Scapegoat

My memories of John Sheridan...

Single handedly (seemingly) keeping us up in some of the really dark years under Ritchie - I seem to recall at Wigan away at the old Springfield Park he took a high ball out of the skies on his back/neck and rolled it to the ground before paying off a pass.

With no really functioning knees - his ability to read a game and make a killer pass were streets ahead of almost anyone else in League One.

As a manager took over after the tedious Mr Moore IIRC and had us playing some truly wonderful football - after struggling to see the team string more than 4 passes together the previous season, under Sheridan we started to look like a team.

At the time not realising, but Sheridans top half and Play-off seasons would be the best we would see for a decade - and it was the last time we genuinely competed.  He managed a very respectable 40% win ratio.

Helping us upset Everton in the FA Cup at Goodison and be THE cup upset of the 3rd Round.

The back to back Shezurections - to do it once is impressive, but twice is unbelievable.  On both seasons he seemingly took a quick look at the team, added a couple of loans that nobody was impressed with when they were announced, and transformed the results.  A personal highlight will always be the Chesterfield away game - immense!  The performances were never that great, and we ground on results on a crappy pitch - but the turnaround was immense.

On the flip side his reputation as a drinker let to concerns over his man management style, finally culminating with the infamous dogs incident.  Also, I know that some liked them, but always felt he came across poorly in interviews and press conferences - also most disinterested, lacking eloquence, and at times downright miserable.  Very old school perhaps.  The level of abuse he gave out to the officials whilst at Notts County was not great.

Finally, I think this season just wasn’t working out but I wish him well wherever he goes next.

7 hours ago, b0ndl1ne said:

Because I watched every minute of every game before they joined and we were horribly bad. People can’t forget how poor we were against Oxford, Walsall etc. We were poor because we had inferior players

We were poor.  Very poor.  But some of those poor players are now looking very good.

Condifence is a huge aspect of performance in sport, particularly with players of average ability.

Under Sheridan in the 2 escapes, yes he brought in a few loans, but he also got players that looked off the pace and were (at the time) roughly lambasted by fans back to form.  Wilson, Green etc.  They suddenly start wanting the ball, start having the confidence to make one and two touch passes, starting gambling and running into space.

Its the same this season under Wellens.  Players that were not performing under Sheridan are now looking like different people.

Of course other players have come in to the team in these circumstances (Palmer and Main; Holloway and O’Neill; Placide etc).  But many others are now just playing better and with condifence.

For me Wellens has to stay part of the set-up.  That is either give him the job, or keep him as a number 2 under a manager that he will respect and think he can learn from.

9 minutes ago, yarddog73 said:

You think Shez has been paid off 

Signed a 2 year contract, got about 10% of the way into it and then left by “mutual consent” then I’d guess he was paid off.

In my experience from a work environment when someone leaves to “pursue new opportunities” (the corporate term for “mutual consent”) then there is a pay-off.

In these circumstances the compromise agreement will be less than the full contract / what they might be entitled to from a severance  - but it will still be sizeable and I’d guess would impact on cash flow of a club/business on the line like we are.

Interested in why you think he didn’t?

Difficult but sadly familiar situation.

Its happened a few times over the last few seasons, normally after a period where income has been missing (postponed games etc), and perhaps this time the cost of paying off JS has upset the cash flow?

Wonder how common it is in lower league football?  But my sympathies are with any members of staff impacted - not many people are in the position they could miss a months pay and not take a hit.

10 hours ago, HarryBosch said:

Wellens for me but I'd be happy enough with Correa.

 

I don't think Seedorf is really on the cards although I'd be fine, more than fine, with it if he came.

 

I'd still rather have Wellens though and I think SC/AL or whoever would be making a mistake to not see to what extent he can build on his start...

If the wheels fall off sharpish they can still replace him.

You'd normally argue we can't sign any players anyway until January but we seem to be getting round that of late

 

I don't fancy Stubbs one iota.

 

Billy Davies could be very good if he's got his head straight.

 

Albeit it's only Ibby who's mentioned Dowie but that ship sailed long ago for me. He's been out of the game too long.  

