dave_ragg1984 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Scott Carson is hardly some untested kid though is he. The decision was wrong tonight, and the manager will undoubtedly pay for that, but its not the managers fault that Carson cocked up like that. Plus, with the other options being Calamity James and Paul Robinson, then it wouldnt have made much of a difference. The manager will go, has to go, but sooner or later people have got to realise that its not all the manager fault. If players cant do the basics (ie, if a goalie cant catch it, defender cant play offside, midfielder cant pass) and these are the best players we have got, then people must surely realise that it isnt all the managers fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 (edited) I'm not really sure which side of the argument you are on to be honest. McClaren has to take the blame for putting Carson in, but at the same time he can't take the blame for the fact that our players aren't technically as good as the majority of nations on the continent regardless of what our media tries to feed us. Im not on any side, im calling a spade a spade!!! Poor Manager - bad team selections, no motivation, poor tatics. Poor Players - Its been Gerrard or Lampard debate when in reality nither of them have done ANYTHING for england in a long time! Poor FA - Grass roots to the Premiership its all wrong! Edited November 22, 2007 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 (edited) Scott Carson is hardly some untested kid though is he. The decision was wrong tonight, and the manager will undoubtedly pay for that, but its not the managers fault that Carson cocked up like that. Plus, with the other options being Calamity James and Paul Robinson, then it wouldnt have made much of a difference. The manager will go, has to go, but sooner or later people have got to realise that its not all the manager fault. If players cant do the basics (ie, if a goalie cant catch it, defender cant play offside, midfielder cant pass) and these are the best players we have got, then people must surely realise that it isnt all the managers fault. Very black and white view! Your working off the line of if you have good players and you dont win its the managers fault. Or if you have poor players and dont win its the players fault. The reality is England have "good" (cough) players not playing well and a manager making all the wrong moves. Its poor back to front! I dont think are players are as good as some people make out. We are not good enough to win a competition but England is more than good enough to qauilify. Both the players and the manager have failed us. Edited November 22, 2007 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hometownclub Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 It is nothing short of a disgrace that we have not qualified from that group. Croatia have won the group and have beaten us home and away and the country has a population of about 4.5 million, unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 */Rant on The thing that riles more than anything last night was the effort. Or lack of. Top class players who can't be bothered to play for their country. If we have no skill, no ability then we need commitment - and we had next to none last night. Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard stood out above all others and should NEVER come anywhere near an England cap again. Wayne Rooney said it all when he said he'd prefer a Chumpions League game to an England game. Get this type of player as far from the England side as possible. They ruin any form of team spirit and it would be better to play Fourth Division players than these. Just a bit of commitment could have made yesterdays game so different, but you just get a feeling half the players were thinking they'd rather be in Barbados than Austria next summer. The FA should all fall on their swords to a man. The whole system in this Country needs changing with the national FA taking charge. Train the PE Teachers (or in the case of my mate who coaches his school team including Hartlepool and Middlesbrough youngsters - History Teachers) to have the ability to coach properly - and have a school in each area which has a proper FA supplied football coach. This school can then be supplied with the cream of the youngsters from surrounding areas. Then from 16 have football colleges. Remove all the youth development from clubs. Do it just like America (American football) with their college system. At the end of their teachings (or earlier if need be) they can be picked up by clubs - who can make a small (in current terms) contribution to the funding (but will mainly come from the FA). If it all goes belly up then at least the rejects would have some form of education (which is just an added bonus). That's the World according to Mark done. /Rant off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 One person who'll be very relieved after last nights cock up is Robinson. McClaren took him out of the spotlight and probably saved him a load more flak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Scott Carson is hardly some untested kid though is he. You're right, he isn't. He spent a whole season picking it out of Charlton's net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 You're right, he isn't. He spent a whole season picking it out of Charlton's net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Very black and white view! Your working off the line of if you have good players and you dont win its the managers fault. Or if you have poor players and dont win its the players fault. The point I was actually trying to make was that it is both the players and the managers fault, but only the manager seems to get the blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 And those who chose that manager get off scott free and get to screw it up all over again. In answer to a question at this morning's press conference, one of the lined up buffons said, "The Premiership's responsibility first and foremost is to the Premiership clubs." So at least what we knew all along is official now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 The point I was actually trying to make was that it is both the players and the managers fault, but only the manager seems to get the blame. That used to be true but I think the players are getting alot of stick this morning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Lampard got man of the match? what for? Cos he scored a penalty? I was panacking incase he was gonna miss! Should