basilrobbie

4 minutes ago, Lee Sinnott said:

I probably wouldn't go to the extreme Woody did above, but it always absolutely blows my mind that you spend an hour a week listening to a podcast about Oldham...

I'm interested in institutional failure and how it is addressed. I made a successful career out of that and developing performance management frameworks.

And then there is the combination of Matt "Mellifluous" Dean, Halliwell The Erudite and ...... The Other One. How can anyone stay away?

Tough call this one.

Very few people know what managers are like in the workplace, so we look for proxies to give us a clue.

On the downside, he doesn't come over very well on social media, and many of you think he is limited tactically. 

On the upside, the club clearly bought into his plan when he was appointed and are prepared to back him financially.

I think he's been a bit unlucky in that he had had two poor spells bookending a period in the middle when the club was right at the top of the form table. The end of season came at a bad time for him.

He's had barely a year, fifty games and the club is largely where it was when he took over. My club are four years into a new regime and also more or less were we started. It's not uncommon.

I think it is a very hard decision to make when there are factors that could pull you either way. And I would imagine that the club's senior folk are mindful of the fact that they can't keep swapping managers and handling the fall out that it brings. 

10 hours ago, Shrek said:

 

Wittering on with unsubstantiated opinions on what fans of a club he doesn't support expect is just odd. Not interested in any historical aspects.

When we were in trouble we were always very conscious of how few people we were able to turn to for support. The Trust that I am part of swore that we would never in the future watch the fans of another club struggle if we were able to do anything to help.

So that is why we try to look out for the fans of clubs who are having a hard time, even if we can only offer moral support. I don't think that is "odd" at all.

41 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Sorry Baz, but this is absolute nonsense. 
 

We are without question one of two biggest sides in this division, we have a top two gate, we have a top two budget. We’re signing players from two divisions above on relatively big money. The owners have invested millions on and off the pitch, with big plans to invest more. No one does that and thinks, ‘yeah but we’ll still really struggle because the others have all played together for a while’.  (1)
 

Laughable Baz. Imagine if somebody said that to your fanbase when you got relegated to league two and come back to me. You are a steady league one club in stature and history, and your lot wouldn’t just sit in league two hoping. .  . My god- they’re giving your chairman pelters because they’re deluded enough to think they’re a championship club!  (2)

 

I bet our owners,  have putting circa 20 million into a division 5 club; would delighted to acknowledge that really- there’s no point because we were crap anyway. (3)

 

Lastly, there will come a time my friend- when we’re back at Bloomfield Road, and I will think of you and have a wry smile on my face when ‘a crap league one’ side walks away with 3 points.  (4)
 

 

 

 

(1) Gatse, budgets ad wages don't win football matches. Players do. Well motivated, well coached players.

(2) They are giving him pelters, and in large part they are being thoroughly disingenuous. They know we were a small club in the Championship, and they know that the majority of the Division operates the economics of the madhouse. But it doesn't stop some people having unrealistic expectations - and continually being disappointed.

(3) Again, we have had this owner for four years, he has poured getting on for £20m in and we are back where we started. It happens, because people don't always make good decisions and money doesn't always mitigate the impact when you make a mistake.

(4) I'll have a wry smile on my face too, not for the first time.

Football offers no guarantees. Spending big doesn't always translate into success. Being a big fish in a small pond might actually make you more likely to drown. And starting life in a hugely competitive environment assuming success will come your way quickly is a fast track to disappointment. Why do that to yourself?

29 minutes ago, PeteG said:

This statement I keep hearing about it being the hardest league in the pyramid to get out of and battled hardened clubs who have been here a long time is the biggest load of bollocks i've ever heard. The league is made up of shite football teams us included. The standard is woeful. Your not telling me if you dropped a team out of league 1 into the national league now, they wouldn't absolute piss it? Which makes it nonesense. So based on your assumption it's the toughest league in the world to get out of, we should just accept our lot and continue watching the worst football i've ever seen us produce in over 40 years of watching us?

