Guest sheridans_world Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 (edited) Let's not forget that the team has been on a downward spiral for a long time. We only just scraped into the play-offs and then the team failed to perform in either leg. We weren't the best team against Swansea, but we got three points. I dont agree with this, there are only 4 players in our 'ideal' starting 11 that played last season being Eardley, Taylor, Gregan and Liddell. The 'team' is not in a downward spiral, there are too many new faces to say that. I think Gregan causes us more problems than he solves for us. When he was playing for a contract he was awesome and strolled around the pitch like an arrogant Colossus. Now he is like a very average pub player. He cannot deal with forwards who are good with the ball at their feet and can turn quickly. He is determined to make physical contact with the opposition even when there is no need. I aint getting too far into the Gregan arguement apart from to say that Diego hasnt seen enough games in the last few weeks to comment on an overall downturn in form. I have only missed Carlisle so far, for that, i cannot comment. Diego however missed Swansea, Bristol Rovers and Burnley. Surley you cannot judge a player on 2 matches out of 5 ? Personally i think he played well against Burnley, Bristol Rovers and Swansea. Hartlepool was a bad game, players have off days but still i dont think he played appallingly. I do however agree that he can be a bit of a bully, i have not seen any of it this season (maybe because he has the armband and has decided that its better to encourage?) but last season him blaming less was appalling. As i say i have not seen any of this yet this term. The arm band has improved his attitude (so far) and his command of the defence. If you are going to pick on anyone, pick on Thompson, he has cost us far more points than Gregan this season. (Although he had a blinder against Burnley!) Edited September 3, 2007 by sheridans_world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma06 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 If you are going to pick on anyone, pick on Thompson, he has cost us far more points than Gregan this season. (Although he had a blinder against Burnley!) At the beginning of the season i thought Thompson was shocking but he seems to be settling in nicely now, he reads the play well and has slightly more pace than Gregan and has no problems going in for 50/50 balls but he does get pulled out of position far too much he seems to just follow the guy he's marking leaving huge gaps at the back which isn't helping either Gregan or Eardley. As i said earlier i don't think Gregan is as good as some people think but at this level he has the ability to be a decent centre half he just needs to stick to the things he does best and keep things simple but i think all over the team players just need time to settle in and get used to playing with each other. It takes time, we have changed our team so much over the last few seasons we just need a little patience for Shez to get his best starting 11 sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share Posted September 3, 2007 I dont agree with this, there are only 4 players in our 'ideal' starting 11 that played last season being Eardley, Taylor, Gregan and Liddell. The 'team' is not in a downward spiral, there are too many new faces to say that. I aint getting too far into the Gregan arguement apart from to say that Diego hasnt seen enough games in the last few weeks to comment on an overall downturn in form. I have only missed Carlisle so far, for that, i cannot comment. Diego however missed Swansea, Bristol Rovers and Burnley. Surley you cannot judge a player on 2 matches out of 5 ? Blimey I've missed two games, which I expect to be my quota for the season, and I'm being treated like a part-timer! I saw the Swansea game - the confusion arises from Bigfin asking if I was at Swansea when Gregan was "an absolute powerhouse, without which our team would be in disseray" and at Brizzle. I Thought that he couldn't possibly mean Gregan's display against Swansea this season with that description, so I took him to mean the away games last season, when I didn't go to Swansea, but I did go to Bristol City. I'm talking about the old team and the new team and Gregan, who was in both teams, has played nowhere near his best for many months (apart from Burnley where I accept he played well by all accounts in my absence). I've seen three of the five league games and all the friendlies except Barrow, and I see the same faults in Gregan's play week after week, continued from last season. I would even go as far as to say he's taking advantage of his captain's armband by pushing his luck even further with officials. It was generally accepted that he was lucky not to be sent off against Swansea even though they ref saw him slap a Swansea player. At the risk of keep repeating myself, I see faults in every player, but I'm highlighting the fact that Gregan (captain, leader, blah, blah) can do a lot better. If he continues to play like he is doing (apart from Burnley) we will not go onwards and upwards. All he needs to do is get back to the form he showed which got us to the top of the league, and his example will bring the best out of the other players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Blimey I've missed two games, which I expect to be my quota for the season, and I'm being treated like a part-timer! Part-timer. Call yourself a fan? Where's your commitment? You'll be telling us that you were actually at Hartlepool next! