MATCH: vs Northampton Town (A) 23/11/21

[Frankies6]

2 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

 

I've been criticised on here for banging on about it all season, but I've been an observer of the game for many years and said early doors the 3 centre backs formation cannot  work with the players we have.

The 2nd half with a flat back 4 showed the  players were far more comfortable with this tactic.

However, I credit Curle with taking his head out of the sand at last.

Let's hope he doesn't bury it again and revert to type at Salford.

His biggest mistake though was not bringing in a big, strong centre forward who could score a few goals in the transfer window when he had ample chance instead of putting all his faith in Hope and telling us many times he will score goals.

 

I hope I'm wrong but we will no doubt be back to 3 at the back on Saturday.. 442 is a simple formation and one I believe is adequate enough for this tinpot league.

[League one forever]

50 minutes ago, Chaddyexile84 said:

Maybe the £800 a week restriction is on basic wage only and Hope gets another £1,000 per appearance 

 

I can’t think of any other reason he’s in the squad never mind on the pitch 

Aye, good shout. 
 

 

[Ryan]

First league game I've watched this season.

 

I think we'll just about stay up - cut out the defensive mishaps and we're a mid table side.

 

The goals will come.

[Gary1906]

7 minutes ago, Ryan said:

First league game I've watched this season.

 

I think we'll just about stay up - cut out the defensive mishaps and we're a mid table side.

 

The goals will come.

I don’t want to sound too pessimistic but I don’t really see where the goals are going to come from. Hope doesn’t look like he’s got a goal in him, Dearnley can score if he stays fit, but that’s a big if. DKD will score his share, but other than that our forward line or attacking midfielders just don’t seem to have goals in them. 

[Dave_Og]

It's at the stage where only losing two one is something to be happy about 

[Andy Barlow’s dietician]

I was at the game tonight so a few thoughts and observations.

 

the first half was settling into a very satisfactory uneventful stalemate until we gifted them a goal. From then on they were well on top and all the predictable frailties of the dreaded 3 at the back were evident.

 

Fage really struggled with that formation meaning McGahey got pulled right leaving lovely spaces for them to get between and behind us. We looked vulnerable at the back and weak in midfield, winning little second ball and allowing them to knock it forward and play off their very effective big centre forward (19, he scored the second I think).

 

Even though mostly at sea, we did at times look tidy enough when we got the ball down and played it around. Dearnley and DKD posed some threat, though it was mostly scraps they had to work with. 
 

Special mention in the first half must go to Cisse who may have been attempting to execute a cunning plan of Keef’s, but it was perhaps too funky for him or anyone else to understand. He spent most of the half as a marooned bystander stationed somewhere in what in old money might have been called a ‘number 10 role’ where he managed to avoid being anywhere near the ball for the majority of the half. He then either gave up on the plan, or forgot that was what he was supposed to do and dropped back into midfield in the last few minutes of the half, where he then at least touched the ball on a couple of occasions, although I don’t think he made a single tackle or closed anyone down.

 

With the game effectively over, Keef then pulled out a tactical masterclass with three subs and a change to (would you believe it), 4 at the back. The effect was instant and the second half was a huge improvement.

 

All the back 4, even Fage, were much more comfortable and tight, and the errors and trepidation mostly disappeared. Whilst I fully acknowledge his limitations (which are magnified in a back 3 that try to play out from the back), Pidge was excellent in the 2nd half, and won everything in the air. Hart too was really solid and began to also pose a threat going forward. Funnily enough both full backs were able to make an impression in the final third in the second half, whereas in the first the wing backs offered little going forward.

 

Bowden and Whelan were closer together and started to pass it and play a bit, with DKD and Mayo providing an option for a give and go. We won the midfield in the second half, whereas we were overrun in the first.

 

upfront was interesting. Hope took a bit of flak from what was an otherwise very quiet away end (only one ‘abdallah out’ all night, followed by an ‘abdallah in’ would you believe), but I will defend his performance tonight. He worked hard and played tight on the shoulder of the centre half, causing some problems. He clearly is not a natural 9, and seems technically limited in his ability to time his jumps to win a header. He wins nothing in the air, so is not best suited by a target man’s job. He did though find space, run some channels, and once or twice took the ball tight with the centre half and turned him. He is absolutely not the target man we are crying out for (their 19 or even the 9 who replaced him late on both are, and we would be a far better side with either of them in the team), but Hope did improve us when he came on and I think quietened the boo boys just a little with his performance tonight.