What I'm saying is that 2 up out of 24 (which is what is the case in the NL) is as tough as it gets. And you are starting from a position of disadvantage as compared with some of your competitors - in my opinion. 

If it was easy then Chesterfield would be long gone and Wrexham, Nots County, Stockport and a host of others wouldn't have found it so tough to succeed. You may be right about the overall standard, but I suspect that it probably isn't a lot different from L2, except that there are a lot of upwardly mobile clubs who reach it as a de facto ceiling and then make it a highly competitive environment. Again, an opinion. 

Finally, I didn't say accept your lot. I suggested that being realistic in your expectations would take a lot of heat out of a fraught environment. But it's your environment, not mine, and I just comment as an outsider who would like to see you do well.

Interesting listen, as always.

I don't watch you, so can't judge that side of things. But I do think the fanbase is becoming a prisoner of its own expectations. The league you are in is possibly the hardest in the entire pyramid to get out of at the right end. You start a fair bit behind some battle-hardened clubs who've been there or thereabouts regularly and not succeeded. So you need to stop expecting success I feel, and start hoping for it.

"But we are Oldham", I hear some of you say. To which the answer is - "so what"? Yes, you were a League club of many years standing. But you were a crap League club for a lot of the later years, and nobody in this Division is going to be intimidated by you. What will get you out of it is hard work, ingenuity and unity. Only you know how you are doing on all three, or whether Unsworth is the right man. He's had fifty games now, and I'd imagine over the next couple of months the Board will reach conclusions about him one way or another.

One last thing - my club has won the play offs six times, and in practically every one of those winning years we started extremely slowly and then accelerated. It is too early to panic, and as fans you have a big say in whether the next managerial appointment is properly planned and considered, or rushed into in a panic.

17 hours ago, deyres42 said:

The sands of time must be very close to running dry.

Isn't sand pretty dry to begin with? 

1 hour ago, BPAS said:

Interesting to see the Blackpool owner feeling the need to remind people where they've come from here: https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/sport/football/blackpool-fc-seasiders-owner-simon-sadler-releases-statement-reiterating-his-commitment-to-the-club-following-recent-criticism-4278939

 

Maybe @basilrobbie might light to elaborate on why/how it's got to this?

As always, it is a combination of things :

• some fans did not take relegation well, especially the manner of it
• some fans are very sensitive about the club's attempts to improve crowd behaviour (we are on the FA's watch list). They think they are being targeted
• some of our fans seem to have a huge sense of entitlement - we shouldn't be in L1, apparently
• some fans know the club monitor social media, and play up to it

It's a small minority who are very, very vocal. It would seem that the owner decided to counter it with a few observations (and facts) of his own.

Another good listen.

I don't watch you, so am hardly in a place to assess where you are. But I can't help noticing that five of your six opponents so far are clubs I thought would be top half this season. Admittedly one of them is Southend, but still....

If it's any consolation, your fan base is not really all that different from any other, and these days the world is full of people who seem not to be able to control their emotions. There are some conspiracy theorists among my club's support who are actively trying to undermine the owner. When you consider what we had to do to get him, it beggars belief, but that is human nature for you.

Matt's point at the end was a good one. If you are this angry six games in, you leave yourself literally nowhere to go. It's just not a healthy way to think or behave.

1 hour ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

Just a bit of frustration coming out

Seems everyone who plays under Unsworth has some of that in em now

You might not like the manager, but that really is plumbing the depths.

On 8/23/2023 at 4:40 PM, Monty Burns said:

daft if theyre gettin taken over

Rules are rules though. They have failed to meet their obligations to HMRC (multiple times), paid staff late (or not at all) multiple times, failed to publish accounts until threatened with expulsion, and generally played fast and loose with a regulatory framework that their competitors more or less abide by. 

If you think that should be swept under the carpet because there MIGHT be a takeover, then I think you are both wrong (in principle) and putting inordinate faith in a man who does not deserve it, to be honest. 

I feel for their fans, who have had a rotten time of it. But you have to stamp down hard on this kind of ownership. The fact that this HASN'T been happening is a significant part of why the game is such a whited sepulchre.

