Dave_Og Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 16 minutes ago, maximus1267 said: This is my thicko basic take on this idea behind the logic behind this mindset. Club will be worth less. Al will ask for less. AL will want to sell, more so than he does currently. The club will lose an amount of payments. AL applies logic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: There seem to be some people who are convinced that relegation makes a sale more likely. No idea how anyone concludes that. Honestly Dave? What I’m saying isn’t a stretch. Can we all agree we want AL to go? Yes. Right. What’s the asking price. 6 million, which Matt said on the podcast is what AL claims he has put in and wants back. WHO IS PAYING 6 MILLION for a badge with no assets?????? The best I’ve heard so far. . . ‘we just have to hope we get a rich fan’ - good luck with that. He isn’t putting any money in, and that is not opinion there are countless examples that we’re being run on fumes. However we can just about survive at the minute with EFL money propping us up. If/when we go down - who is replacing that money??? It’s hundreds of thousand pounds. . . So the 3 choices will be. Cut the cloth again- which probably mean some sort of part time club. Put the club admin Sell up. Any of those 3 are possible, and who knows which AL will choose. But it is a fact that we lose a lot of money and some very tough decisions will have to be made. (I hope it pushes him out personally) What is not possible is that while we are a league club - some deluded white knight is going to rescue AL and all the money he has spent and give 6 MILLION for something h no assets. And I’ll say it again. No one wants relegation. No one. But it MAY I stress MAY be the only way AL will be ‘forced’ to leave though admin or selling. He could just cut his cloth again as I said and if he does - north west counties - here we come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, League one forever said: Honestly Dave? What I’m saying isn’t a stretch. Can we all agree we want AL to go? Yes. Right. What’s the asking price. 6 million, which Matt said on the podcast is what AL claims he has put in and wants back. WHO IS PAYING 6 MILLION for a badge with no assets?????? The best I’ve heard so far. . . ‘we just have to hope we get a rich fan’ - good luck with that. He isn’t putting any money in, and that is not opinion there are countless examples that we’re being run on fumes. However we can just about survive at the minute with EFL money propping us up. If/when we go down - who is replacing that money??? It’s hundreds of thousand pounds. . . So the 3 choices will be. Cut the cloth again- which probably mean some sort of part time club. Put the club admin Sell up. Any of those 3 are possible, and who knows which AL will choose. But it is a fact that we lose a lot of money and some very tough decisions will have to be made. (I hope it pushes him out personally) What is not possible is that while we are a league club - some deluded white knight is going to rescue AL and all the money he has spent and give 6 MILLION for something h no assets. And I’ll say it again. No one wants relegation. No one. But it MAY I stress MAY be the only way AL will be ‘forced’ to leave though admin or selling. He could just cut his cloth again as I said and if he does - north west counties - here we come. If he isn't putting money in surely the EFL would declare him as not a fit and proper owner? I guess he's topping up the wage bill after other income. That can't last long though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 5 hours ago, Dave_Og said: One of the great mores of the modern age is that 'everyone is entitled to an opinion'. Indeed so, but an opinion based on rational thought processes is infinitely more valuable than those based on sticking a finger in the air. Exactly. There are people out there in whose opinion the moon landings never happened. For others, aliens have landed on Earth in the past and may yet walk among us. 4 hours ago, League one forever said: So not that simple then. It really is, I'm afraid. As others have said elsewhere, some people have been saying for years that relegation is the answer. It clearly is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardie Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 I'm sure relegation would be heart breaking at a personal level for any Latics fan, regardless of age and opinion. I have this feeling, in the nether regions of my head and guts, that Latics are going to avoid it. Whether Curle will be the architect of that, I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Worcester Owl said: Exactly. There are people out there in whose opinion the moon landings never happened. For others, aliens have landed on Earth in the past and may yet walk among us. It really is, I'm afraid. As others have said elsewhere, some people have been saying for years that relegation is the answer. It clearly is not. Yeah. . . my argument is akin to aliens landing. What a moronic comment, and yet another who can’t debate without making warped remarks. I thought you were a better contributor than that. The trouble on here is, people can’t read or see beyond the very narrow prism of their own filters and just give generalised responses that has no bearing on what somebody has typed. Just so we are clear- who has said relegation is the answer?? NO. ONE. The debate is - how can AL leave. What’s it’s not - let’s pretend that relegation is our salvation that it will be a piece of piss to come back up. Literally no one has said that and unfortunately you keep making things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximus1267 