 

Hopcutt was actually more impactful than Hope. He played well in the second half, tending to drop off Hope a bit (perhaps Cisse gave him a few tips about playing the number 10 role at half time?), and causing some problems. He was physical and wanted the ball, and actually was reasonably effective in the air (he does know how to time a jump). I would say Hopcutt is a keeper and if his fitness allows he will strengthen the team.

 

Whether Hope and Hopcutt are the best pairing upfront I can’t say, but we know Mayo should not play there, and although we only had a few glimpses tonight, and his work rate and desire were still questionable, it is as plain as day that he has to play wide. When he does he will always be an outlet (because he can be relied upon to have a good first touch and thus retain possession) and will produce some magic from time to time that might win us a game.

 

We were the better team in the second half and created enough to nick a point. I’m not convinced that Northampton just sat back and defended what they had, I think we stopped them playing and took the initiative. Shame we had a mountain to climb after the first half.

 

so it is blindingly obvious that those players fit better into a system with a conventional back four, and should Keef make it to the weekend he has to set up in a similar way at Salford.

 

based on that 45 minutes, we might have enough to stay up, but much depends on the manager and his pride. If we see 3 centre backs and Cisse again on Saturday then for me it is time to make a change.

[daniel]

1 hour ago, Gary1906 said:

I don’t want to sound too pessimistic but I don’t really see where the goals are going to come from. Hope doesn’t look like he’s got a goal in him, Dearnley can score if he stays fit, but that’s a big if. DKD will score his share, but other than that our forward line or attacking midfielders just don’t seem to have goals in them. 

To be fair we have been scoring goals recently. It’s the other end which seems to be the issue also. Appreciate the goals don’t come from strikers much which isn’t ideal but we have at least been scoring more than earlier in the season. Something like 14 goals in our last 9. Ok it’s not blistering is it, but they’ll be worse records out there. 

[TheBigDog]

7 hours ago, Andy Barlow’s dietician said:

I was at the game tonight so a few thoughts and observations.

 

the first half was settling into a very satisfactory uneventful stalemate until we gifted them a goal. From then on they were well on top and all the predictable frailties of the dreaded 3 at the back were evident.

 

Fage really struggled with that formation meaning McGahey got pulled right leaving lovely spaces for them to get between and behind us. We looked vulnerable at the back and weak in midfield, winning little second ball and allowing them to knock it forward and play off their very effective big centre forward (19, he scored the second I think).

 

Even though mostly at sea, we did at times look tidy enough when we got the ball down and played it around. Dearnley and DKD posed some threat, though it was mostly scraps they had to work with. 
 

Special mention in the first half must go to Cisse who may have been attempting to execute a cunning plan of Keef’s, but it was perhaps too funky for him or anyone else to understand. He spent most of the half as a marooned bystander stationed somewhere in what in old money might have been called a ‘number 10 role’ where he managed to avoid being anywhere near the ball for the majority of the half. He then either gave up on the plan, or forgot that was what he was supposed to do and dropped back into midfield in the last few minutes of the half, where he then at least touched the ball on a couple of occasions, although I don’t think he made a single tackle or closed anyone down.

 

With the game effectively over, Keef then pulled out a tactical masterclass with three subs and a change to (would you believe it), 4 at the back. The effect was instant and the second half was a huge improvement.

 

All the back 4, even Fage, were much more comfortable and tight, and the errors and trepidation mostly disappeared. Whilst I fully acknowledge his limitations (which are magnified in a back 3 that try to play out from the back), Pidge was excellent in the 2nd half, and won everything in the air. Hart too was really solid and began to also pose a threat going forward. Funnily enough both full backs were able to make an impression in the final third in the second half, whereas in the first the wing backs offered little going forward.

 

Bowden and Whelan were closer together and started to pass it and play a bit, with DKD and Mayo providing an option for a give and go. We won the midfield in the second half, whereas we were overrun in the first.

 

upfront was interesting. Hope took a bit of flak from what was an otherwise very quiet away end (only one ‘abdallah out’ all night, followed by an ‘abdallah in’ would you believe), but I will defend his performance tonight. He worked hard and played tight on the shoulder of the centre half, causing some problems. He clearly is not a natural 9, and seems technically limited in his ability to time his jumps to win a header. He wins nothing in the air, so is not best suited by a target man’s job. He did though find space, run some channels, and once or twice took the ball tight with the centre half and turned him. He is absolutely not the target man we are crying out for (their 19 or even the 9 who replaced him late on both are, and we would be a far better side with either of them in the team), but Hope did improve us when he came on and I think quietened the boo boys just a little with his performance tonight.

 

Hopcutt was actually more impactful than Hope. He played well in the second half, tending to drop off Hope a bit (perhaps Cisse gave him a few tips about playing the number 10 role at half time?), and causing some problems. He was physical and wanted the ball, and actually was reasonably effective in the air (he does know how to time a jump). I would say Hopcutt is a keeper and if his fitness allows he will strengthen the team.

