PhilStarbucksSilkySkills

That just proves you are a bigot. You simply cannot see this through the eyes of a different culture. Instead you impose your own culture on them and expect them to comply.

So, i'm a bigot merely because I think that another culture is wrong for being insulted by something so trivial. And you are such an unbelievable tard that you think that myself not wanting them to impose their culture on us equates to imposing my culture on them.

As for your revision of my analogy, it's kind of hypothetical because I have more decency and sense than to launch an unprovoked attack upon a group of people who just happen to be different to me.

You completely miss the point AGAIN.

IF (try this on for a minute) you or others were inclined to call Leeds fans sheep shaggers on this board, would you stop under the knowledge that doing it again could cause you actual bodily harm. Would you give in to the threat of violence? Or would you stand up against it.

Within comedy I think there is humour most will accept (Terry Wogan) and comedy which cause repulsion (Bernard Manning)...

 

I would say if we are comparing drawings to comedy... You are operating closer to the Manning side of the argument than the Wogan side...

:lol: :lol: :lol:. Even Terry Wogan will have knowingly offended people with his comments.

I wouldn't compare this to Bernard Manning. More like Marcus Brigstocke. But the question is, are comedians being childish when they write material they know will offend some people?

To what.... The idiots drawing picture to offend billions or to the idiots screaming blue murder at them ? or the idiot that killed the guy ?

Please read the comment that you made for the answer to that. You were the one who claimed that the wrong approach was being taken here. I want to know what yours would be.

Drawing naughty pictures which you know will offend a lot of people. Now if that is not childish then I do not know what is.

 

Meanwhile... Much more serious issues go on effecting people every day while you are drawing your pictures fuelling the silliness...

 

My only point is that your approach to this is childish... I never said it was not an issue... Its just not as big of an issue as you claim it is...

1)Comedians every day do things that they know will offend some people (such is the nature of comedy). Are they childish?

2)So what would your appraoch be? (assuming you cared)

Talking about oppression, what's your views on Sharia Law.

Not exactly a fan

You seem to be demanding the freedom to heinously insult 2 billion people, and then express deep shock and act the victim when a tiny handful of extremists respond violently.

 

Tell you what, first Leeds home game next season why don't you go to Elland Rd with a loud hailer, stand in the middle and call them all a bunch of sheep sh*gging scum, then see the consequences of your "freedom of speech". Many will ignore you, many will shout at you, and I predict a handful, half a dozen maybe, will manage to reach the middle of the pitch and hospitalise you.

 

Is there any difference?

Heinously insult?

Any violent reaction by them would be an overreaction of course.

But here's the main difference. One is in person. The other is not. One is far more up front, and a personal attack. The other is not.

Let me throw this question back at you. If you and others posted on this message board that Leeds fans were "sheep shagging scum", would you be prepared to shut up when Leeds fans retaliated with death threats and some of the board members started being hospitalised or killed?

Yet, he lives and his books is still available, so his freedom to speak is being upheld ?

His freedom of speech came at the expense of the fatwa against him. That was the trade off. An unacceptable one.

Freedom of speech is a big issue...

It is better highlighted and tackled by other methods than the ones you have put forward... Which have been childish, insulting and dam right ineffective to bring about any resolution to the issues we face.

It was a message of solidarity. Noone expected a full resolution.

I've said all I can say on this. Again I find your perspective overwhelmingly short sighted, to continually brush it off off as childish. It is childishness we are standing up against.

Go on then... Link mad insulting cartoonists to Cancer ... This should be fun....

I was giving you an analogy of your argument. I should have known it wouldn't understand it. Someone else explain it to him. If I wanted to take the role of a kindergarten teacher I would trained to be one.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Satanic-Verses-Sal...e/dp/0963270702

 

Funny I can still buy it... But aren't we under attack ?

He has been. For 21 years.

Make your mind up. Are you denying that Freedom is speech is under attack or that it isn't a big enough issue compared to other things.

WTF ?

Really slow

What a staggering lack of perspective you must have to consider it the single most important attack on freedom of speech.

 

And then to have the sheer impudence to list Salman Rushdie amongst your bloody cartoonists.

FFS

The attack on free speech is that of people being silenced with violence. The same as many of your examples.

And I didn't list Salman Rushdie as a cartoonist. When did I say the problem was only about cartoons? For the record neither are Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Theo Van Gogh cartoonists.

You seem to of highlighted exactly what I was saying Isolated incidents... While others have shown much larger, wider and important attacks upon freedom of speech etc from people actually in a position to have impact upon the masses.

I suppose because they are "isolated incidents" then its not so much of a big deal then. I'm sure if we all bury our heads in the sand then the problem will go away.

It's like saying that because there's people dying of cancer in the UK, then we shouldn't be worried about AIDS.

Are there 1.2 billion of them?

 

How about the number of foreign national muslims currently held indefinitely in jail in the US and UK under vague (too vague to actually bring any charges) suspicion of being "involved in terrorism" ?