Interesting listen. I'm sure if he had his time again Matt would do it a bit differently. But that doesn't mean he's wrong.

I think the world is full of people who feel that life owes them something and the way they "support" their football club reflects that - wild mood swings, black and white, triumph and disaster, all in the same week. Asking them to be measured and take a long term view is about as futile as asking them to fart on  Saturn. 

Nevertheless you can have standards and you can try not to trash something you've worked hard for, and when he sees people who seem not to believe that I think that is where Matt gets frustrated. Especially as he was one of the people doing the heavy lifting throughout that period.

Fans of other clubs are no different. Coventry warned us about it, and yet we have just the same element at our club, people who will brook nothing short of absolute success and scream blue murder until they get it. It's part of the price you pay for going through a period when your fan base gets radicalised, or politicised, or both. Which is why, for example, reading this thread, even an outsider like me can spot the two or three posters who have  axes to grind.

3 minutes ago, League one forever said:

We’re all delighted for you. 
 

We really are. 
 

 

 

 

And you are more than gracious. Anyway, this Pod......

1 hour ago, nzlatic said:

You've played 26 play off games??? 

We've been in them nine times. Eight finals, of which we have won six (including  one penally shoot out) and lost two (also including a penalty shoot out).

14 minutes ago, nzlatic said:

Thanks heaps for this post, here we all are depressed after our terrible start and you go bringing up 2006/07! 

I enjoyed it. 

On the second leg of that semi, I travelled up the night before because it was an earlyish kick off. I got the bus into town. But I had to get off to be sick, I was that nervous.  A feat I then repeated on the way to the City Ground for our play-off semi clincher in 2010.  

Our record in play off games is sensational, really. Counting drawn finals that went to penalties, our record is P 26, W 18, D5, L 3.  On the downside, we haven't won promotion automatically since 1985 (without actually playing on the night in question), and haven't clinched promotion at home since the 1920s. 

I've always thought this a very good Podcast, but that was one of the best you've done in a while, I thought. Outstanding.

I've only seen 15 minutes of highlights of the game from the home end, but I thought you probably got ambushed on Saturday by a club and a City that were just grateful to be able to be there. That said, you looked very much on your heels at the beginning, and it kind of set the tone by the look of it.

This issue of slow starts interests me, in the context of "give him ten games". In our promotion season of 06/07, we lost game 11 at Carlisle. We actually played pretty well, lost 2-0,  and at the end of the game there were fights in the away end between those who were encouraged and those who couldn't see past 8 points from 11 games and 23rd place. We then took 75 from the next 35, finished the season with ten wins in a row and won the play-offs.

I remember in our promotion season of 69/70 we lost 6-1 at QPR in August. When we won our second play-off final we managed to lose 7-0 at Barnet, who got relegated that season. It happens. 

The odds are stacked against you going up. Two places is very cruel, especially when about 14/16 clubs can make a case for taking one of them. You could do it, but I think Chesterfield, Woking, Barnet, Boreham, Bromley, York and Gateshead all feel like better bets - at the moment. The only thing I will predict is that there won't be a runaway winner this time, and I think a points total in the high 80's will win it. Feel free to mock in May, as they (I)say.

Final point : that was top quizzing by Paul. Very impressive.

On 8/5/2023 at 6:15 PM, LightDN123 said:

 

Could have found a spot in the ground on his own. Didn’t have to be with the players/coaches/fans. 

You mean on his own in a spot where he couldn't communicate with or influence anyone? There is a flaw in that reasoning, I'm sure......

I think they are struggling to fill the bench on Saturday, except with kids.

An interesting listen, as always.

I thought Matt was a bit hard on Southend fans. Critical mass is gained at different speeds in cases such as these, and while they might have taken a while to get going I think they are largely united now. The problem they have is that their predicament has so many moving parts, and seeing a way through it is quite difficult. The activists among them are trying as hard as you would expect.

The National League are in a bit of a bind, I feel. They deserve credit for wanting to give the club every chance to survive. They also deserve some brickbats for letting this drag on, and you can include the EFL in that too. This is an owner who until recently went about four years without filing proper accounts, and someone who has had close to twenty (I think) winding up orders from HMRC.  Given the club slid through two divisions in successive seasons, alarm bells should have rung louder, and sooner. 