 

Whether Hope and Hopcutt are the best pairing upfront I can’t say, but we know Mayo should not play there, and although we only had a few glimpses tonight, and his work rate and desire were still questionable, it is as plain as day that he has to play wide. When he does he will always be an outlet (because he can be relied upon to have a good first touch and thus retain possession) and will produce some magic from time to time that might win us a game.

 

We were the better team in the second half and created enough to nick a point. I’m not convinced that Northampton just sat back and defended what they had, I think we stopped them playing and took the initiative. Shame we had a mountain to climb after the first half.

 

so it is blindingly obvious that those players fit better into a system with a conventional back four, and should Keef make it to the weekend he has to set up in a similar way at Salford.

 

based on that 45 minutes, we might have enough to stay up, but much depends on the manager and his pride. If we see 3 centre backs and Cisse again on Saturday then for me it is time to make a change.

Top post.

 

Dreadful balance to the team in the first half and the ‘Cisse’ experiment was rightly binned at half time.

 

We were a different team in the second half. In fact some of our passing was very slick and incisive. The end product however was still poor - Hope (who made a real difference) glancing a header wide, Hart with a weak shot straight at the keeper and Hopcutt failing to keep the ball down as he blasted the ball over the bar.

 

Bahamboula - the enigma - if only he would keep it simple, he would have so much more impact in the final third. On occasions there were three Northampton players closing him down - just move the ball on when that happens instead of trying to beat them all.

And that attempted cross when bursting into the box - just use your left foot and not try a rabona flick (which ended up in the side netting).

 

Also, even though he has scored a few, DKD does not know how to tackle and was extremely poor last night.

 

Playing 4 at the back was far more effective

Playing Hope and Hopcutt up front was far more effective

Let’s hope that Curle can see the blindingly obvious in time for Salford. If he doesn’t and we play like we did in the first half then it could get very lively in the away end

 

@Andy Barlow’s dietician I suggest sending your post to Curle for his comments…

[the_mighty_bosh]

9 hours ago, Andy Barlow’s dietician said:

 

so it is blindingly obvious that those players fit better into a system with a conventional back four, and should Keef make it to the weekend he has to set up in a similar way at Salford.

 

based on that 45 minutes, we might have enough to stay up, but much depends on the manager and his pride. If we see 3 centre backs and Cisse again on Saturday then for me it is time to make a change.

 

An excellent post and this part is massive for me.

 

Players are now mostly back from injury and, while it isn't a particularly good squad, it should have enough in it to stay up over the course of the season from what I've seen.  Even if the embargo is still in place and there's next to no player turnover I think this squad should stay up.

 

This means that Curle now has nowhere to hide.  While there are still problems in central midfield and up front, this team and squad can function well in a 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 and it has been proven on almost every occasion that this 3-5-2 or 3-4-2-1 doesn't work for the players.  Yesterday evening was the most stark example so far, meaning that Curle has an obvious chance to do the right thing on Saturday at Salford.

 

If we play 3 at the back, perform badly and lose on Saturday then I think he'll show once and for all that he's not able to adapt and the Lemsagam's will finally have the opportunity to do a justifiable sacking in order to avert a completely disastrous season. 

 

Of course the painful irony is that they probably won't sack him despite having good reason to because they can't afford to/don't care enough anymore.  Utter fuck up's that they are.

[deyres42]

Not sure one half of football against a side 2 nil up means a back four is the magic bullet...

[Monty Burns]

lf he plays 3 at the back at weekend l'll be starting to think he is too pig headed for the job/squad at hand

[BP1960]

33 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Not sure one half of football against a side 2 nil up means a back four is the magic bullet...

 

What's the alternative in your opinion?

[the_mighty_bosh]

23 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Not sure one half of football against a side 2 nil up means a back four is the magic bullet...

 

It's not the first time it's happened this season.  Games playing 3 at the back, going 2-0 down, changing formation and getting the next goal include:

 

Colchester

Harrogate

Walsall

Swindon

Exeter

Last night

 

Add to that Bristol Rovers where we changed from 3 at the back to 4 and significantly improved (from admittedly a very, very low point) and there's a fair amount of evidence that the back 4 will improve us.  I'm not against 3 at the back as a general rule, but it doesn't work well with our current squad.

[Ryan]

On 11/23/2021 at 10:49 PM, Ryan said:

First league game I've watched this season.

 

I think we'll just about stay up - cut out the defensive mishaps and we're a mid table side.

 

The goals will come.

Disavow.