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share Posted September 3, 2007 Part-timer. Call yourself a fan? Where's your commitment? You'll be telling us that you were actually at Hartlepool next! I thought I'd got used to this. I once missed a LDV game due to work commitments and the fans I sit with in the Chaddy have never let me forget it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 During the Bristol game Gregan took the ball out on one of his runs, nearly lost it but went in and crunched the bloke who was looking to receive it. Cue cheers all round and people round and about saying he was immense. It was a very solid tackle, but all I could see was our centre half on his arse 30 yards in front of his position whilst the other side were running forward with the ball. He needs to focus less on his trademark stuff and just play the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 That was over near us LL. I agree, he could look 100 times better making the basic things look very easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJazzer Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 I remember one of the first games of last season, think it was Port Vale at home 0-0. Stam hoofed the ball forward every time it came near him, whether he had time and space or not. 3 or 4 games later and he was one of our best players (IMO). Dont panic, form ebb and flow like the tide but quality stays forever. KTF P.s. If Stam comes back and finds the form he had before his injury last season then problem solved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 You point out that "If he was a bit quicker and didn't make the odd mistake he'd still be playing in the Premiership" - I think you meant Championship. No, I meant Premiership. He captained West Brom in the Prem (admittedly to relegation...). To some degree we're in agreement. Yes he makes mistakes. And Saturday at Hartlepool he had a poor game when you'd perhaps hope the captain would round up the troops and try and lead them out of adversity (or something... Charge of the Light Brigade anyone? ). However, on balance, I believe we benefit hugely from his experience and leadership on the pitch, and I'm certain he'll do more good for us than bad. Ultimately, we have to accept that even our best players are playing League One football - if they were as good as we sometime hoped (and some seem to expect) we'd never have managed to sign them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share Posted September 3, 2007 No, I meant Premiership. He captained West Brom in the Prem (admittedly to relegation...). To some degree we're in agreement. Yes he makes mistakes. And Saturday at Hartlepool he had a poor game when you'd perhaps hope the captain would round up the troops and try and lead them out of adversity (or something... Charge of the Light Brigade anyone? ). However, on balance, I believe we benefit hugely from his experience and leadership on the pitch, and I'm certain he'll do more good for us than bad. Ultimately, we have to accept that even our best players are playing League One football - if they were as good as we sometime hoped (and some seem to expect) we'd never have managed to sign them. Fair enough about WBA, but we got him from dirty Leeds who were in the Championship. We know that those players still with us from last season can play really well - they set the benchmark, but their form has dropped well below it for a long time now. Those who've joined us looked good against Sheffield Wednesday - the Owls have proved to be a vey poor side - if we start to play to our strengths we should be OK. Who knows we may even do a Blackpool, but that big improvement is needed, starting with our leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Agreed on that. I think it'll come. And I think he'll be a catalyst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted September 4, 2007 Author Share Posted September 4, 2007 I've taken this post from another thread to illustrate what I've been saying: Gregan has had 4 good games for Latics. They were all before he signed, since scunny away he hasnt shown that class that he shown before he signed. Just my opinion! Its feels like he played well to get his" foot in the door" and once it was in, he sat back. Even the 'Queen of bloody Sheba' would have to say that he's played more than 4 good games for Latics, but I agree with the point of the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 P.s. If Stam comes back and finds the form he had before his injury last season then problem solved! Until he gets injured again Even the 'Queen of bloody Sheba' would have to say that he's played more than 4 good games for Latics, but I agree with the point of the post. So you are saying he is a good player? Because i was actually under the impression that you didnt think he was up to it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted September 4, 2007 Author Share Posted September 4, 2007 QUOTE(Diego_Sideburns @ Sep 4 2007, 07:11 AM) Even the 'Queen of bloody Sheba' would have to say that he's played more than 4 good games for Latics, but I agree with the point of the post. So you are saying he is a good player? Because i was actually under the impression that you didnt think he was up to it at all. You must have been reading only every other line of my posts. I said he used to be our best player by a mile. The whole point of what I've been saying is that he's gone from being a Colossus to a potential colossal liabilty if he does not regain his early awesome form. Off to Oldham/Accrington for the day now - see you at the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Off to Oldham/Accrington for the day now - see you at the match. Yup. This will be debated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted September 5, 2007 Author Share Posted September 5, 2007 In the first half at Accrington Gregan gave a masterclass demonstration of everything I've written about him in this thread, including giving away another needless penalty. He showed better than my words could explain everything that's been wrong with his game for a long time (excluding Burnley apparently). He even whacked one ball out of the stadium when play was stopped! Luckily Trottman refused to become a Chuckle Brother with Gregan and put in a great display throughout the game. I don't know what Shez said at half-time but there was a marked improvement throughout the team in the second half. We started to mark much tighter, win the ball and distribute it much better. We played to Davies's strengths and Wolfy excelled as he grew in confidence. Gregan was much better, although he still had lapses, but he concentrated on the job of playing the football necessary to get the three goals needed. There appeared to be one big lapse when the linesman spotted another Gregan penalty infringement, but the ref chose to ignore it. I hope I've witnessed tonight the second half change in Gregan that will lead to him regaining that form he showed many months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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