Midsblue

I guess we all must be bullies for asking a genuine question as to why the minutes are taking so long to issue.  I’ll park it there but that accusation is not only laughable but divisive.

Anyway ..... Whilst these minutes are approved, the debacle rumbles on further....

Club states PW left due to personal reasons.  PW states he’s left because his direction differs to that of the owners.  Knowing PW is an OAFC fan and would only want the best for our club, this does again emphasise that the Clown’s plan will highly likely be different to 95% of the fans.  It also demonstrates that the Clown is fucking lying again.

If it’s going to take a further 4 days - sorry 2 working days - to produce, I hope they’re worth it and the Trust’s optimism is justified.  I’m afraid at moment every day brings even more concern from the mouth or actions of this fuckwit currently owning our club.  I emphasise currently because I hope he fucks off soon.... sad that I’m now preferring administration with him gone than the slow decline we’re experiencing with little or no reassurance from the owner.

1 minute ago, Andy b said:

You are being unrealistic and demands to act quicker won’t be well received I am afraid. We won’t be bullied into doing things that we are not comfortable with or moving at a pace which is unreasonable. In fact, it’s likely to have the opposite effect. 

 

Fans will have to live with that. 

 

 

Bullied?  FFS.  It’s just an observation.  

53 minutes ago, Andy b said:

You posted on a Wednesday complaining about the absence of minutes from a meeting which happened 2 working days ago. 

 

Dont know what line of work you are in but minutes from my meetings aren’t typically produced, signed off and issued in that timeframe.

Depends upon the sensitivity of those minutes and gauging the audience willing to read those minutes.  This wasn’t a regular, standard review but a meeting that’s been chased for months.

This isn’t a criticism of Darren because he’s taken on a role that the majority of us fans wouldn’t want.  I just ‘thought’ that as we’ve waited so long for this meeting then the minutes would have been issued sooner.

Onto your second paragraph -

Wasn’t it more than just one Trust member present - therefore content can be agreed and signed off pretty quickly?

The Trust role operates outside of working hours and not typical 9-5 so what’s working days got to do with it?  Yes it’s unpaid but I do unpaid work too alongside my job and often produce stuff over weekends etc to compensate if I know the content is in demand.  I guess we all operate differently - not a good nor a bad thing.

1 hour ago, Andy b said:

Thumb pressed firmly down, I assure you. We’ve met and our presence has been felt. That will remain the case. That’s the start but it’s only that.

 

The owner knows our stance and expectations. We will monitor his next steps against those expectations

and follow up. There is still no substance or detail behind his aspirations and so we will keep a watching brief on that. We are really not in a position to make wild demands however. 

 

Its a process folks. You won’t get the earth shattering news many want overnight. I hesitate to say be patient but the trust is not the principal owner of the club, is not the decision maker and is not in control of the resources needed to make the changes everyone wants to see. 

 

I’m admittedly impatient to read these minutes and still question why they cannot be released sooner, which implies that they need Mr Lemsagam’s clearance and this further implies censorship.  Hopefully I’m wrong on this.

However, some of the accusations levelled at the Trust members tonight and what was or wasn’t discussed at this meeting is downright insulting.  We’re all fans here and we all want the same result - a successful football club with a long-term future.   

I do though, have to challenge the last paragraph of Andy B’s post above.  We are very much in control of the resources - if we boycott ST purchases, shirt purchases and any other form of income then we can influence our future.  Some may say this is the wrong approach but I fear that the days of mediation are behind us and regardless of our requests face-to-face, they will be ignored or met with lip service.  Furthermore; what is the latest on the fan-led purchase of the ground?  Surely this has a much larger influence on matters?

Take the retained list issued today.  Did it have to be released this week or next and before we’ve appointed a new manager?  This obviously indicates that Mr Lemsagam will be responsible for player recruitment regardless of who comes in.  Releasing Clarke without the decency of a contract negotiation is a major own goal.  This is a player who was ever present this season and scored 3 goals - 2 more than Benteke who’s receiving a contract extension.  Surely this should be the new managers decision but I fear that their appointment will not happen until deep into the transfer window and not until Lemsagam has blown most of the budget in his players.

Im still trusting the Trust to improve our position and influence the future direction of the club but again I question why can the minutes be issued sooner and what is causing the Trust optimism following this meeting?  Losing PW and dictating who stays and goes before a manager is appointed doesn’t fill me with much optimism.

