PhilStarbucksSilkySkills

 

At least you know what it is like to be a Christian now

I used to be one. My mother is a vicar. My father worked in the church. I grew out of it.

p.s most people know that there are thousands of differents sects Christianity and that you all claim different beliefs. I'm not sure why you are feeling misunderstood.

Just holding that mirror up again... People don't like that...

People don't like it when you mischaracterise their position. You have read my constant refutations on this subject and yet you still insist on parrotting this BS about us seeking to cause offence. Sing a new tune, because this one is getting old.

Was it being compassionate when people started seeking to offend a lot of people ?

That old chesnut again. You never learn do you?

You think Christianity offers clear rules that I can just blindly follow

 

You don't understand Christians :P

 

Look at the debate within the church on issues of homosexuality, abortion and such like... While some people think every Christian is homophobic and we all think we have the world sorted, the reality is VERY different...

 

Most these opinions come from a lack of understanding or exposure to only a narrow spectrum of the faith...

No I don't. You did when you claimed that religion offered a moral compass.

I actually said "You only get yours from the bible by cherry picking the verses you agree with anyway"

I don't think you get your morals from your religion at all. In fact I'd be concerned for you if you did.

Some of your language presumes a lot... It puts a lot of words into peoples mouths...

 

I also never said my system was better. Science offers no moral compass. It cannot be compared to religion. They are two separate things and they are not mutually exclusive.

 

You are clearly a passionate atheists... You have made your mind up. I respect that.

Why do you need an externally bestowed moral compass? Why can't you make your own mind up? You only get yours from the bible by cherry picking the verses you agree with anyway. So why can't you admit that you do have your own moral compass?

By the way, why does it matter? Why is "it offers a moral compass" an important stance to take when you are asking the question are gods real? The claim of the existance of deities is either acurate or not.

Just its very questionable why 50% of your posts have been based around this sensitive subject matter and...

 

Feel free to keep posting if you are an Oldham fan I just found it strange...

I prefer sensitive subjects to trivial ones. I love football, but its difficult to say anything original about it.

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41 posts... From Stockport... Are you even an Oldham fan ?

What the does that have to do with it? Yes I am an Oldham fan. Born and bred.

It does, that argument is confusing association with causation.

Indeed. It's confusing "is" with "ought".

Science tells us the way things are. It's says nothing about what we should do with that knowledge. Blaming the Nuclear Bomb on science is pretty pathetic. What we do with technology and discovery is up to groups and individuals to work out.

Let's not forget that without science we wouldn't be having this conversation. We wouldn't have a roof over our head. We might not even beable to afford food. Science is progress.

Scary suggestion

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmWBY283o5s

 

Science is a good thing. It helps us grow. But it gives no moral guidance.

:lol:

You need moral guidance do you oafc0000?

And you think religion is necessary to provide it?

Are there many christians on here ?

 

I don't particularly like it to be frank but I can recognise humour personally... I don't actually think South Park set out to offend, they set out to take the piss...

They were taking the piss out of people who take themselves and their religion too seriously. So much so that they feel they can impose it on others. They were taking the piss out of the people who censor themselves out of fear. There is no difference between the sentiments of south park and the sentiments of those who support "draw mohammed day". It is not about causing offence, it is about showing that we are free to do something that might make them take offence, in spite of the threats. We are showing that intimidation will not work.

You set out to offend... but its ok because it was in the name of freedom of speech ?

You still don't get it do you? Have you seen the Skepchick video? Did you watch the AronRa video all the way through? Their views are exactly my views on this whole "draw mohammed day" thing. Are they looking to cause offence too, or are you just picking on me?

I think people should have the freedom to worship without prejudice...

Am I, or anyone else who supports this day stopping anyone from worshipping whatever invisible man they want?

I don't think its ok to use some of the small examples of when religious people go OTT to justify basically bullying the masses... Turn the other cheek... Plenty of religious people do that as well..

Who's bullying the masses? As I already told you, most muslims aren't going to care about this, so obviously we are not targetting masses. It's the ones that do care that need to get over themselves, and realise that we live in a civilised society where sticks and stones may break my bones but words (or cartoons) will never hurt me.

In nut shell. If you are going to get upset by something so mundane then you deserve to be upset by this. And you deserve to be ridiculed for doing so. But either way noone can tell me or any other freedom loving person who I can or cannot ridicule, satirise, critisise or draw.

Those 'merkin right wing christians of the southern states soon get upset if you draw Jesus as he almost certainly was - i.e. as a dark skinned, dark haired Arab, rather than a light skinned, blond haired arian.