have been Beckham on the scoresheet. I was with you to the final bit Ms Banana - Beckham has missed more penalties for England than anyone else in history. He was only allowed to keep taking them because he was captain and the headline boy. Gerrard was utter crap last night though. Anyone else see that moment after about 80 minutes when he actually had the ball (!), ran 5 yards, and just randomly kicked it at an opposition player? Both him and Gerrard like it at club level, where the teams are built around them. Neither has the desire (I think they both have the ability, but that's not enough) to adapt to being just one of 11. I'm a bit suprised to see Joe Cole getting some stick. His creative side let him down, but he worked his arse off all night. He was the only midfielder to track back and harrass the opposition in the first half. He had a bad game but he didn't let his head go down and did what he could. On last night's standards that makes him a star performer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrabanana Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I was with you to the final bit Ms Banana - Beckham has missed more penalties for England than anyone else in history. He was only allowed to keep taking them because he was captain and the headline boy. Gerrard was utter crap last night though. Anyone else see that moment after about 80 minutes when he actually had the ball (!), ran 5 yards, and just randomly kicked it at an opposition player? Both him and Gerrard like it at club level, where the teams are built around them. Neither has the desire (I think they both have the ability, but that's not enough) to adapt to being just one of 11. What I meant was that I have no faith in Frank Lampard at all and that because, in my opinion, Crouch and Beckham were our two best players last night, I would have prefferred to see those them both on the score sheet rather than Crouch and Lampard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 What I meant was that I have no faith in Frank Lampard at all and that because, in my opinion, Crouch and Beckham were our two best players last night, I would have prefferred to see those them both on the score sheet rather than Crouch and Lampard. Ah, got it. I have a scheme for Crouch, I am going to surgically remove his chest and re-attached it to the top of his head. His chest control is awesome, but I swear there are people in Far Eastern syndicates running odds on what way the ball is going to go when it hits his head. You can't fault him for effort though, he looked shagged at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrabanana Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Ah, got it. I have a scheme for Crouch, I am going to surgically remove his chest and re-attached it to the top of his head. His chest control is awesome, but I swear there are people in Far Eastern syndicates running odds on what way the ball is going to go when it hits his head. You can't fault him for effort though, he looked shagged at the end. I miss his robot dance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I miss his robot dance... I bet you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Anthem gaffe 'helped Croatia' The British singer who sang the Croatian anthem before last night's match accidentally sang 'My penis is a mountain'. Tony Henry was trying to sing the national anthem in Croatian, but reportedly got the words wrong. Fans say the mispronounciation helped the players relax before the game at Wembley where Croatia beat England 3-2. The national anthem is written in old style Croatian, and there can be slightly different interpretations in English because it is a very lyrical language. The line in which Henry slipped up should have been "mila kuda si planina" (You know my dear how we love your mountains). But what he actually sang was "mila kura si planina" which means "Dear Penis, you are a Mountain" or "My Dear, my penis is a mountain". Croat players like Manchester City's Vedran Corluka and Arsenal target Luka Modric started looking at each other and grinning when they realised what he was singing. Croat fan websites have been calling for Henry to be given a medal of honour for helping the players relax, they also want him made an official team mascot for the tournament. Mate Prlic, publisher of the top Croatian footballing Torcida Magazine said: "It would be great if Tony Henry could join the Croatian team and fans at the European Championship in Austria and Switzerland. "He obviously relaxed the Croatian players before the match at Wembley and if that's a winning combination why not invite him to join the team at Euro 2008 to keep the winning streak going." Awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davegtt Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 All the latest Tom Toms have been recalled, apparently England is nowhere to be found in Europe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky_Latic Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 So England got run ragged all night and McClaren gets sacked. THANK F***. I've been saying for weeks he should go whether we qualify or not. I was saying it even louder at half time. He's not an International Manager. Simple as and that's been obvious since he took over. Watching him stood under an umbrella drinking endless amounts of drinks. *that's all he seemed to do*. Absolutely no passion in him whatsoever. It said it all in his interview yesterday when he was talking about being relieved of his position and he had a smile on his face. At 2-2 you knew Croatia would score again. We sat back thinking it'd be good enough. They cut us to peices far too easy. Suprised just how good the Croatians were. They could have well had 6. Sheer lack of motivation. No wonder there was so many shoddy performances all the way through the team. Who the hell would want to play for that turnip who was in charge. Cue this home nations tournament in the summer just to gloss over what has been an absolute shambles. It's not like we had Scotland's group to contend with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davegtt Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Were not having an home nations tournament either btw, Theyre having a Celts Tournament, basically all the home nations are involved apart from England Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Be grateful. Could you handle finishing second bottom above Wales? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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