My worry is that they are not gong to be especially competitive, at least for a while and until the takeover issue is resolved. Until they pay the HMRC what they owe they remain under embargo, and as far as I know are struggling to fill the 16 team squad they are allowed. They may have a reasonable first XI on Saturday - but not much else. 

I've no idea how well you will do - I think top seven, but with no expectation that you will prevail. I'd go for a top seven of Chesterfield, York, Woking, Oldham, Boreham Wood, Bromley and Gateshead as a wild card. Bottom four Kidderminster, Oxford, Dorking and Aldershot. Feel free to mock in May.

23 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

Can't help feeling that a takeover will go through on the 23rd of August at 11:59pm. It seems this going to be dragged out for the maximum period of time.

 

I do wonder in instances like this if the The FA/EFL/NL could effectively step in and seize the club from the owner at time like this, be temporary owner for a period of say no more than 3 months then effectively auction the club off. It would just stop bad owners from dragging out the process. Although I'm not sure of the legalities of stuff like this and how it would fit into UK corporate law.

The only body that could do this would be the High Court, because what you are describing there is essentially the role of a Receiver. It's effectively what happened at Blackpool after Oyston failed to meet the schedule of payments stipulated by the Court.

The leverage that the NL have is to chuck Southend out of the league, or penalise them with a heavy fine (unlikely, as they won't pay it) or a points deduction. 

If we had an independent regulator this could be addressed via licensing conditions. But we haven't.

We played there four years ago come August - in League 1. We won in a canter, they went down, then down again into the NL and have had two years there since. 

Word is that they are likely to lose a lot of players if this is not resolved , and as Ritchie says, that is the least of their problems. Even if they get adjourned tomorrow, the possibility is that the NL may throw them out. And the transfer embargo continues. 

7 hours ago, BP1960 said:

 How have the EFL allowed it to get to that, don't they check clubs finances annually?

I can only surmise, but they have stayed within P&S rules since they came Into the league, just about. And he has made a lot of loans / gifts  to keep them as competitive as possible. As long as those loans weren't called  in**, the problem was theoretical rather than real. But now the chickens are going to come home to roost.

** there are plenty of other clubs like this. Brighton, for example, "owe" Tony Bloom around £400m.

9 minutes ago, League one forever said:

Ha ha. Not me, no.

We've signed Norburn from Posh. That is a noteworthy signing. Pennington, who was Player of the Year at Shrewsbury. A reserve goalie, a young lad who I don't know much about, a young kid from Ireland for the Development Squad. OK so far, but quite. lot more to come I feel, as a lot have been allowed to leave. 

10 hours ago, rudemedic said:

Saw something on twitter that said he'd done 6 months for conspiracy to steal prior to getting involved with Fleetwood.

 

 

Might explain the sentence a bit too.

 

While Fleetwood were non-league when he took over, and the length of sentence means Pilley didn't have to declare it. It is a bit worrying that he passed the fit & proper persons test with a conviction like that on his record.

 

I'd imagine he'd now be barred for life from holding a company director post.

 

He's banned for thirteen years as a company director generally. And with the recent changes to the O&DT he will never be able to be involved with a football club again. And you were right about his earlier conviction  - (conspiracy to steal from the Post Office, I believe) - it is "spent" because it was less than six months. 

I think he may have slipped through the EFL radar because the O&DT wasn't well established then, but they have had plenty of time to watch him create a completely unsustainable entity that must be at real risk now.

What happens now is anyone's guess. The club has around £24m of debt (almost all owed to AP), and loses over £50k per week. It doesn't own either the ground or the training ground. His money is now turned off and his assets may be subject to a Proceeds of Crime Order. 

Bizarrely, the club is maintaining a position that they carry on business as normal. Even more bizarrely, a lot of their fans seem to believe it. It's a mess, and given I grew up there and watched them more times than I care to remember when I was a kid, it's really sad too.