Saved me typing - Hits the nail on the head for me.

If not RW, then hope he stays on under new manager and then potentially takes over when they move on ala Dowie and Wadsworth

8 hours ago, leeslover said:

Could well have been. I don't doubt that other things were as well.

A colleague at work is a big Wednesday fan and pretty well connected at the club and with some of their ex-players.

The club had a big 150 anniversary event recently - about a week before Shez left.

As part of the event the dignitaries got free drinks vouchers, but not everyone was drinking.  Shez spent the event hoovering up as many "free" drinks he could and was absolutely smashed from fairly early on. My contact spoke to him earlier in the night and he said he was feeling pressure of Oldham and the fact that the results were so bad at the moment he was on the verge of losing his job - but he didn't mention anything about issues behind the scenes.

Given that the same fella sat next to Shez at Wembley (also when he was a few sheets to the wind) after he left to go Notts Cointy and he was forthcoming about Oldham and lack of funds and SC not being supportive enough - it seems that he does have enough of an ear that he gets information.

Later on at the 150 year event - they started pulling ex-managers and players up on stage with some old game footage to talk about some of the clubs achievements.  This included Shez talking about scoring the only goal in the League Cup final in the early 1990s....unfortunately by that stage he could barley stand nevermind speak, and there was an embarrassing silence as John seemed to ignore questions and just stand there.

Great player and by our standards a successful manager - but not sure that he is best suited to football managements and potentially has some personal issues that he needs to resolve.

Since relegation from the PL our glimpses of anything other than attritional relegation fights are extremely limited.

Rare examples often have come at the start of a new managers reign:

Sherdian first time round saw us play some great football;

LJ got us playing wonderful passing football;

And on 2 games evidently RW is doing the same.

Had another look at the latest odds on The Sack Race site:

Wellens 1/1 - would be happy with him based on interviews and results, at least a short term contract until the end of the season that if if doesn't work then both parties move on.

Seedorf 3/1 - again would be happy, but think now that this is a dead story with enough people now denying it.

Correa 6/1 - again Ok with this.  Never had a "foreign" coach and record is decent.  Might not be bad odds either.

Stubbs 6/1 - leaves me completely cold.  Think this is the worst of the bookies favourites. No, no, and thrice, no for me.

Giggs 16/1 - tough one.  A world class player, and a big name that would get respect etc and boost the coverage of the club but a heart a red? We learnt to love ex-City Royle didn't we?

Davies 20/1 - another that leaves me cold.  OK past record but seems a bit tame.

A whole host on 25/1 that only a couple I'd be happy with:

Wilson - could be put in the same hat as Stubbs etc but have always liked the style of football Danny's teams play.

Scholes - read Giggs but added advantage of "maybe" being Latics fan.

Watched the game on iFollow and it was the best performance of the season, and perhaps for the last few seasons.

But no, it wasn't in my opinion up to the standard of the halcyon days under Royle where we took on teams far higher up the league and out classed them.

For many that have only ever seen the dross that we have endured for numerous seasons stuck in this division - their barometer of good is somewhat different to those that saw the 1989-1992 era when we competed with the very best.

Wonder if we might see a repeat of the last time we had money owners.

Quietly impressed by an inexperienced chap, but feel that they want an old hand for experience.

Appoint more experienced guy but with inexperienced fella alongside - then in a year move one out and let the other step up.

Dowie = Wellens

Wadsworth = Pablo

Have a look but made a pretty indefensible response to a tweet from an oafc account reminding him of his spitting incident in 1992.

Trying to remember the details of the game - we lost 0-1 and I think we thought he should have had a red card but wasn't given and then got dogs abuse and when subbed got into a situation with a Latics fan.

Fan spat at him, Wright spat back and in the subsequent fracas he pushed a police officer.

Anyone remember more?  He got an FA fine for £1,500 for it.

Good interview on iFollow from RW, but there was a better one played on 5Live around 5:45 when doing the round up of League One.

The presenters said something like I'm. Or am Oldham fan, but I'd want him to get the job after an interview like that.  Passionate and enthusing.

Check it out on iPlayer.