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 29 minutes ago, League one forever said: Yeah. . . my argument is akin to aliens landing. What a moronic comment, and yet another who can’t debate without making warped remarks. I thought you were a better contributor than that. The trouble on here is, people can’t read or see beyond the very narrow prism of their own filters and just give generalised responses that has no bearing on what somebody has typed. Just so we are clear- who has said relegation is the answer?? NO. ONE. The debate is - how can AL leave. What’s it’s not - let’s pretend that relegation is our salvation that it will be a piece of piss to come back up. Literally no one has said that and unfortunately you keep making things up. Not everybody can articulate in writing the same as in words, some people may generalise because they dont believe they have enough knowledge to give a more articulate or less narrowed view. I can't say I know how to come accross like a business man or like someone from a financial background, I just want to come accross as a fan. Its a forum where we can all discuss and debate, we will all have very different ways of doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, maximus1267 said: Not everybody can articulate in writing the same as in words, some people may generalise because they dont believe they have enough knowledge to give a more articulate or less narrowed view. I can't say I know how to come accross like a business man or like someone from a financial background, I just want to come accross as a fan. Its a forum where we can all discuss and debate, we will all have very different ways of doing this. 100 percent Maxi. We disagreed the other day, but you’re the only person who asked my view and in more detail. We still didn’t agree, and that’s absolutely fine. But the fact you didn’t generalise my point, and sought to understand led to better debate. What we see a lot of is people making badly disguised digs just because they’re opinion is different, it comes across as very superior. Comments like- ‘you must a have a screw loose’ or ‘some believe aliens landed on the moon’ offer nothing to the debate and is only said because they haven’t bothered to actually read what people are saying. It’s lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlion Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 47 minutes ago, League one forever said: Yeah. . . my argument is akin to aliens landing. What a moronic comment, and yet another who can’t debate without making warped remarks. I thought you were a better contributor than that. The trouble on here is, people can’t read or see beyond the very narrow prism of their own filters and just give generalised responses that has no bearing on what somebody has typed. Just so we are clear- who has said relegation is the answer?? NO. ONE. The debate is - how can AL leave. What’s it’s not - let’s pretend that relegation is our salvation that it will be a piece of piss to come back up. Literally no one has said that and unfortunately you keep making things up. I agree entirely with what you are saying here. I was recently lambasted for saying I didn't think calling someone a "goat shagger" was racist. There was no discussion, I was just labelled as being racist. Frankly I don't think those people know what racism is. They don't even know me yet they are quick to attach labels to me in order to shut me up. What they don't know is that I have been the victim of racism several times and so have other members of my family. They sit behind their keyboards pontificating in their middle class white areas spouting about stuff they know nothing about. Rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, League one forever said: 100 percent Maxi. We disagreed the other day, but you’re the only person who asked my view and in more detail. We still didn’t agree, and that’s absolutely fine. But the fact you didn’t generalise my point, and sought to understand led to better debate. What we see a lot of is people making badly disguised digs just because they’re opinion is different, it comes across as very superior. Comments like- ‘you must a have a screw loose’ or ‘some believe aliens landed on the moon’ offer nothing to the debate and is only said because they haven’t bothered to actually read what people are saying. It’s lazy. You seem very sensitive. There have certainly been posters on here that have said that they are sure that relegation would make a sale more likely and so they'd take that. OK, that may not be the same as actively wanting relegation but it's pretty close. And I can see no reason to think that is a logical proposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximus1267 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Dave_Og said: You seem very sensitive. There have certainly been posters on here that have said that they are sure that relegation would make a sale more likely and so they'd take that. OK, that may not be the same as actively wanting relegation but it's pretty close. And I can see no reason to think that is a logical proposition. In the past when we have been relegated I've always thought we would bounce back because I always thought we were better than the division we were heading to, I know that is just being a blinkered fan. But now I truly feel we can't afford to lose our football league status, I understand all those arguments for because other fans believe that could be the better option. We all have different opinions on most matters but we all want the same outcome, a club we can enjoy once again and not feel ashamed of. As