Dave_Og Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Just now, Andy b said: Again, the trust need to have a plan b in place to get football restarted if it comes to that. that’s asking a lot of the trust but it’s the vehicle for us having a future and it needs to be supported to builds its finances, develop its contingency plan and, worst case, have a plan in place which it can implement to launch W Phoenix Half a dozen people..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximus1267 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 21 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: While I really don't hope liquidation happens. The worst case scenario is we start at the bottom again become fan run for a number of years. If we get as little as 1500 turning up to watch the pheonix club we will be able to attract loads of decent semi-pro lads have some proper good days out at some of those non-league grounds climb the leagues and eventually get to a place where we can bring in investors and get back into the football league. It will be a long road but the journey will be epic. I dont believe a phoenix club would work. The club we have needs saved and it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: Half a dozen people..... thousands of people with a vested interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Just now, Andy b said: thousands of people with a vested interest Precious few of them have shown willing to get involved thus far. I think it's a pipedream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 11 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: Precious few of them have shown willing to get involved thus far. I think it's a pipedream. It’s got to aim for that otherwise it has literally no purpose in our current context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 37 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: I've asked this question many times over the years and nobody has ever answered it. Who is it that's starting this phoenix club? Well the thing is Dave we've never truly been faced with that reality and if the reality is start up a pheonix club or no Oldham Athletic we might be surprised at people's willingness to get involved. I'm not saying it will just happen but if they build it their is a good chance they will come. 26 minutes ago, maximus1267 said: I dont believe a phoenix club would work. The club we have needs saved and it will be. I believe the club needs to and will be saved too Maxi and like you that's what I hope for but I'm putting down an alternative suggestion that could happen should the worst case scenario happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 26 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: Well the thing is Dave we've never truly been faced with that reality and if the reality is start up a pheonix club or no Oldham Athletic we might be surprised at people's willingness to get involved. Wait, what about the dark times in 2003/4 when Moore walked and we were getting beer delivered to the volunteers at the club trying to keep it going? When Jarvis was holding it together? (My memory is a little hazy on exact times.) I may just be cynical but the appeal of a phoenix club would wear off sharpish with the reality of bills and repairs and company law and endless administration. I think we’d get a decent amount of initial interest that tailed off fast - along with funds - once we hit season two or three in the NWCL or wherever we’d end up in the pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OASF1895 Lottery Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Andy b said: Which all points to the urgent need for the trust to build up its reserves. That may not run the club for long but it will allow it to step in and put something in alongside a n other. Thank you for the lead in Andy. First step, on a long road, is for more people to join the Lottery. Join the Lottery here It will be ring fenced and neutrally overseen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, Crusoe said: Wait, what about the dark times in 2003/4 when Moore walked and we were getting beer delivered to the volunteers at the club trying to keep it going? When Jarvis was holding it together? (My memory is a little hazy on exact times.) I may just be cynical but the appeal of a phoenix club would wear off sharpish with the reality of bills and repairs and company law and endless administration. I think we’d get a decent amount of initial interest that tailed off fast - along with funds - once we hit season two or three in the NWCL or wherever we’d end up in the pyramid. You've kind of answered the question their was volunteers who came forward when it was most needed. Secondly the club was still alive at that point and efforts were being made to save it. If the club folded then or now the discourse would change we would be asked a different question no Oldham Athletic or an Oldham Athletic which we would have to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 I mean, I get the appeal of a phoenix club. When things are this bleak and we've had years of mediocre-or-worse owners and league positions to match, the idea of ripping it up and starting again with only those with best intentions involved is great. But I don't think it's feasible. There are precious few examples of fan-owned and run clubs - the exceptions that prove the rule - and even fewer where that model lasts past a few seasons. Ultimately we'd need individuals or companies with money to invest to keep the lights on. I think we'd get a few thousand interested individuals chipping in money - some a lot, most a little - but that wouldn't sustain a club over time. I can't find reliable figures, but I read one suggestion that back in 2011/12 the running costs for one step 3 (NPL-level) club were around 100k per year plus around 200k for staff and player wages. Another article I read suggested 1k plus per month at step 9/10. Plus, and this is not a massively rational argument I know, but while a phoenix club would be 'ours' for at least a while, it wouldn't be Oldham Athletic AFC. It woudn't have been a league runner-up, a cup finalist, a Second Division title winner, a founding member of the Premier League (pah). It wouldn't be the club of Royle, Frizzell, etc. I don't want to give up the history without more of a fight. For that reason I think the Trust, and any other supporters' groups, have to focus on pressuring the owners of the club we have, not getting distracted with ideas of a new club. Financial reserves should exist to enable those groups to step in if and when they can to save this club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 minute ago, GlossopLatic said: You've kind of answered the question their was volunteers who came forward when it was most needed. Secondly the club was still alive at that point and efforts were being made to save it. If the club folded then or now the discourse would change we would be asked a different question no Oldham Athletic or an Oldham Athletic which we would have to start. No. Those volunteers were a small group chipping in beer money as a thank you to people doing unpaid work keeping the lights on. Nobody was stepping in to enable the club to run itself, we were looking for a saviour. Sadly not providing running a football club money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Crusoe said: I mean, I get the appeal of a phoenix club. When things are this bleak and we've