Ive tried to remain civil in this post by referring to our owner as Mr Lemsagam.  However, I’m certain this will not last long as I anticipate yet another act of contempt to surface in the coming days.

If only the fans stuck to a blanket boycott.  However, a fair number opt to remain oblivious to it all and blindly buy STs regardless.

The Clown would then realise that he needs to commit or declare that he’s potless and place the club up for sale.

Im anticipating a summer lacking any ambition regarding acquisitions, a season of struggle and battling our league status.  Would you buy a ST on the basis of that?  I’m definitely not.  

Appreciate it’s a Catch 22 and he needs ticket money from us to fund the team but you trust him to deliver or waste the money on his own agenda....whatever that may be

10 minutes ago, daniel said:

20/1 on Skybet

That’ll be 1/33 come tomorrow once Paul’s betted £50 on himself 

1 minute ago, mcfluff1985 said:

In no way a defence of the owner but you can't demand these things.

 

1. Massively out of our budget unless it's someone who has failed way more than succeeded

 

2. Our income means this probably won't be possible

 

You either want a stable club running within it's means or risk throwing more than we can afford at something that is in no way guaranteed, risking the future more than it already is having him in charge.

 

Not many examples of teams with tiny budgets succeeding. Very much in the minority.

 

He needs to start making decisions that are sensible and the fans can get on board with, like offering Clarke another year, while (hate to say it) slowly slowly over a year or so working on bringing the fans back to increase the budget

 

 

Theres managers out there and if our owner wasn’t interfering, disruptive and irrational but the exact opposite then guarantee 1 could easily be achieved within our budget.

Point 2 is heavily reliant on the owner.  If he came out tomorrow and sold his plan to the fans, engaged with us and demonstrated his unconditional support to the manager, fans would buy STs enabling the achievement of Point 2.  That’s the realistic guarantee ticked ie sustainable.  Ambition is not hindering the managers objective by dictating acquisition of “his” players.  If we’re paying £3k or £4k PW then we could easily secure decent domestic players.  Had he not fucked up Scholes appointment then we could have maximised his connections on loans.  

Its achievable but not now - the club is too toxic with him still here.  I’m afraid he needs to go.

6 hours ago, LaticMark said:

This one?

Those were the days.  I loved that shirt.  Remember the little catalogue of top league football shirts and we was in there with that shirt.  still got it in the loft somewhere

5 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Everything suggests the taps have been turned off and won't be getting turned back on.

Hence time to force him out.  

If we had an owner with limited funds and they were engaged with the fans and synergising manager, players and everyone at the club to maximise that limited fund then they’d get my support.

At moment this Clown is wrecking everything, which is exaggerating the limitation in funds because the infrastructure is on its knees.

7 minutes ago, deyres42 said:

Wouldn't want to see the fella bankrupt himself in some vain pursuit.

Im not expecting him to bankrupt himself but instil confidence back into the club and deliver a realistic budget or even use his ‘contacts’ to deliver additional investment.

Do we know what his worth is and what he’s invested thus far?  

2 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

How in God's name can that be guaranteed???  Although Owen Coyle would fit the description!!

Easy.  I’m not expecting Mourinho.  I’m expecting someone we know, someone who’s been successful and someone who can demonstrate that this Clown is not only ambitious.  It won’t guarantee success but we rebuild some positivity into this club.

Just a managerial appointment where the fans just don’t think WTF or who?

It’ll never happen though.

Surely in light of PW’s departure tonight, the Trust needs to clarify what was discussed with this Clown and what their position is now.

Fuck trying to mediate.  The Clown is a cancer and will destroy this club.

Only way to salvage this is to deliver the following guarantees -

1. PW will be replaced with an experienced manager with a successful managerial record at this level or above

2. The club will have a realistic and ambitious playing budget to deliver promotion back to League One

If he cannot guarantee both of these then we MUST boycott the club.   Not only refuse to purchase STs but demand refunds.  This Trust snippet implied the Clown is to restructure the club’s finances but the latest rumours strongly suggest this means L2 mid-table at best but more realistically L2 survival.  What’s the point of this Clown buying us if he’s not to progress the club.

Smoke this fucker out.

4 minutes ago, BP1960 said:

No club identity again, just another ordinary kit like many others.

They know fans will buy them though out of loyalty to the club.

 

I think that loyalty will be seriously tested this close season.....

Proof will be in the home gate attendance of next season.

I’ll reserve my judgement until the full - and I hope it’s full - account of this meeting is released.