long as that happens I will be a happy fan again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Dave_Og said: You seem very sensitive. There have certainly been posters on here that have said that they are sure that relegation would make a sale more likely and so they'd take that. OK, that may not be the same as actively wanting relegation but it's pretty close. And I can see no reason to think that is a logical proposition. Ah . . the old sensitivity card. I used to get into Willy waving in the early days, and fight fire with fire. We can all say snide things from behind a keyboard can’t we. . These days I prefer to call people out in a different way, and try where possible to stay on topic. What I won’t do is have my point disregarded as waffle, or generalised or turned into something it’s not through lazy assumption. Relegation would be disaster, and I’m not sure we’d ever come back to he honest. But under this ownership it is a case of when and not if IMO. However If we went down and AL left at least we could try to turn it around and have something to be proud of again. The ultimate question is this. Do you want a shell of a club in league two, with an awful owner and just surviving year in year out. Who no one will buy or take on, because the price is exorbitant. Or Do you want to get AL out (probably through the disaster of relegation) in the hope we can rebuild the club. I know your answer, but things are that bad I believe that’s the choice we face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, League one forever said: Ah . . the old sensitivity card. I used to get into Willy waving in the early days, and fight fire with fire. We can all say snide things from behind a keyboard can’t we. . These days I prefer to call people out in a different way, and try where possible to stay on topic. What I won’t do is have my point disregarded as waffle, or generalised or turned into something it’s not through lazy assumption. Relegation would be disaster, and I’m not sure we’d ever come back to he honest. But under this ownership it is a case of when and not if IMO. However If we went down and AL left at least we could try to turn it around and have something to be proud of again. The ultimate question is this. Do you want a shell of a club in league two, with an awful owner and just surviving year in year out. Who no one will buy or take on, because the price is exorbitant. Or Do you want to get AL out (probably through the disaster of relegation) in the hope we can rebuild the club. I know your answer, but things are that bad I believe that’s the choice we face. We're actually agreeing on most things! The joy of misinterpreted social media!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcester Owl Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 4 hours ago, League one forever said: Yeah. . . my argument is akin to aliens landing. What a moronic comment, and yet another who can’t debate without making warped remarks. I thought you were a better contributor than that. The trouble on here is, people can’t read or see beyond the very narrow prism of their own filters and just give generalised responses that has no bearing on what somebody has typed. Just so we are clear- who has said relegation is the answer?? NO. ONE. The debate is - how can AL leave. What’s it’s not - let’s pretend that relegation is our salvation that it will be a piece of piss to come back up. Literally no one has said that and unfortunately you keep making things up. Good to see Matt's recent request for less personal abuse is being acknowledged Still, your emotional and repetitive post provides further evidence that your argument for relegation is completely irrational. I already knew that, and so that you don't waste my time further, you're blocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 24 minutes ago, Worcester Owl said: Good to see Matt's recent request for less personal abuse is being acknowledged Still, your emotional and repetitive post provides further evidence that your argument for relegation is completely irrational. I already knew that, and so that you don't waste my time further, you're blocked. Oh dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseowl Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Let's be honest, the little spats on here can often liven up a debate! I suppose it's about learning not to take things too seriously and not always rise to the bait. I can be guilty of being somewhat blinkered in my view and passionately believing I am correct (honestly, I can!). Having recently, however, read a book by a behavioural expert titled "Surrounded by Idiots", I now have a much deeper understanding of why others see things differently to me and it has made me a much more balanced individual. I now fully appreciate that others are fully entitled to their (incorrect) opinion and I celebrate the rich diversity of views on here. Bless you all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 10 hours ago, wiseowl said: Let's be honest, the little spats on here can often liven up a debate! I suppose it's about learning not to take things too seriously and not always rise to the bait. I can be guilty of being somewhat blinkered in my view and passionately believing I am correct (honestly, I can!). Having recently, however, read a book by a behavioural expert titled "Surrounded by Idiots", I now have a much deeper understanding of why others see things differently to me and it has made me a much more balanced individual. I now fully appreciate that others are fully entitled to their (incorrect) opinion and I celebrate the rich diversity of views on here. Bless you