Is there a way to have the commentary and the video at the same time?

Pompey 3 - 2 Latics (HT 1-1)

Davies

17198

23 minutes ago, singe said:

I don't think you saw the

I'm very happy to give it to him. Hell, as a player unquestined, I'd take him as player manager.

But let's not kid ourselves. Be objective, he is a risk. He's only managed 35 games including the China ones, which should hardly count. Only 22 for Milan with Kaka in the side. We haven't got a Kaka.

But bring it on I say

No but we have a lot of players that are cack.

The media coverage (which is basically base upon the tweets and comments on here) has changed the odds.

I don't doubt that he is interested - intelligent and wants to get into football management on a longer term basis, and the likely investment makes us an attractive proposition.

However, I think it's a long way from a deal.  Too many times in the past we have seen good names interested and ended up on Wikipedia trying to find out who the new gaffer is.

Hope I am wrong - think it would be great.

In terms of SC showing him the facilities - isn't that Gym a commercial business just renting space or is it also where our players go?

Maybe as part of the employee benefits package you get a 10% discount on membership - cannot see how CS can turn us down now.

1 hour ago, jorvik_latic said:

 

http://www.futhead.com/18/clubs/oldham-athletic/

Dont pretend to understand the details but:

If PAC means pace - how the hell has Holloway got a higher score than Davies?

Zero in form players - is have thought Davies record would be worthy of that badge.

Just now, youngen said:

 

An Ajax supporting friend tells me if he gets the job, then Oldham will end up featuring weekly in the Dutch sports news with updates on how he is doing. International fan base. I knew Corney knows what he is doing. Fuck China, noone has breached the Dutch market yet 

Why go for a market of 1.6 billion when you can tap into a market of 17 million.

Shrewd business SC ?

Apart from referred to as "Clarence Seerdorf's Oldham Athletic" in EVERY bit of media coverage, and the risk that he is an unproven manager with no experience of the English game - I see no problems.

Seriously - whilst it may not work, all management appointments are a gamble, and I think it will make the season interesting.  Also "experience" of English football is often over-rated - it's a simple game when all

said and done and plenty of managers have come to England and succeeded.  Especially when they have the resources to make it a bit easier - which we have to presume we will if he comes?

19 minutes ago, pukka said:

 

Cant comment on his china stint, but won 11 of 19 with Milan... not that bad a record. They were going backwards when he got the job abd he moved them on.

 

Football should be about excitement. If a 4 time Champs league winner manging Oldham Athletic doesn't excite then what does?

I am all for it - just for clarity.

You would also have to imagine that Clarence and money would make January transfer window more interesting.

1 minute ago, kowenicki said:

 

Seedorf and Wellens as his assistant. One to inspire, one to instruct. 

 

Simple. 

I did think that, but then in essence you have got 2 inexperienced people involved.  Surely you want an old hand as well?

Well well well.

Clarence Seedorf is a massive name to be linked to a League One job, never mind us.

However trying to be sensible for a moment, he has no real management experience (and what he has is not successful), he has never played in England (i think), and being a great player has never really been a sign that you will be a great (or even half decent) manager.

You could argue that some of the other names on a practical point of view are better prospects.  Not sure what badges he has got etc.

But in the end you'd have to say sod it - and give him a go wouldn't you?

That said, Wellens comes across well, and if we didn't have 'investment' then I'd give him another game or two and then review.  He picks up 5-7 points out of the next 3 and you'd have to say he's done enough?

Family friend is an Aston Villa supporter and has a decent collection of football programmes etc (mainly Villa, but some England and general finals) that they want to get rid of.

Old chap, doesn't know what they are worth - but some are signed, and from European finals etc.

Any advice on where best to get a fair price for them?

Didn't go last night - but another game where we concede 2 goals would indicate that we got a bit of luck rather than a fundamental change in the team?

That said, I am not against Wellens.  Basically finding a good manager is hard - it's why so many get sacked every season.  Newbie, old hand, all the same really - it's a gamble.

Interestingly we seemed to be linked to more candidates that are actually in a job than normal - which would indicate paying compensation and therefore further evidence of investment?