had years of mediocre-or-worse owners and league positions to match, the idea of ripping it up and starting again with only those with best intentions involved is great. But I don't think it's feasible. There are precious few examples of fan-owned and run clubs - the exceptions that prove the rule - and even fewer where that model lasts past a few seasons. Ultimately we'd need individuals or companies with money to invest to keep the lights on. I think we'd get a few thousand interested individuals chipping in money - some a lot, most a little - but that wouldn't sustain a club over time. I can't find reliable figures, but I read one suggestion that back in 2011/12 the running costs for one step 3 (NPL-level) club were around 100k per year plus around 200k for staff and player wages. Another article I read suggested 1k plus per month at step 9/10. Plus, and this is not a massively rational argument I know, but while a phoenix club would be 'ours' for at least a while, it wouldn't be Oldham Athletic AFC. It woudn't have been a league runner-up, a cup finalist, a Second Division title winner, a founding member of the Premier League (pah). It wouldn't be the club of Royle, Frizzell, etc. I don't want to give up the history without more of a fight. For that reason I think the Trust, and any other supporters' groups, have to focus on pressuring the owners of the club we have, not getting distracted with ideas of a new club. Financial reserves should exist to enable those groups to step in if and when they can to save this club. Phoenix club becomes something to implement only if there is no OAFC. I don’t think anyone is saying you defer to a Phoenix as anything other than a last resort and having fought, and failed, to save OAFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 That's fair enough, @Andy b (and @GlossopLatic too). I'm not saying it's a stupid idea or inconceivable under any circumstance. I just think that while the club is solvent and mismanaged all of our efforts should be on pressuring the owners out, and any consideration of phoenix clubs right now is a distraction. I hope there's still a way to go before this club ceases to exist and we have to resort to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: You've kind of answered the question their was volunteers who came forward when it was most needed. Secondly the club was still alive at that point and efforts were being made to save it. If the club folded then or now the discourse would change we would be asked a different question no Oldham Athletic or an Oldham Athletic which we would have to start. This is kind of my point. Fans mobilise when the shit really hits the fan, and in dramatic fashion. All well known cases of fan action have happened in that context. half our fans, and the majority of the wider footballing world, don’t think we are in anymore than a bit of rut. That’s the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, Andy b said: half our fans, and the majority of the wider footballing world, don’t think we are in anymore than a bit of rut. That’s the problem Yep. Though playing devil's advocate, why would they? Club declining over thirty years to a level they've certainly been in before, mismanaged by unappetising owners, is hardly an unusual story to anyone not living it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy b Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, Crusoe said: Yep. Though playing devil's advocate, why would they? Club declining over thirty years to a level they've certainly been in before, mismanaged by unappetising owners, is hardly an unusual story to anyone not living it. They wouldn’t. Slow death that’s being happening for decades now our own fans are a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 23 minutes ago, Crusoe said: That's fair enough, @Andy b (and @GlossopLatic too). I'm not saying it's a stupid idea or inconceivable under any circumstance. I just think that while the club is solvent and mismanaged all of our efforts should be on pressuring the owners out, and any consideration of phoenix clubs right now is a distraction. I hope there's still a way to go before this club ceases to exist and we have to resort to that. I feel you are missing a very critical part of the point I'm making. I'm suggesting a pheonix club ONLY if the worst case scenario happened and the current Oldham Athletic was no more. That's is when a pheonix club would be on the table and that is when you would find volunteers coming forward that's when the fanbase would be mobilised to start one, when the options are that or nothing. Right now we are obviously trying to save this incarnation of Oldham Athletic. I do believe it will be saved somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 In that case my apologies for misunderstanding, @GlossopLatic. I’m on the same page now. I guess it just comes from extreme wariness on my page that we could be successful with a phoenix club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, Crusoe said: In that case my apologies for misunderstanding, @GlossopLatic. I’m on the same page now. I guess it just comes from extreme wariness on my page that we could be successful with a phoenix club. Yeah definitely it certainly wouldn't be a given let's hope it doesn't cone to that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fervid Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 5 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: While I really don't hope liquidation happens. The worst case scenario is we start at the bottom again become fan run for a number of years. If we get as little as 1500 turning up to watch the pheonix club we will be able to attract loads of decent semi-pro lads have some proper good days out at some of those non-league grounds climb the leagues and eventually get to a place where we can bring in investors and get back into the football league. It will be a long road but the journey will be epic. Give your head a shake ffs it would be an absolute shit show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 16 hours ago, maximus1267 said: I dont believe a phoenix club would work. The club we have needs saved and it will be. The club we have isn't even 20 years old.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaddy14 Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 Looking forward to the game today, hope some more of the team have regained fitness and glad AL is still picking up the costs (and big losses) of putting our team on the pitch whilst OEC and Blitz own all the assets. Would welcome a new owner if one really exists out there (willing to subsidise our losses) but until then I will continue to support the boys! If you wish to protest or boycott, that is your right of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximus1267 Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Monty Burns said: The club we have isn't even 20 years old.. But it is really isn't is it, putting 2004 in the name doesn 't mean the same as becoming a phoenix club. Two totally different things in my mind anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Monty Burns said: The club we have isn't even 20 years old.. The club is, the company isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 l'd feel the same about a phoenix club as the one l do now. Which is the same as l felt about the olde one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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