably in my opinion) about the nigh on 3000 fans who have signed a petition asking the owners to sell, this is obviously a significant minority or majority of the supporters base of our club that the Foundation should represent. Nothing has been forthcoming. I am certain many of the Foundation's members actually agree with the petition and many may have signed it but to simply not acknowledge it at all is quite damning of both the Club and Foundation. 

 

I am certain that both supporters groups have got many shared views and they may come together in time but at present, their standpoints seem quite polarised.             

Excellently put. 

[unsworth blue]

51 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Excellently put. 

 

Cheers LOF

[PeteG]

1 hour ago, unsworth blue said:

 

First of, agree 100% about Tracey being visible and I thank her fully for all that she is doing. 

 

For me though, the OASF has been too passive for too long and this regime has basically ridden roughshod over the Trust and any other club stakeholders.

 

I have seen at first hand how appeasement by another club's Trust (Bury FC) failed miserably with the result that the club is now left in complete limbo and outside the EFL in an undead state  - this Trust also had a shareholding with their Board and the right to nominate a supporters rep on the Board. 

 

As I understand it, the Foundation has been asked for a comment (quite reasonably in my opinion) about the nigh on 3000 fans who have signed a petition asking the owners to sell, this is obviously a significant minority or majority of the supporters base of our club that the Foundation should represent. Nothing has been forthcoming. I am certain many of the Foundation's members actually agree with the petition and many may have signed it but to simply not acknowledge it at all is quite damning of both the Club and Foundation. 

 

I am certain that both supporters groups have got many shared views and they may come together in time but at present, their standpoints seem quite polarised.             

Spot on this. We all accept the Trust have limitations because of the shareholding and are somewhat held back by red tape in many respects however tomorrow is 2 weeks since the clubs board of directors put out a statement with more than one untruth and also failed to acknowledge the petition. The rep was part of the meeting, several have asked whether he signed off on the update, brought up the petition himself in the meeting or was just ignored by the rest of the board. Its important for the fan base to know exactly what happened and I think 2 weeks is a ridiculous amount of time to provide a short update 

[basilrobbie]

Good evening everyone. I'm a new Member, my name is Robbie and I'm the Secretary of the Blackpool Supporters Trust (one of Christine's trusty sidekicks).

 

I registered to take part in this thread, which has interested and concerned me in equal measure. The concern comes from the sense that some of you may under-estimate the potential power that you have.

 

We were quite lucky that a court case came along and generated a lot of the evidence that we needed to make our case. But we still had to use that evidence, and I can say categorically that the fact that we were around, and fighting very hard and very visibly for our cause WAS a huge factor in what the judge in our case eventually decided to do. We had power by virtue of who we were and what we were doing. 

 

I also think that you are never going to get a time where football governance is more in the news than it is now. In the last two months we have met with supporters of FOUR other clubs besides yourselves, which indicates to me that the underlying problem is both grave and worryingly widespread. I hope that you can make maximum use of being one of a significant group of supporters around the country with a grievance a a time when national media is at its most interested. 

 

You are faced with a war of attrition, and there is no point in pretending otherwise. But the more of you who are galvanised and active, the more momentum you will have. We wish you luck and will continue to support you wherever we can.

[lookersstandandy]

Fabulous post. Thank you for taking the time to write it @basilrobbie.

[Dave_Og]

2 hours ago, basilrobbie said:

Good evening everyone. I'm a new Member, my name is Robbie and I'm the Secretary of the Blackpool Supporters Trust (one of Christine's trusty sidekicks).

 

I registered to take part in this thread, which has interested and concerned me in equal measure. The concern comes from the sense that some of you may under-estimate the potential power that you have.

 

We were quite lucky that a court case came along and generated a lot of the evidence that we needed to make our case. But we still had to use that evidence, and I can say categorically that the fact that we were around, and fighting very hard and very visibly for our cause WAS a huge factor in what the judge in our case eventually decided to do. We had power by virtue of who we were and what we were doing. 

 

I also think that you are never going to get a time where football governance is more in the news than it is now. In the last two months we have met with supporters of FOUR other clubs besides yourselves, which indicates to me that the underlying problem is both grave and worryingly widespread. I hope that you can make maximum use of being one of a significant group of supporters around the country with a grievance a a time when national media is at its most interested. 

 

You are faced with a war of attrition, and there is no point in pretending otherwise. But the more of you who are galvanised and active, the more momentum you will have. We wish you luck and will continue to support you wherever we can.

I remember BASIL as Blackpool Supporters in London, a decent acronym until OASIS came along!  Connected? 

[basilrobbie]

Yes, I'm a member of BASIL Dave. We've basically got most of middle England surrounded.