I've never heard of anyone coming close to harm over such a depiction though.

Besides, South Park showed Jebus doing internet porn in the same episode as the faux mohammed in the bear costume. I didn't hear a peep from anyone about that.

I'd also like to see how many people would join in if it was Jesus or the Christian God being satirised on TV and then they had a draw Jesus day.

Noone would care if people drew Jebus. I've certainly never heard of a christian threatening violence over the depiction of Jebus. So draw Jebus day (or satirise Jebus day) would be somewhat pointless if we are already free to do it (if we wanted) without needing to look over our shoulders.

If of course Christians happened to be getting as hysterical as the minority of muslims are now, and threatening or committing violence, then of course people would be joining in on "draw jebus day". I actually expect more people would, since we are so much more surrounded by Christians.

I think you should tell that to the OP

Are you kidding me??

Sure yeah right. Glad you set my mind at rest there. I was labouring under the opinion that it was actually all about your right to provoke and insult whom you choose for whatever reason you choose when you choose.

That IS what free speech is about. Offence is taken not given. And it is entirely subjective. Nothing is above criticism or ridicule. I have the right to say what I want and you have the right to ignore or aviod it.

It's heartening that its just pure coincidence that you're choosing a religion whose adherents generally have a darker skin tone than your anglo-saxon standard. I suggest you put your crayons down (not before teacher says you can, mind), follow your principles to their obvious conclusion, and join the racially pure Lib Dems.

Pathetic! Such an ignorant and intellectually dishonest statement. Go ahead and label me a racist even though I have said nothing to indicate that I am.

People like you make me sick.

I never mentioned race...

 

I just pointed out how childish your stance was...

Unsuccesfully. You just chose not to take my word for it that this is about free speech and nothing else. Free speech is a principle that I hold very dear.

For the record, in case you do follow the more right-wing stance within this argument, she's also very much opposed to the racial/immigration undertones of the debate (especially as she's an American living in the UK).

I don't. I don't think I have said anything that could indicate I do either (in spite of oafc0000's constant strawman arguments). This has got NOTHING to do with race. It doesn't really have anything to do with religion either. I would be just as annoyed if it was a politically motivated group or individuals threatening violence over cartoons.

For the record I'm a libertarian (ie social liberal) and slightly right wing (right wing refers to economic policy), not a fascist right winger.

I prefer the Skepchick version:

That works for me too

This is what my drawing of mohammed looks like for those who were curious:

A video that echoes my views on this beautifully:

Who is sympathising with these people anyway ?... Who are you accusing ?

Look in the mirror. There's one of "those people" right there. You know, the pacifist, politically correct, turn the other cheek type that seek to pacify the minority by restricting the freedoms of the rest of us. There's all too many of you in political power.

Ok, I'm done with this topic unless anyone else has something constructive to say.

As far as OAFC0000 goes, he just seems intent on calling me names and asserting over and over again that I (and assumedly the millions around the world who are supporting this day) are being being offensive for the sake of it. This he asserts in spite of my constant refutations. I've got more important things to worry about than one man's lack of logic and reasoning skills. Some people are so hopelessly convinced that no argument can sway them.

It's up to you folks, draw a cartoon of a long dead pedophile or don't. We live in a free world (for the most part).

So show me this massive attack upon the UK citizens right to freedom of speech from a couple of hundred people in pakistan burning stuff

 

Show me why I should be so very worried

What makes you think this is just about the UK?

This isn't about why you should be worried, this about is about standing by the people who have been killed by extremists or live their life under constant threat of violence from people who think "offence" is justification for the death penalty.

It's also about protesting the people in society (muslim and non muslim alike) who sympathise with these people OR those who think saving people from being "offended" is sufficient justification for censorship.

So in your normal day to day life you find yourself needing to draw Muhammad ?

No. But I will not be told by someone under violent protest that I can't. Do you get it yet?

Phone the police and run the other way as quick as I can!

Will it stop you eating cheese just because it offends his sensibilities or because he made a threat?

Offend away... but don't try to cover it up by saying I am fighting the battle for the freedom of speech, as if to give it some sort of moral rightness ... You are just being a cock and looking to offend someone...

You haven't been listening. You're so determined to show that I am supporting this cause out of spite and not standing up for the rights of myself or others. Calling me a cock only looking to cause offence, doesn't make it so.

Don't worry mate, I see bullies like you all the time...

 

Creating fear out of nothing to sell your own dogma...

Fear out of nothing? Get your head out the hand and do some research. I've already given you examples to google.

And what's my dogma, Einstein?