However, I’m afraid this holding statement, in my opinion, is underwhelming to say the least and raising more questions than answers.  Hopefully the account does answer the original questions from the letter.

Heres also hoping the club benefitted more financially from this Hummel deal on the kit than we did with Sondico because this new kit is very poor in comparison.  Only saving grace is tangerine as swat kit but first viewing isn’t great.

33 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

So a joint is talking about isnt it?

 

Their may well be legal ramifications about what was said in the meeting. In which case taking your time to choose your words regarding any public statement is the best option. Lets just wait and see what that statement says first.

Why legal ramifications?  If the Trust asked the Clown is he skint and he says he is then it’s from the horses mouth so if we repeat that statement then we’re not culpable.

Agreeing a joint statement implies that there’s some censorship of the content of that meeting to the fans - why?  If the legal implications are around proceedings against Corney (purely as a example) then why not say that and not expand.  Us fellow fans are rational to accept that some detail cannot be released.

1 hour ago, underdog said:

Morning everyone....not pretty yesterday at all footywise

 

Okay let me summarise Friday meeting.

 

The meeting was not arranged by the Trust, it was arranged by the club/chairman, we were asked that as many Trust directors could attend as possible. Some could not attend because of the time of day, short notice period.

 

I asked for an agenda or some idea why we were asked to attend, well if you are attending a meeting (verbally it was said meeting not chat ect)....you want to know what your are going there to discuss, do you need to bring anything with you, even who else was going to be there (we knew the chairman would be).

Personally for me, having some idea what I am going to a meeting about/who i am to meet sets the tone of how I dress ...formal/informal.....I know silly but that is me. I got no answer back from the club.

 

So we "presumed" it would be about the recent fan letter and that is what we agreed, would be our focus on if it was and how fans, club, chairman and Trust can move forward together and a joint statement will be coming out next week.

 

Thanks for your patience.

 

 

 

 

Ahead of this joint statement, please could you answer if it did indeed answer the questions in your letter or not?  Also, as a result of the meeting, are those Trust attendees happier or not regarding the immediate and longer term future of the club?

None of the above would compromise any NDA.

I’m a tad mystified that the Trust, acting on behalf of fans questions, now has to agree a joint statement with the owner.  I’m not suggesting us against them but why is this now a ‘joint’ statement - I want your view not one that’s been mutually agreed before issue.

16 minutes ago, Ritchierich said:

I don’t thInk he’s a penny pincher, I just don’t thinj he has any more money

different shit, same problem 

Well I hope he swallows his pride and realises he needs to sell or find a backer to support him.  He came with so much promise of being this Dubai-based super-agent wining and dining Seedorf, Deko etc and hobnobbing with the oil-rich, football-loving billionaires.  Trust us to end up with a selfie-obsessed super-fan who’s only real clientele is from basement leagues and the closet he got to Sheikh Mansour and Al-Fahim was seeing them on Sky at a City game.

13 minutes ago, oafc1955 said:

All it takes is for AL to come out with a positive statement regarding his intentions for next season.

 

Just honest an statement of where we are and where we’re heading could make all the difference.

 

His late answer to the trust letter was just lip service and didn’t really tell us anything.

He needs to voluntarily meet and engage with the trust ASAP.  

 

He is in a foreign country trying to run a football club virtually on his own, he needs to assemble an experienced U.K. based board of directors who can advise and help run things efficiently when he’s not there.

 

We are at a critical point as regards planning for next season. In Pete Wild we have a manager fans can relate with and as yesterday shows, a team that is finally playing for the shirt!

 

An extension to the ST offer would be a good start along with a rallying call to the fans.

 

I haven’t renewed as yet but that’s all it would take for me to change my mind.

Spot on.  

Commitment early on in pre-season; secure Clarke & Maouche on contracts and get Lang back for a second season.  Surridge back too would be great.  

Engage with the Trust so we get some guarantees that off-field is improving.

Extend the ST discount for a further month or so and really engage with the fans in respect of weekly updates.

Despite the position being irrecoverable a few weeks ago, Lemsagam now has an opportunity to change fans opinion off the back of a promising end to this season 

1 hour ago, Frankly Mr Shankly said:

 

The best atmosphere I've ever experienced in any match. It was like a tinderbox that night. So tense.