all! True although people have to accept that, the debate on here is robust if people can't stand their point of view being challenged then a message board isn't for you. Knowone is forcing anyone to post. If people are constantly having to fall back into the I'm entitled to my opinion line its probably a sign your losing the arguement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: True although people have to accept that, the debate on here is robust if people can't stand their point of view being challenged then a message board isn't for you. Knowone is forcing anyone to post. If people are constantly having to fall back into the I'm entitled to my opinion line its probably a sign your losing the arguement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 48 minutes ago, League one forever said: You do realise that by posting those rather passive aggressive emojis you have just proved my point don't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 39 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: You do realise that by posting those rather passive aggressive emojis you have just proved my point don't you. You do realise the irony of what you post don’t you? Perception is projection- look it up you may learn something. . . On second thoughts you probably won’t. As you were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League one forever Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 4 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: True although people have to accept that, the debate on here is robust if people can't stand their point of view being challenged then a message board isn't for you. Knowone is forcing anyone to post. If people are constantly having to fall back into the I'm entitled to my opinion line its probably a sign your losing the arguement. So by definition - you post to win arguments. . . and there in lies the problem. You want to ‘debate’ I’m right your wrong - or worse- my view is superior to yours. It’s very sad. Very few want to listen to another view, and understand that agreement is irrelevant as long as there is genuine interest in another view other than your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlion Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 4 hours ago, GlossopLatic said: True although people have to accept that, the debate on here is robust if people can't stand their point of view being challenged then a message board isn't for you. Knowone is forcing anyone to post. If people are constantly having to fall back into the I'm entitled to my opinion line its probably a sign your losing the arguement. That's really rich coming from you. If you can't stand your point of view being challenged you immediately resort to insults. You and a few others on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, redlion said: That's really rich coming from you. If you can't stand your point of view being challenged you immediately resort to insults. You and a few others on this forum. I'm sorry were you not the one calling people "wet snowflakes" are you sure it was me being the "snowflake" here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 16 minutes ago, League one forever said: So by definition - you post to win arguments. . . and there in lies the problem. You want to ‘debate’ I’m right your wrong - or worse- my view is superior to yours. It’s very sad. Very few want to listen to another view, and understand that agreement is irrelevant as long as there is genuine interest in another view other than your own. Look I don't know you and I'm not out to get you. On the other thread we talked about the prospect of relegation you're arguement here is correct if I'm wrong relegation will likely mean him sell the club. My counter arguement is that their isn't really any true evidence to show that this will happen. I do acknowledge its a possibility but nothing we can rely on, that's why I disagree. I mean that is debate right one where one person puts forward an argument and the other puts forward a counter argument. Now we don't have to agree that's fine but don't sit their complaining and getting super defensive that people challenge you on what you post. People do it to me all the time and sometimes I'm in the minority and sometimes I'm wrong that happens. It's not personal it's only a message board. At the end of the day we are all here because we all want the best for the team in Blue (or tangerine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said: Look I don't know you and I'm not out to get you. On the other thread we talked about the prospect of relegation you're arguement here is correct if I'm wrong relegation will likely mean him sell the club. My counter arguement is that their isn't really any true evidence to show that this will happen. I do acknowledge its a possibility but nothing we can rely on, that's why I disagree. I mean that is debate right one where one person puts forward an argument and the other puts forward a counter argument. Now we don't have to agree that's fine but don't sit their complaining and getting super defensive that people challenge you on what you post. People do it to me all the time and sometimes I'm in the minority and sometimes I'm wrong that happens. It's not personal it's only a message board. At the end of the day we are all here because we all want the best for the team in Blue (or tangerine) Top post. Totally agree. The only time that I would push back, apart from when someone posts offensive content, is when the post includes obvious inaccuracies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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