 

I bet there's more of them than there are cartoonists wishing they'd not been drawn into this ridiculous nutter-bating.

What a staggeringly myopic perspective one must have to shrug this off as "ridiculous nutter-bating".

And that shows what exactly ?

A bit slow aren't you oafc?

Ever thought Phil you are monumentally overreacting to a very isolated incident

Holy :censored: oafc. You amaze me sometimes.

Vilks arson suspects remanded into custody

Fearing for his life, the cartoonist Kurt Westergaard has been forced into hiding

Ayaan Hirsi Ali: My life under a fatwa

Iranian leader upholds Rushdie fatwa

South Park censored after threat of fatwa over Muhammad episode

Do you want more?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Economy_Act_2010

Yep another humdinger. There's way too many ftards in power.

In China, 1.2 billion people live in conditions of constant, invasive government oppression.

 

In Russia, people live in constant fear of somehow 'upsetting' the criminal gangs that dominate the economy.

 

In the UK, people can be detained without charge for a month or more under anti-terrorism legislation and are afraid of saying what they think for fear of being charged with inciting racial and religious hatred. Worse still, people can be imprisoned indefinitely, charged with acts of terrorism, by doing no more than downloading information about how to make a bomb from the internet.

 

To me, they are a tad more significant than the persecution of a handful of cartoonists by an extreme minority.

Great. I'm against those too. They don't make this particular issue any less worth fighting for though.

Insult even more people in the good name of free speech it would seem.... You know, make a real point of it... See if we can even get the most liberal of muslims fired up..

NO muslim who would be all that fired up by a picture of a 1500 year old man could ever be described as liberal.

I suggest we do nothing, let the police handle it, and we all go on trying to get along and let the police deal with the nutters amongst us.

I'm not going to go over this again with you. If you think all it will take to stand up to these people, and the cowards who give in to their barbarian demands, is the police, then good look to you. You live in a very simplistic world.

It's very wrong, on all kinds of levels. But I'm not entirely sure what you want me to do about it.

I didn't ask you to do anything about it, I merely provided the relevant link.

But your attitude has been that there are bigger problems facing free speech. I'd still like to know what they are.

And?

Garcon, What do you mean "and"?

Someone getting killed for daring to insult a belief system doesn't bother you then?

And while you all joke, yes he was related to Vincent Van Gogh.

I'm exercising my freedom to not particularly give a toss on this specific issue.

 

There are far more pressing threats to the freedom of speech than not being able to create an image of a diety you don't believe in.

Well I and millions of others do give a toss. And I see no bigger threat to freedom of speech than violence, and the people who censor artists under that threat.

I bet you don't even know who those people I mentioned are do you?

Do you know even who Theo Van Gogh is (or was)?

It's interesting that PhilStarbucksSilkyScarf is apparently demanding that free speech must be defended his way.

My way?

This attack on free speech or free expression can only be defended by refusing to be silenced or neutered by the f------ who think that free speech ends where an answer of violence or the threat of violence begin.

If you have a better way to deal this problem, I'd love to hear it.

The fact is that some people have repeatedly demonstrated remarkable and violent hypocrisy when it comes to free speech. They demand that their views be respected by everyone else in society - and anyone who offends them may well suffer a violent response.

There is no right to not be offended. There is no right to impose your ignorance, fears and superstitions on the rest of society.

This is not only about free speech, it's valid social commentary and a serious issue. There are people who travel with bodyguards and live under constant threat of violence or death for exercising basic freedoms that we should all support. People like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie and Lars Vilks. When more of us stand up and be counted on this matter then the target becomes that much larger, and suddenly these scapegoats are no longer standing on their own. It is also sending out a message to the cowards from the media outlets who censor artists or issue apologies for fear of violent repercussions.

We started talking about the coalition and not the election you spanner

 

There are so many better examples of the attack on freedom of speech other than a couple of anti religious pilliocks wanting to offend millions and draw pictures... Its fecking childish... And the fact the guy won't move on even after the debate had finished and the "protest" date has passed tells me a lot...

 

But anyway... I need to go dress the baby

I did move on. I just informed people that the site was back up.

And I think it is feckin childish that someone like yourself thinks that the battle for Freedom of Speech is a something that deserves to be dropped, or that can be better protested than by doing something completely different from the very thing that people are being threatened or killed over. (ie insult someone's cherished beliefs and cause........wait for it........OFFENCE (gasp!!)

So this tells me a lot. It tells me that you have no idea what is going on the world, or that your moral compass is horribly skewed.

Considering its the 22nd May isn't it time to move on?

Yes. Because afterall, people only care about freedom of speech one day a year.

Just addin my two cents to the thread innit, I ain't any religion.

And I don't have a favourite beer, or a favourite Spice Girl (hang on....come to think of it I liked Baby)

Back to the subject at hand. The "Everybody Draw Mohammed" Facebook page is back up.