I sat on the tube on way home thinking that we’d automatically go up next season...especially when Chris Moore was telling everyone in the pub beforehand that he’s going nowhere and ready to pump more in and push us on

4 hours ago, Bristolatic said:

1-0 win at West Ham in the League Cup. Won it with a Corrazin header. Was worried about coming out with all the WHU fans, but the ones we walked out with were great. Then found out they'd shut the tube station and had to walk miles to another one. Was living in Bath at the time and was booked on the last National Express back. Made it to Victoria, extremely breathless, with about 2 minutes to spare. Happy days.

Great night that.  Only one entrance was open before the game until they realised how many of us was queuing.  Carlos header then the tube shut.   Two of us also walked miles as we didn’t have a clue where next tube was.  Just walked towards the city centre until we flagged down a taxi.  

QPR away (play-off semi) was a great atmosphere despite result.  

September 2002 and Wjnhard filling his boots... how far our club has fallen.  

Granted it was under Moore era and before we went into administration but we’ve had success against them since - notably in the FA Cup replay under Johnson.

We’re at our lowest.... I’m an atheist but even I’m now praying that something positive happens in the summer.  Hopefully the peace talks with the Trust triggers the Clown to spout “Fuck me, you’re right.  Life savings exhausted but I have a family member/mate/anybody who’s got a fair few million.”

4 hours ago, Andy b said:

Around the 300 mark. Not close to where we need to be but a significant increase on where we were at the beginning of the season. 

 

Our short term aim is for four figures. 

How many ST holders over 16 are they?  2000?

Just over 10% of that number in the Trust is very concerning and hopefully doesn’t reflect an ignorance of our fan base towards the current ownership and risk to our future.

Appreciate most just want to watch matches regardless of who’s in charge and who’s fielded but 10%?!   

Do you reckon they’ll allow me to join the FB group?

F**k me, I didn’t think my post would cause so much grief but I’m glad it’s rattled their cage.  I cannot believe this bloke has the audacity to allege the Trust is crooked over my harmless comments.... it was my own personal view to prompt a reaction that is not only needed but long overdue.

Just to clarify; I’m not a representative of the Trust but a very frustrated fan who is even more disgusted over the Clown’s contempt of not only our fans but the Trust who represents the fans.  I pay to attend matches and poured tens of thousands into the club over the years so I trust (excuse the pun) that allows me a say and to vent my frustration.... my OWN opinion and NOT that of The Trust!

It’s taken days after a very lenient deadline set by the Trust to receive his reply and this latest reply from the Clown demonstrates even more contempt to us fans.  No detail around “his plans”, no clear commitment on his part, no addressing of our immediate concerns or answering to our questions but an even more worrying suggestion that the budget will be slashed even further next season.  The Clown is taking the club even further backwards and expected us fans to blindly buy STs in return for uncertainty, absence of ambition, meddling (Scholes has placed on record that The Clown dictated recruitment & selection - you going to sue him Lemsagam, eh?) and no evidence of what debts he inherited, what’s he paid out and what is future plans exactly are.

I’ll quiet down now and leave the Trust to decide next steps following the club’s “response”

5 hours ago, kowenicki said:

 

Winding up order against the club to force payment. 

 

So the fans will have to take the risk of putting the club in admin or, more likely, liquidation.  We don’t have the assets or income to fund admin, so it’s liquidation and a new club in the 9th tier I think. 

Do you think it’ll get that far?  Perhaps we’ll know more once the buyers of the stadium and land are identified but if they’re fans then a deal could be brokered if they’re one of the main creditors?  Buy the club back and hopefully greater transparency to fund a team within our means.  Remain in League 2 and work tirelessly for investment, sponsorship, benevolence

When The Clown is forced to disclose his accounts, hopefully we have one or two fans who have the accountancy knowledge to analyse the books and clarify exactly what debt there is.  I personally think he’s bullshitting us over the debts and it’s more a case of his inability to fund any of the running costs no matter how small. 

Smoke the Clown out.....

1. Fan-led consortium buys the ground and hikes up the rent

2. Boycott all home games and not buy season tickets 

3. No income from point 2 will expose whether the Clown can fund the club on his own, which at the moment is highly unlikely

4. Players strike if not paid and creditors force club into administration - of which the (new) stadium owners will be a major creditor 

5. Force the Clown to sell at a loss or to hand over to the major creditor

We still do not know what the debts were when he acquired the club and what they are now.  Deferring the release of company accounts has set the alarm bell ringing.  Debts may not be great but if this Clown is potless then it could be minimal. 

Yes theres no guarantees of someone else coming forward but if the fan-led consortium owns the ground then funding a team after administration regardless of the league is viable.