costadelblue Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Of course you're right about the fans being the victims. What this does prove is that if you can't pay all your debts, you must make sure that HMRC is satisfed with the level of your payments. Every fan knows that in his or her own financial affairs and every business knows it too, but there will always be some businessmen who try to beat the system. But isn't that the crux of the whole matter and Ken Bates's argument. In an attempt to satisfy the tax man they couldn't go down the CVA route, hence the leagues "special circumstances" in allowing Leeds their share back. Anyway you look at it I don't think its right to penalise the fans. What can they do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 nothing, but then if you don't what will those fans think when every other team does the same thing to remove THEIR debt and the league becomes complete anarchy!? They HAD to be punished and I'm stunned the league stood up to it. It was a brave but correct decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Skipping over the issue of what Leeds fans deserve, there really is no way to punish clubs who act irresponsibly except to dock points. Obviously a fine makes no odds to a bankrupt team, what else is there? The rules are there to discourage people gambling on the future of a club, Bates thought he could blag it and he got found out big style. It might discourage the next chancer. Let's see who is keen to jump aboard the Bates bandwagon when they won't be in the Premiership until at least 2010. Returning to those fans, well they'll still go won't they? I remember being glad just to have a club, not expecting us to be allowed to flaunt every rule in the book to give us the best chance of promotion the following season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
help_shiny Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 sod Leeds and sod their fans. If it was another 'lower league' club then they wouldnt even be playing. Out of the 40 odd occasions over recent years when clubs have gone into administration every single one of them has fulfilled the league rules on coming out of it - Leeds havent, they're run by a crook and now they're paying the price. If it was us or Hartlepool or Rochdale or etc etc then they wouldnt even have been given the 'golden share' - the 15 points is just a special measure to allow the rules to be broken as it would be PR disaster for the league if Leeds vanished into oblivion. A choice between being docked 15 points and being chucked out of the league? No choice at all really is it? Yes it's hard on the fans but people cant be allowed to hide behind that. Punish West Ham for continually lying to the league? Oh no we cant do that - what about the poor little fans. Punish Leeds for taking the p***? Oh no we cant do that - what about the poor little fans. Sod 'em all. I hope they go down. and down again. and down. down. down. WE ALL HATE LEEDS AND LEEDS AND LEEDS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 But isn't that the crux of the whole matter and Ken Bates's argument. In an attempt to satisfy the tax man they couldn't go down the CVA route, hence the leagues "special circumstances" in allowing Leeds their share back. Anyway you look at it I don't think its right to penalise the fans. What can they do? Ok, let's go though the facts. The CVA was deemed unacceptable to the tax man mainly because their were 2 creditors using the size of their credit to sway the CVA decision by waiving their debt if bates was approved over other offers. The creditors involved were 2 off shore companies, with hidden identities, directors, owners etc. I wonder how the debts to these companies arose? and how with another offshore company they had half the leeds debt? So the los of the CVA route was down to bates's machinations. So what could the FL do? Refuse the golden share? That would have been the biggest punishment to the fans. Relegate them to Lge 2? Again, big impact on fans. So, allow them back? but there has to be a meaningful penalty. Has to be more than the admin penalty so 15 pts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAV Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 70 out of 71 clubs voted, so who didn't cast a vote and why?????...Leeds are number72, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekWilson_1968 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 (edited) 70 out of 71 clubs voted, so who didn't cast a vote and why?????...Leeds are number72, Leicester didn't vote. Mandaric missed his flight and vote, though got there for the judgement. KtF, Derek. Edit: half pissed. Edited August 9, 2007 by DerekWilson_1968 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky_Latic Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 They should be thankful they're not called Boston United and stop frickin moaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penrhyn Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Thank goodness for that, well done the league for sticking to their guns. Leeds are lucky to escape with this in my view yes you can if you wish feel sorry for the decent leeds fans which i am sure there are some. The main culprit here is Bates who thought he was being clever once more. Be interesting to see how leeds start now if they win the first five games, or if they lose a few.Wonder what would happen if they got relegated again,would they be able to go into administration again? Either way I dont see them going up this year the way they wilted last year me thinks they will find it tough, shame innit!!! Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeneyes Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 May I link this chatter with the previous discussion? I would like to thank messrs Wilson and Diego Sideburns for the excellent work done re the words to Minus 15, will be singing it to myself all day! Ruthie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StipeTripe Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 sod Leeds and sod their fans. If it was another 'lower league' club then they wouldnt even be playing. Out of the 40 odd occasions over recent years when clubs have gone into administration every single one of them has fulfilled the league rules on coming out of it - Leeds havent, they're run by a crook and now they're paying the price. If it was us or Hartlepool or Rochdale or etc etc then they wouldnt even have been given the 'golden share' - the 15 points is just a special measure to allow the rules to be broken as it would be PR disaster for the league if Leeds vanished into oblivion. A choice between being docked 15 points and being chucked out of the league? No choice at all really is it? Yes it's hard on the fans but people cant be allowed to hide behind that. Punish West Ham for continually lying to the league? Oh no we cant do that - what about the poor little fans. Punish Leeds for taking the p***? Oh no we cant do that - what about the poor little fans. Sod 'em all. I hope they go down. and down again. and down. down. down. WE ALL HATE LEEDS AND LEEDS AND LEEDS Spot on HS, totally spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Be interesting to see how leeds start now if they win the first five games, or if they lose a few.Wonder what would happen if they got relegated again,would they be able to go into administration again? Robert I'm not sure how it works in football, but I would imagine this is going to be a hell of an expensive time for Bates- paying for everything up front. Who's going to extend credit to him now? Then again, who was daft enough to give him credit in the first place with his history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Last season, 15 points would have been enough to send the 11th placed team down. So if they finish in between where Forest and Wednesday did in their first seasons down here, we should be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Last season, 15 points would have been enough to send the 11th placed team down. So if they finish in between where Forest and Wednesday did in their first seasons down here, we should be fine Lets be realistic about leeds' chances... they have an awful manager, but I imagine this penalty has made them more fired up then ever.... what annoys me is that even with thier financial "poverty" they have still managed to assemble what is possibly the best squad in the league.... thier strikers alone should be enough to brush aside most clubs - Flo, Beckford, Constantine ..... and I bet they still sign 5 or so players more over the next few weeks..... Leeds aint going down.... as much as I hate it... I wouldnt be suprised if they made the playoffs..... Anyway - Tranmere V Leeds tomorrow - now, if there ever was a game where I wished the referee would replace the ball with a hand grenade, now that would be it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Up until Rotherham sold their better players in the jan window last time around a side started with such a deficit I actually thought they'd get out. Well in fact they did and would have but for the fire sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Up until Rotherham sold their better players in the jan window last time around a side started with such a deficit I actually thought they'd get out. Well in fact they did and would have but for the fire sale. I hate the football league because a team's standing should be decided on the pitch, not among the 70-odd chairmen and what-have-you. And I feel so soooo sorry for Leeds fans because they have suffered so much over the past few years what with that publicity Pete and that champions league semi and that. Sooo sorry... I probably wouldn't be as sympathetic if, say, Scunthorpe got deducted points in similar circumstances. The fact is that Leeds are a special, exceptional club whose fans are the salt of the earth. At the end of the day, that's who I feel sorry for the most - them beautiful, long-suffering fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 I hate the football league because a team's standing should be decided on the pitch, not among the 70-odd chairmen and what-have-you. And I feel so soooo sorry for Leeds fans because they have suffered so much over the past few years what with that publicity Pete and that champions league semi and that. Sooo sorry... I probably wouldn't be as sympathetic if, say, Scunthorpe got deducted points in similar circumstances. The fact is that Leeds are a special, exceptional club whose fans are the salt of the earth. At the end of the day, that's who I feel sorry for the most - them beautiful, long-suffering fans. A truly beautiful summary - thoughts echoed from the hearts of thousands of other latics fans.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJazzer Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 To all those fans, not just Tics, who were spat on year in year out after coming through that subway tunnel..... Heres to you Leeds, may you rot in peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJazzer Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Any progress being made on that emoticon with the -15 sign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Any progress being made on that emoticon with the -15 sign? And the one with the Congalese flag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 And the one with the Congalese flag? Frankly, I can scarcely give credit to the testament of my senses! You and others are using this very serious thread to talk about something as frivolous as emoticons. I am confounded that there are not more like me out there who are suffering paroxyms of grief at the heinous violation of natural justice suffered by L**ds and their fans - their wonderful, soulful and warm-hearted fans. Because of this scandal, I think that my interest in the sport might have come to a conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolatic Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 I hate the football league because a team's standing should be decided on the pitch ......... hence Sheffield United's relegation. Not going too well for some of Yorkshire's clubs at present....... Bradford, Rotherham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Frankly, I can scarcely give credit to the testament of my senses! You and others are using this very serious thread to talk about something as frivolous as emoticons. I am confounded that there are not more like me out there who are suffering paroxyms of grief at the heinous violation of natural justice suffered by L**ds and their fans - their wonderful, soulful and warm-hearted fans. Because of this scandal, I think that my interest in the sport might have come to a conclusion. Ezactly - the use of the appropriate emoticon is crucial to avoid a misunderstanding over a particular post. e.g. your emoticon turned what appeared to be a serious matter into P.S. Why should Kalala be the only one of our players/loanees without a national emticon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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